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Boom Bap / LoFi Plugins?
Old 28th December 2019
  #61
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post
Which ones are your favourite bitcrushers, atma? Mine are Decimort 2 and TAL-DAC. With those two you can get very close to the sounds of most of the vintage Eighties samplers.

https://d16.pl/decimort2
https://tal-software.com/products/tal-dac
The Tal-Dac is super cool, and I honestly LOVE the RX950 (often I don't even use it as a bit-crusher, but simply for its fantastic overdrive/saturation). Otherwise, at this point I tend to just send things out to my various hardware samplers—the Akai S1000 is likely my favorite, particularly for its input preamp saturation and its detuning interpolation algorithm, which sounds incredible. I also use the Yamaha TX16W, which is fantastically crunchy, as well as the Roland S550, which has a very uniquely smooth, vintage tone to it. All of those samplers are fairly dirt-cheap these days, and it's not much of a hassle to simply send a track from your DAW into one of them, and then back out to your DAW.
Old 28th December 2019
  #62
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
The Tal-Dac is super cool, and I honestly LOVE the RX950 (often I don't even use it as a bit-crusher, but simply for its fantastic overdrive/saturation).
RX950 sure is nice, but imo you can make Decimort 2 sound nearly indistinguishable apart from the filter. That filter is the reason why I decided to keep it. Unfortunately the RX950's bit rate reduction can't adjusted, so there's always some bitcrushing going on albeit 12 bit is not that noticable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Otherwise, at this point I tend to just send things out to my various hardware samplers—the Akai S1000 is likely my favorite, particularly for its input preamp saturation and its detuning interpolation algorithm, which sounds incredible.
One of the reasons TAL-DAC is one of my favourites is the four types of interpolation:

HOLD: A sample hold mode that produces aliasing at high frequencies.
VARIABLE: Variable resampling with minimal aliasing.
LINEAR: A common linear interpolation mode.
SINC 8: A sync 8 interpolation mode like it was used in the S1000.

I don't have an S1000 though. Does SINC 8 sound like it? Perhaps TAL-Sampler is better to test the detuning.

I haven't seen many other bitcrushers that offer several interpolations. Sonitex STX-1260 and Pixelator come to mind. Do you know others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
I also use the Yamaha TX16W, which is fantastically crunchy, as well as the Roland S550, which has a very uniquely smooth, vintage tone to it. All of those samplers are fairly dirt-cheap these days, and it's not much of a hassle to simply send a track from your DAW into one of them, and then back out to your DAW.
The TX16W and the Roland 12 bit samplers are going up in price too. Years ago I used to buy vintage samplers just to see what they were all about and then I'd sell them again. Now that they've become more expensive, that's something I no longer do. Plugins give me the vintage sound I like without the much hassle. Even ITB I don't like to resample.
Old 28th December 2019
  #63
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Rx950
Tal-dac (i suggest you to try driving these to a little hot, especially on drums)

Xln audio RC-20
Decimort
Plogue Chipcrusher (it has an Sp1200 emulation preset)

Of course the most important of all, is the workflow.
Samples from vinyl (or high quality vinyl rips, drum breaks etc.
Old 28th December 2019
  #64
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantineAb View Post
Rx950
Plogue Chipcrusher (it has an Sp1200 emulation preset)
Setting a bitcrusher to 26040 Hz and 12 bit doesn't automatically make it sound like the SP1200.

But Chipcrusher is a cool plugin. All those encodings are interesting, though only a few are useful to get a vintage sampler sound that people want for boom Bap.
Attached Thumbnails
Boom Bap / LoFi Plugins?-chipcrusher-sp1200.jpg  
Old 28th December 2019
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post
Setting a bitcrusher to 26040 Hz and 12 bit doesn't automatically make it sound like the SP1200.

But Chipcrusher is a cool plugin. All those encodings are interesting, though only a few are useful to get a vintage sampler sound that people want for boom Bap.
I think that tal-dac with the sp1200 preset (whitch you can tweak of course) sounds pretty close tho.

But 90% of that "boom bap" sound is all about the samples you chose, and the way you arrange them of course.

Chipcrusher is indeed very cool.

