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Contrasting Verse and Hook?
Old 16th June 2019
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Contrasting Verse and Hook?

Yo, whats good?

I noticed that in a lot of my beats the verse parts could be hooks too because they usually have a melody or melodic vibe.

They are not complex tho.

I can easily think of hook lyrics for the verse parts because of that... don't know if that's good or bad thing.

My music theory knowledge is not that deep yet (working on that.) but I read that instrument loops in verses usually end on dominant / unstable notes and hook loops end on tonic / stable notes.

Does anyone if this is true? Counter arguments maybe?

How do you contrast verse and hook?

Do you take out melodies during the verse (e.g. keep only chords & non melodic notes) or have one melody for verses and one for the hook?

Any music theory tricks you know of to help with hook & verse contrast?

Thanks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Addict
 

To be honest, we're in a whole different world music wise these days. If you listen to some of the biggest rap/hip-hop songs and pay attention to the beats you'll notice that many of them don't seem to have a hook at all and sometimes the beats don't even change.

My biggest piece of advice is to focus on the transition itself. There are a lot of music theory trends but that doesn't mean they are the right or wrong way. They're just a habit that have been circulated for decades. There are some music theory implications but I don't know music theory well enough to try and teach them. My point is that often all you really need is either a drum build up or a drum breakdown going into the chorus and an obvious vocal change and it will work regardless of melodic contrast.

I try to focus on having 3 melodies in a beat. One lead melody, one rhythmic melody, and one chorus melody. If I can make one low range, one mid range, and one high range it tends to sound more full but even that doesn't always go that way. I do try and have a melody that's in the chorus only but I often find that it's a fairly insignificant melody and the drums change more than anything.

The key here is to decide if it sounds like a chorus when the song is done. If it sounds like a chorus with the vocals on it then there's no problem to solve.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
This kind of **** can get really deep and quickly turn into a rabbit-hole. I have absolutely no qualm with anyone developing their comprehension of music theory (in fact I really respect anyone that does), however, it can start to become constricting if you begin over-thinking things. A lot of the most progressive and creative **** out there (in my opinion) tends to be made by people pushing boundaries, but even more than that—people who have a very refined sense of aesthetics and are able to trust their gut instinct about these kinds of decisions, and that's the best advice I can give without getting into technicalities—garner the experience and comprehension levels needed to make you feel like you can make aesthetic decisions that genuinely please YOU, regardless of what music theory might tell you.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Notheorem729 View Post
To be honest, we're in a whole different world music wise these days. If you listen to some of the biggest rap/hip-hop songs and pay attention to the beats you'll notice that many of them don't seem to have a hook at all and sometimes the beats don't even change.

My biggest piece of advice is to focus on the transition itself. There are a lot of music theory trends but that doesn't mean they are the right or wrong way. They're just a habit that have been circulated for decades. There are some music theory implications but I don't know music theory well enough to try and teach them. My point is that often all you really need is either a drum build up or a drum breakdown going into the chorus and an obvious vocal change and it will work regardless of melodic contrast.

I try to focus on having 3 melodies in a beat. One lead melody, one rhythmic melody, and one chorus melody. If I can make one low range, one mid range, and one high range it tends to sound more full but even that doesn't always go that way. I do try and have a melody that's in the chorus only but I often find that it's a fairly insignificant melody and the drums change more than anything.

The key here is to decide if it sounds like a chorus when the song is done. If it sounds like a chorus with the vocals on it then there's no problem to solve.
Thanks for the reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
This kind of **** can get really deep and quickly turn into a rabbit-hole. I have absolutely no qualm with anyone developing their comprehension of music theory (in fact I really respect anyone that does), however, it can start to become constricting if you begin over-thinking things. A lot of the most progressive and creative **** out there (in my opinion) tends to be made by people pushing boundaries, but even more than that—people who have a very refined sense of aesthetics and are able to trust their gut instinct about these kinds of decisions, and that's the best advice I can give without getting into technicalities—garner the experience and comprehension levels needed to make you feel like you can make aesthetic decisions that genuinely please YOU, regardless of what music theory might tell you.
Yes, I know that paralysis by analysis can be a creativity blocker but I just noticed this contrast problem with my beats which is why I'm trying to fix it.

Over the last days I listened to a lot of known old school stuff to see how past beatmakers contrasted verse and hook.

I came across Jurassic 5 after not listening to them for a while (DJ Numark and Cut Chemist made their beats as far as I know) and I noticed that verse and chorus are often blurred or interlocked in their records.
Meaning the chorus part starts but the rapper continues with this verse and then halfway thru the chorus they switch to rapping the chorus. On multiple records they do this transition.
One time they even swapped chorus and verse by rapping on the chorus and singing the chorus on the verse section.
Just something I wanted to share.
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