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Horns/Brass sounds
Old 4th July 2019
  #1
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Horns/Brass sounds

Hi all, I am currently working on this track and I am feeling a bit iffy about the sound of the horn section. I have used logic pro horns and tried to replace them with EastWest Hollywood Brass samples, but I kept having issues with it so I wanted to ask what you guys think of the sound as it is. Personally, I don't hate the way it sounds but obviously I don't want it to draw negativity should I release the song. I really can't afford to buy anything new right now, so do you think there's any way to make logic sounds sound better?
Attached Files

BB Horns demo .mp3 (1.40 MB, 714 views)

Old 4th July 2019
  #2
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atma's Avatar
Well, since I can't hear it, I'd have to simply state that the general rule for me is that if something sounds or feels even a little bit "off", then it needs to be fixed or altered in some way. Always trust your gut instinct. Brass/horns in general are pretty difficult to fake in a realistic manner. Hire some kids from a local high school jazz band to record the part for you.
Old 4th July 2019
  #3
Gear Head
 

What atma said plus if you going for authentic theres slot of reverb compression eq tricks you have to use to fake it right but since we cant hear it we cant help you
Old 5th July 2019
  #4
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@ atma @ DJ T Havoc

Sorry, I thought I had uploaded the audio. Please give a listen when you have a minute.
Old 5th July 2019
  #5
Gear Head
 

So are you going for a more realistic sound and if so are you trying to go boisterous or mannie fresh NO French quarter fun ?I'm asking because intention is a big part the best beats speak for themselves
Old 6th July 2019
  #6
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atma's Avatar
Yeah, no. At least in the first section of the song, the horns definitely sound "off". That being said, I'd say it's somewhat more related to composition than the actual sound of the horns, though the specific sound of them is highly unrealistic. To honestly get a realistic horn section, you genuinely need to have some kind of background in music theory—particulary arrangements for classical instruments (or jazz).

Just personally, I would drop trying to use synthetic versions of those types of instruments and replace them with something else—subtractive synthesizers, or any kind of really good multi-sampled instrument (some of the Sonic Couture Kontakt instruments come to mind). At this point in time, the tech related to recreating very authentic sounding acoustic instruments (some much more than others) via software isn't quite there, however, a huge part of it has to do with understanding how certain types of instruments (like horn sections) are traditionally arranged and performed. If you don't have that specific knowledge, then it's simply going to sound synthetic and like it was created inside a computer (which is something you don't want!).

I do think you have a knack for perhaps more interesting compositional styles, but I would definitely take some time to learn the actual music theory behind it in order to make it sound legit.
Old 6th July 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ T Havoc View Post
So are you going for a more realistic sound and if so are you trying to go boisterous or mannie fresh NO French quarter fun ?I'm asking because intention is a big part the best beats speak for themselves
I didn't intend for them to come of as real, I was just wondering how "bad" they sounded in their current sample form. I'm not particularly familiar with Mannie Fresh's work but from what I've heard that's not really what I'm going for. I'm going more for boisterous.
Old 6th July 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Yeah, no. At least in the first section of the song, the horns definitely sound "off". That being said, I'd say it's somewhat more related to composition than the actual sound of the horns, though the specific sound of them is highly unrealistic. To honestly get a realistic horn section, you genuinely need to have some kind of background in music theory—particulary arrangements for classical instruments (or jazz).

Just personally, I would drop trying to use synthetic versions of those types of instruments and replace them with something else—subtractive synthesizers, or any kind of really good multi-sampled instrument (some of the Sonic Couture Kontakt instruments come to mind). At this point in time, the tech related to recreating very authentic sounding acoustic instruments (some much more than others) via software isn't quite there, however, a huge part of it has to do with understanding how certain types of instruments (like horn sections) are traditionally arranged and performed. If you don't have that specific knowledge, then it's simply going to sound synthetic and like it was created inside a computer (which is something you don't want!).