I have a question for all of you though.
What is the way that you prefer to use these (beatcrushing,downsampling etc) plugins?
On individual tracks, or on busses?
Old 28th December 2019
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantineAb View Post
I think that tal-dac with the sp1200 preset (whitch you can tweak of course) sounds pretty close tho.
Does your TAL-DAC come with an SP1200 preset? Or do you perhaps mean the EMU II preset? The two E-mu samplers I had (SP-12 Turbo and Emax) sounded similar (though not the same), so I assume other E-mu samplers of that era did too. Not sure which exact sampler is emulated by the EMU II preset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConstantineAb View Post
I have a question for all of you though.
What is the way that you prefer to use these (beatcrushing,downsampling etc) plugins?
On individual tracks, or on busses?
To save CPU (and time ) I send multiple tracks through the same plugin. But more realistic would be to use one plugin per sample to tweak the sound of each sample. For example as you mentioned driving the input, but you don't drive them all the same amount. Only how far do you want to go with this? How many bitcrush, tape, channel, console etc. plugins do you want to use to meticulously recreate the sound of an early Nineties Boom Bap recording? Or do you just want an overall feel reminiscent of that style?
Old 28th December 2019
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post
Does your TAL-DAC come with an SP1200 preset? Or do you perhaps mean the EMU II preset? The two E-mu samplers I had (SP-12 Turbo and Emax) sounded similar (though not the same), so I assume other E-mu samplers of that era did too. Not sure which exact sampler is emulated by the EMU II preset.



To save CPU (and time ) I send multiple tracks through the same plugin. But more realistic would be to use one plugin per sample to tweak the sound of each sample. For example as you mentioned driving the input, but you don't drive them all the same amount. Only how far do you want to go with this? How many bitcrush, tape, channel, console etc. plugins do you want to use to meticulously recreate the sound of an early Nineties Boom Bap recording? Or do you just want an overall feel reminiscent of that style?
I made a mistake about the sp1200 emulation, sorry :P , i meant the emuII
The ideal for me is to sound and feel as boom bap and east side hiphop in general (onyx for example)

Old school hardware samplers may be the real "key" for this of course, but i think that nowadays we can do a very good job with just a daw, and a bunch of plug-ins
Old 28th December 2019
  #68
Gear Nut
 

Bacdafucup, All We Got Iz Us, Shut 'Em Down... Three dope Onyx albums, each with its own sound. Not to mention other classic Nineties albums that also sound exactly the same. Different producers, different gear, different studios, different mixing engineers, etc. Meaning there's not just one Boom Bap sound. So yes, I agree we can do a convincing job ITB.
Old 28th December 2019
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post
Bacdafucup, All We Got Iz Us, Shut 'Em Down... Three dope Onyx albums, each with its own sound. Not to mention other classic Nineties albums that also sound exactly the same. Different producers, different gear, different studios, different mixing engineers, etc. Meaning there's not just one Boom Bap sound. So yes, I agree we can do a convincing job ITB.
Yeah definitely but they all have a very specific texture i cannot explain with words! I also like a lot the sound of bootcamp clique and nine stuff (Very underrated mc in my opinion)

I got an idea ! I could make a pretty basic boom bap beat (a sample, drums and a bass) and i could upload the unmixed channels of it, so anyone interested will be mixing and upload it here again with info about the tools-chain used etc.

If you think its a good idea let me know, and i will post it in a new thread!
Old 29th December 2019
  #70
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e-are's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted a0734df View Post
You can't emulate it. Dont be wack dude... Get real gear (sp1200, eps16, asr10, Casio fz1....) work like a real produce/beatmaker
For the most part,I do not agree with that statement.
Psycho Monkey posted a mix a little while ago that was itb and retro and sounding.

I've had several mpc's. 60, 1000, 2000. I also had a Roland s220 and have used sp1200's, eps16 and Akai s950's. I do agree, they are the sound of that era. I do know a couple cats that can pretty much emulate anything as long as their is a reference. Their not willing to share all their techniques but for the most part, they are completely itb. I have tons of outboard and they outdo my mixes.
It's the minds and hands, not necessarily the tools.
Old 29th December 2019
  #71
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post

I don't have an S1000 though. Does SINC 8 sound like it?
To be honest, the Tal S1000 emulation doesn't really sound like an actual s1000 (that's not to say it sounds BAD in any sense). I'm not exactly sure why—you would think the software code in the S1000 hardware would be somewhat easily re-creatable in a vst!

