The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Where Will Hip Hop Go After Trap?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
... That said, artists like FlyLo do anything but that and it still blows my mind how he has such as huge fan base considering how experimental and challenging a lot of of his work is. Maximum credit to him for managing to do it though!

I can't think of any other artist as big as him who is nearly as 'out there'. (Suggestions welcome )
(i'm sure you know them, but others might not...)

Autechre are totally hip-hop:



Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
(i'm sure you know them, but others might not...)

Autechre are totally hip-hop:



I like those tracks, and yeah those have a nod to hip-hop, but most of Autechre's stuff doesn't IMO. (Not a bad thing, just different)

I see them as a good example of quality 'electronica' than ever really being considered 'hip hop'.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
I like those tracks, and yeah those have a nod to hip-hop, but most of Autechre's stuff doesn't IMO. (Not a bad thing, just different)

I see them as a good example of quality 'electronica' than ever really being considered 'hip hop'.
while they're definitely "not hip-hop", i think it's pretty baked into most everything they've ever done. those are two of the more blatant examples of that album, but most all of their stuff has this "funk" to it that's clearly rooted in their 80s hip-hop influences. like, pretty much all of it, even their latest stuff. it's all just breaks. not always very "obvious" like Flying Lotus, but definitely there.

Boards Of Canada as well, but they're almost instrumental hip-hop as it is.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
while they're definitely "not hip-hop", i think it's pretty baked into most everything they've ever done. those are two of the more blatant examples of that album, but most all of their stuff has this "funk" to it that's clearly rooted in their 80s hip-hop influences. like, pretty much all of it, even their latest stuff. it's all just breaks. not always very "obvious" like Flying Lotus, but definitely there.
Just stumbled across this article about them which seems to summarise their 'genre' and contributing genres well IMO

https://www.factmag.com/2013/09/02/t...tial-autechre/

I'm not sure if 'funk' is the term i'd use to call what's in the DNA of their back catalogue though. I don't find much of it to have much funk at all.

Quote:
Boards Of Canada as well, but they're almost instrumental hip-hop as it is.
Yeah BoC are obviously dope. They used to live just up the road from me.

Heavy heavy lofi vibes of course that preceded the the likes of the currently big lofi hiphop scene by decades but again, I don't really call BoC typically 'hip-hop'.

That's just me though. We all have our own opinions on where the fuzzy areas between genres stop and start.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #65
f33
Gear Addict
 

new flylo is out and the first track is pretty footwork inspired
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
... I'm not sure if 'funk' is the term i'd use to call what's in the DNA of their back catalogue though. I don't find much of it to have much funk at all.
oodles of funk. seriously.

Quote:
Yeah BoC are obviously dope. ... but again, I don't really call BoC typically 'hip-hop'.
oh, of course. right on. not really trying to re-define anything here, just suggesting something a little different (but still in the vein of hip-hop).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
oodles of funk. seriously.
I think we maybe have different concepts of what funk is to us. Nothing wrong with that tbh.

Quote:
oh, of course. right on. not really trying to re-define anything here, just suggesting something a little different (but still in the vein of hip-hop).
I align them far more with the downtempo scene than hip-hop, but that's just my opinion.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
sorry to split hairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
I think we maybe have different concepts of what funk is to us.
probably not. like i said, it's not obvious unless you've listened to them quite a bit.

Quote:
I align them far more with the downtempo scene than hip-hop, but that's just my opinion.
man, i see what you're saying (they're not "hip-hop" and have never been considered as such), but half their beats are straight boom-bap. they're about as hip-hop as it gets without being classified as such.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
sorry to split hairs...

probably not. like i said, it's not obvious unless you've listened to them quite a bit.
I'll admit I am not aware of a wide range of their records, but from what i've heard, and for example a load of their top tracks linked to in that Fact interview I posted earlier, they just don't have much funk for me.

However, please post a few of their tracks that you would definitley say are funky. I'm actually really keen to hear them as I can imagine I would enjoy them much more than the colder darker stuff.

Quote:
man, i see what you're saying (they're not "hip-hop" and have never been considered as such), but half their beats are straight boom-bap. they're about as hip-hop as it gets without being classified as such.
A fair point tbh!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #70
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
... they just don't have much funk for me.