I do think you have a knack for perhaps more interesting compositional styles, but I would definitely take some time to learn the actual music theory behind it in order to make it sound legit.
Okay, thanks for your time and your feedback. I don't think I'll scrap horns because they just carry the energy I want but I'll definitely look more into arranging them. Thanks again.
Old 7th July 2019
  #9
Gear Head
 

Sounds like you need to find a real horn section and chop some stabs out of it. You can go sample cd ( big fish has some workable downloads for cheap) or operate on a late 70s early 80s disco funk record ( earth wind and fire , brass construction and look and the gang ). If you ain't comfortable with that or dont think you.gonna get away with it but still want to sample another record theres tracklib.com. you can get some good stuff from them as low as $50
Old 8th July 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ T Havoc View Post
Sounds like you need to find a real horn section and chop some stabs out of it. You can go sample cd ( big fish has some workable downloads for cheap) or operate on a late 70s early 80s disco funk record ( earth wind and fire , brass construction and look and the gang ). If you ain't comfortable with that or dont think you.gonna get away with it but still want to sample another record theres tracklib.com. you can get some good stuff from them as low as $50
Okay, thanks for the tips. I'll check out tracklib.
Old 9th July 2019
  #11
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atma's Avatar
It might help if I knew what style/sound you're looking to achieve if you have any artists/tracks you can share.
Old 9th July 2019
  #12
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The problem is the arrangement
Old 9th July 2019
  #13
Gear Addict
 
amanitas's Avatar
Yeah fake horns are pretty much always trash. Samples can be cool if you want to build around them and you don't have clearance issues, but if you have intricate melody lines in mind, it can be really hard to chop a sample in a way that sounds natural. Always better to hire someone who can record the parts you want with the right vibe and feel. BTW that happens to be what I do for a living, so hit me up if you want to get this done by a pro ;-)
Old 10th July 2019
  #14
Gear Addict
 
skoolafish's Avatar
with what you have here, I would turn that one lower octave horn down some, add some high midrange to all of it, compress a lot, saturate a tiny bit, then reverb. maybe nudge them back and forth really slightly off the grid for human-ness

it doesn't sound bad what you have, just gotta wrestle with it some more

I have a joint with some brass, I think it was reason patch. I remember it took me days to make it sound right. not super realistic but close enough
https://youtu.be/46jpjTJyhAQ
@1:11
Old 10th July 2019
  #15
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Also maybe try horns hits with shorter release, maybe add a bit of delay too

See :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDOH3ViMmCM
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Deleted a0734df
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plug9 View Post
Hi all, I am currently working on this track and I am feeling a bit iffy about the sound of the horn section. I have used logic pro horns and tried to replace them with EastWest Hollywood Brass samples, but I kept having issues with it so I wanted to ask what you guys think of the sound as it is. Personally, I don't hate the way it sounds but obviously I don't want it to draw negativity should I release the song. I really can't afford to buy anything new right now, so do you think there's any way to make logic sounds sound better?
Out of curiosity... What is thiz beat for?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plug9 View Post
Hi all, I am currently working on this track and I am feeling a bit iffy about the sound of the horn section. I have used logic pro horns and tried to replace them with EastWest Hollywood Brass samples, but I kept having issues with it so I wanted to ask what you guys think of the sound as it is. Personally, I don't hate the way it sounds but obviously I don't want it to draw negativity should I release the song. I really can't afford to buy anything new right now, so do you think there's any way to make logic sounds sound better?
Second half of beat sounds nice with the horns in the background.

Beginning Solo though does highlight the fact the horns sound fake.

I would think either layering them with other horns can thicken them or even add more percussion and tuck them a little more so they blend better.

Also try playing them with less quantize. A 100% perfect timed horn section easily gives away the fake horns. Even the tightest of horn sections have slight timing imperfections which helps them sound real and can actually help thicken the sound sort of like double tracked rap. Many times fake sounds in the background can actually fool the listener, but when you make them solo can highlight the fakeness.
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