It might be fun to do an actual comparison using the same sample run through the Tal Dac and detuned, vs. the S1000 hardware, just to get an idea.
Old 29th December 2019
  #72
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
To be honest, the Tal S1000 emulation doesn't really sound like an actual s1000 (that's not to say it sounds BAD in any sense). I'm not exactly sure why—you would think the software code in the S1000 hardware would be somewhat easily re-creatable in a vst!
You'd have to ask Patrick of TAL Software if it was an easy job. These bitcrushers usually only emulate a part of the sound of vintage samplers. The detuning should be the same though as it uses the same interpolation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
It might be fun to do an actual comparison using the same sample run through the Tal Dac and detuned, vs. the S1000 hardware, just to get an idea.
If you use TAL-DAC, then for each detuning you should calculate the corresponding sample rate. Again it's probably better to use TAL-Sampler for this comparison.
Old 29th December 2019
  #73
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Sam an huel's Avatar
Having fun at the moment digging Analog Obsession SPpre: https://analogobsession.com/product/spre/
Old 30th December 2019
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post

If you use TAL-DAC, then for each detuning you should calculate the corresponding sample rate. Again it's probably better to use TAL-Sampler for this comparison.
exact. IMO the problem when using VSTfx plugins is that the samplerate won't change at different pitches/tuning cause the sample is played externally from either a sampler VSTi or just a channel of the DAW.
Using a VSTi that actually load the sample is a much better way of recreating the behaviour of vintage samplers if it has the ability to change interpolation methods.

Someone mentioned the samplerate converter of Waveosaur cause you can choose to convert without interpolation thats ok but again you need to do that for every pitch/tuning.

A suggestion for PlugIn developers: If you develop a LoFi FX plugin (without loading the sample) then you should implement MIDI to make it possible to change the samplerate depending on MIDI notes.

hmmm??? by writing this I just thought about if it is possible to do it yourself with routing MIDI to FX parameter in the DAW. Should be possible in Reaper. I will try it

peace
Old 30th December 2019
  #75
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Doesn’t Arturia CMI V supposedly change sample rate for each note?
Old 30th December 2019
  #76
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Ok, it's possible to route MIDI notes to any parameter of any VST (no matter if it's a VSTi or VSTfx) in Reaper.
Found this script that helps
https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/mus...is-script.html

You'll have to find and set the dependence between key and samplerate (playback rate) tho.

Surly somthing I will experiment with (not only with LoFi Plugins ) but in the end I won't change my usual workflow (when I'm ITB) which in most cases is: Don't even using a DAW but a Tracker (OpenModPlug Tracker) to create beats.
The concept is just like a Groovebox (MPC or similar). You load samples into the sample tab and edit them (trim, copy,paste, mono L,R or stereo, fade in/out) and sequence them in the pattern tab. Don't even need a MIDI keyboard cause you use the keyboard of the computer. You can change the interpoaltion (including no interpolation).
Each channel can only play 1 sample at a time which is the same behaviour as the outputs of the SP or the s950/s900.
You can set the resolution of the sequencer so it's easy to mimic the PPQ of the SP sequencer.


I wonder what non HipHop musicians thought when they heard th aliasing of the SP back then. I mean that sound is ugly when your intention is to have clean Pop/Rock drumsound.
peace
Old 30th December 2019
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
To be honest, the Tal S1000 emulation doesn't really sound like an actual s1000 (that's not to say it sounds BAD in any sense). I'm not exactly sure why—you would think the software code in the S1000 hardware would be somewhat easily re-creatable in a vst!

It might be fun to do an actual comparison using the same sample run through the Tal Dac and detuned, vs. the S1000 hardware, just to get an idea.
Apart from the old 'same code, should sound the same' rarely holding water as it always is more than just the code that you are hearing, I also very much doubt Patrick at TAL actually even had the exact same code as in the S1000 to hand......
Old 30th December 2019
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post
You'd have to ask Patrick of TAL Software if it was an easy job. These bitcrushers usually only emulate a part of the sound of vintage samplers. The detuning should be the same though as it uses the same interpolation.



If you use TAL-DAC, then for each detuning you should calculate the corresponding sample rate. Again it's probably better to use TAL-Sampler for this comparison.
I think the S1000 or SP-1200 work at constant sample rate. So changing sample rate to match the pitch on TAL-DAC will not get you the sound.