However, please post a few of their tracks that you would definitely say are funky. I'm actually really keen to hear them as I can imagine I would enjoy them much more than the colder darker stuff.
well, most all of their stuff could be considered cold/dark, but here's a few?







this was the future of hip-hop, 20+ years ago. funky as hell.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #71
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
even their latest stuff, straight up "outer space hip-hop":

Old 4 weeks ago
  #72
IMO calling Board of Canada to be Hip Hop music is stretching the subject just a bit after it crack, broke and is not hip hop at all anymore.
1
Share
Old 4 weeks ago
  #73
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
IMO calling Board of Canada to be Hip Hop music is stretching the subject just a bit after it crack, broke and is not hip hop at all anymore.
do i need to lay an acapella over it for you, or what?

Old 4 weeks ago
  #74
Gear Nut
 
B.A.'s Avatar
 

To be honest, usually I prefer my rap to have that classic sound to it. For example last week I was bumpin the Masta Ace & Marco Polo's A Breukelen Story, came out about 6 months ago. It has that east coast boom bap vibe through out, it's dope! I've always been a Masta Ace fan and I got hooked on Marco Polo's production when I first heard his and Torae's Double Barrel album, so a new Ace and Polo album was a no brained for me. I liked Ice Cube's new album that came out around the same time and I'll be getting Suga Free's new album The Resurrection as soon as the hard copies become available; it's got some funky west coast production, got some DJ Quik produced tracks on it too! So the music that I really like from artists that I've been bumpin for a long time now is out there, I just got to dig and keep my eyes and ears open cuz your not gonna hear it getting played on the radio or see videos for it on tv, those days are over.

I'm not against listening to new artist if they got some good ****, it's just that most of the time they're on that trap ****. Some of the o.g.'s are still putting out great music with an updated classic sound that I really dig so I gravitate to that more. And I got to dig for and support that music, if I don't who else will. So where will hip hop go after trap??? Don't know, we will more than likely get a new style that I'm not totally fellin', but that will be that generation's thing; as long as I can still find some new dope **** I like, I'm good.

Here's a few of the tracks off of the Ace & Polo album, ya'll might like it since it sounds like some of you like that classic boom bap sound.

https://youtu.be/XZRvAeUdO0o

https://youtu.be/XIJ06e9GnMY

Last edited by B.A.; 4 weeks ago at 07:03 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #75
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
well, most all of their stuff could be considered cold/dark, but here's a few?







this was the future of hip-hop, 20+ years ago. funky as hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
even their latest stuff, straight up "outer space hip-hop":

None of those tracks are funky or hip-hop at all IMO.

For me they are eclectic electronica from the colder/darker side of the genre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
do i need to lay an acapella over it for you, or what?

I guess those drums in the right context could be hip-hop, but they don't really have a hip-hop vibe on their own IMO. They sound far too much like someone playing a drum kit rather than an MPC for example. As for those big synth pads and strings, no way do they say hip-hop to me. I can't think of any hip-hop tracks which has that kind of instrumentation.

A lot of BoC's stuff is basically ambient with a downtempo beat.
1
Share
Old 4 weeks ago
  #76
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.A. View Post

Here's a few of the tracks off of the Ace & Polo album, ya'll might like it since it sounds like some of you like that classic boom bap sound.

https://youtu.be/XIJ06e9GnMY
I quite like the Breukelen track, but i'm so over hearing those standard basic boom-bap beats in contemporary records as they have so been done to death, just like 808 basslines and triplet hats in trap. I'm greedy for syncopation and a more organic/live sound to my hip-hop these days!

As much as I love so many classic records and they will always be on rotation, I love hearing fresh new ideas and developments of the genre as well rather than sticking to records with a 'tried and tested' formula.

Even better if I can hear something that is so fresh that I can't think of another artist who sounds like it.

Last edited by barryfell; 4 weeks ago at 09:09 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
None of those tracks are funky or hip-hop at all IMO. ... I guess those drums in the right context could be hip-hop, but they don't really have a hip-hop vibe on their own IMO. They sound far too much like someone playing a drum kit rather than an MPC for example. As for those big synth pads and strings, no way do they say hip-hop to me. I can't think of any hip-hop tracks which has that kind of instrumentation.
god bless your soul.

(i don't know what else to tell you. sorry to hear this.)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #78
Lives for gear
 
barryfell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
god bless your soul.
I wish they had some soul.

Just joking, they have their own kind of soul, just not in the typical sense.

Quote:
(i don't know what else to tell you. sorry to hear this.)
It's all good, we just have different opinions of what constitutes certain genres. If you feel funk and hip-hop vibes from those tracks then cool.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
do i need to lay an acapella over it for you, or what?


Yeah, put David Bowie on top of that and call that R&B.