The detuning algorithm would have to be supported by a sampler that would be before TAL-DAC.
Old 30th December 2019
  #79
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cl516 View Post
Doesn’t Arturia CMI V supposedly change sample rate for each note?
CMI V is a sample player and unlike bitcrushers isn't an insert fx plugin to run your audio through. You'll have to load your samples into CMI V and trigger the samples by MIDI.

CMI V sounds great too btw if you're into heavy aliasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
I wonder what non HipHop musicians thought when they heard th aliasing of the SP back then. I mean that sound is ugly when your intention is to have clean Pop/Rock drumsound.
peace
If you don't pitch up/down, then the drums actually sound pretty good. Don't forget the SP-12 was meant to be a drum machine at first. And I'm sure mixing engineers did anything they could to make it sound as hifi as possible. I imagine total confusion and frustration in the studios when Hip Hop producers and non-Hip Hop mixing engineers had to work together.
Old 30th December 2019
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotuz2019 View Post
CMI V is a sample player and unlike bitcrushers isn't an insert fx plugin to run your audio through. You'll have to load your samples into CMI V and trigger the samples by MIDI.
But in a way isn’t that what we’re dancing around? I mean, much of the thread we’re mentioning certain insert fx that might mimic the older samplers in terms of sound. And some of those older machines mentioned don’t use constant sample rate. Interesting results can indeed be achieved if one loads in appropriate samples to CMI V. All good info going around. ?
Old 12th January 2020
  #81
They didn't use plugins back in the 90s. They use samplers that were low bit rate and resolution with recording limits.

There is no plugin that emulates the sound of old samplers better than the different sampler audio engine emulation modes in Maschine. I wrote a blog article on how to use it to get that old skool sampler sound here as well as the workflow you need to copy to get that sound here: https://currentsound.com/music-production/how-to-create-lo-fi-drums-and-recordings-in-a-daw/
Old 13th January 2020
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
They didn't use plugins back in the 90s. They use samplers that were low bit rate and resolution with recording limits.

There is no plugin that emulates the sound of old samplers better than the different sampler audio engine emulation modes in Maschine. I wrote a blog article on how to use it to get that old skool sampler sound here as well as the workflow you need to copy to get that sound here: https://currentsound.com/music-production/how-to-create-lo-fi-drums-and-recordings-in-a-daw/
quote from your article: The SP-1200 and MPC has low bit rates and sample rates

Bit Depth not Bit Rate

peace
Old 4 weeks ago
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
quote from your article: The SP-1200 and MPC has low bit rates and sample rates

Bit Depth not Bit Rate

peace
Thanks. Corrected.
Old 6 days ago
  #84
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Plugins I used before for this. Avid Lofi ( still haven't found a better one). J37 Tape. Izotope Vinyl. Kush Audio Omega N.
Old 6 days ago
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanDrive View Post
Avid Lofi ( still haven't found a better one).
I don't have an AAX host, but I'm still curious. What makes Avid Lofi so good?

Old 6 days ago
  #86
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It gives what you want without adding artifacts. You can make underwater sounds, saturated sounds, filtered sounds and its like only three controls you need to use. Basically it degrades the sample rate of the audio so what you do is you add it to your master for an older sound or you use it on individual tracks to give your samples, instruments different sonics. Sometimes after my mix in FL I slap it on in pro tools if I feel I need it. I recently used it on this usher sample it gave it a different feel, much warmer and grittier than the clean audio we're used to hearing nowadays
Old 5 days ago
  #87
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Audio Child's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanDrive View Post
It gives what you want without adding artifacts. You can make underwater sounds, saturated sounds, filtered sounds and its like only three controls you need to use. Basically it degrades the sample rate of the audio so what you do is you add it to your master for an older sound or you use it on individual tracks to give your samples, instruments different sonics. Sometimes after my mix in FL I slap it on in pro tools if I feel I need it. I recently used it on this usher sample it gave it a different feel, much warmer and grittier than the clean audio we're used to hearing nowadays
How about Air Lofi ?
Old 4 days ago
  #88
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Air Lofi doesn't sound as good as the stock Avid one. plugins can intend to do the same thing but sound different sonicly. Which in theory shouldn't make sense but is true the same way vintage outboard gear all sounds different from each other. I remember getting artifacts from Air Lofi.
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