You could also take one of the drone synth songs and call that gospel with a choir on top.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #80
Gear Maniac
 

In all honesty, the "new rap sound" is already here, it just hasn't grown to become popularized yet. Crunk was already happening before it took it off in the early 2000s. G-funk was already circling in California before Dre took off with it. Somebody started making "trap beats" before WE heard it. My point is, everything has an origin, and most if it starts off with unknown producers who eventually make it big with that sound. Other times an artist make take a risk on bringing out something new and having it catch fire. A perfect example of this is Timbaland producing Aaliyah's second album.

All that said, trap as a production style is already starting to phase out. Right now the industry is looking for what that next sound is going to be. I think in R&B/soul, you're going to start hearing more "REAL singers" come back. And along with that, you'll to start hear more real music and instrumentation. Artists like H.E.R., Sabrina Claudio, Alina Baraz, Khalid, etc are already paving the ground work for that with their style and production. At that point, music will likely become too advance for the majority of your "finger producers" (people that play melodies and beats with their index finger). Hence why I'm saying the trap sound will start to completely die out soon, and along with it, the majority of the producers that make beats in that style.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #81
f33
Gear Addict
 

so the rap sound is gonnna be rnb & soul?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #82
Lives for gear
 
BezowinZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlacck View Post
...All that said, trap as a production style is already starting to phase out. Right now the industry is looking for what that next sound is going to be. I think in R&B/soul, you're going to start hearing more "REAL singers" come back. And along with that, you'll to start hear more real music and instrumentation. Artists like H.E.R., Sabrina Claudio, Alina Baraz, Khalid, etc are already paving the ground work for that with their style and production. At that point, music will likely become too advance for the majority of your "finger producers" (people that play melodies and beats with their index finger). Hence why I'm saying the trap sound will start to completely die out soon, and along with it, the majority of the producers that make beats in that style.
I hope it leans to more traditional instrumentation, but I'm doubting that becomes THE sound as that requires a bigger budget than most labels/producers are willing to take on. IMO, part of the reason Trap became so big is the cost of sampling. Hip Hop got a lot simpler when folks started getting sued.

With record sales not what they used to be, I don't know. But I'm hopeful.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #83
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
Autechre's Tri Repetae (1995) was definitely a futuristic form of hip-hop (24 years ago!!! This album still sounds WAY more futuristic than most modern hip-hop):

https://youtu.be/AMIV6JddzVE
1
Share
Old 4 weeks ago
  #84
f33
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Autechre's Tri Repetae (1995) was definitely a futuristic form of hip-hop (24 years ago!!! This album still sounds WAY more futuristic than most modern hip-hop):

https://youtu.be/AMIV6JddzVE
sounds like electronic music to me, not sure where you getting hip hop from other than tempo
Old 4 weeks ago
  #85
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
sounds like electronic music to me, not sure where you getting hip hop from other than tempo
this right here is why hip-hop sucks these days. i want to think you guys are joking, but i think you're (somehow) just not able to hear it. sad, really.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #86
f33
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
this right here is why hip-hop sucks these days. i want to think you guys are joking, but i think you're (somehow) just not able to hear it. sad, really.
hip hop isnt just some 95 bpm sampled and/or electronic music. it has to be rapped over and thats why im not hearing it, because most of the midrange and the songs are too busy to rap over. Ive listened to autechre since '94, i like them, but IMO that beat isnt to be rapped over. Its like an electronic music song at 130 bpm doesnt have to be any thing but an electronic music song at 130 bpm. It could be house/techno/electro or a blend of all three but it doesnt have to be any of the three. Autechre is like AFX, theres no strict genre that it conforms to on a cosistent basis.

again, yes you can rap on it, but at the same time you cant decide its a rap album when the group or any critics never came to that conclusion. well you can do what you want, but that means i can call it a jazz album.
1
Share
Old 4 weeks ago
  #87
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbuonacc View Post
this right here is why hip-hop sucks these days. i want to think you guys are joking, but i think you're (somehow) just not able to hear it. sad, really.
There's no swing or swagger in those tracks tho.The groove is a little (lol) tight for hiphop.A breakbeat does not make funk and hiphop on its own.Its an attitude.Nothing wrong with those tracks tho.They might be the best of that style.......but they dont swing.
This is more loose-

1
Share
Old 4 weeks ago
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
There's no swing or swagger in those tracks tho.The groove is a little (lol) tight for hiphop.A breakbeat does not make funk and hiphop on its own.Its an attitude.Nothing wrong with those tracks tho.They might be the best of that style.......but they dont swing.
This is more loose-

Totally agree with your point of view.

The feel is just not there even tho' the breaks and the over reverberish airy pad '' a la trap'' is there.

I must say, that it does make me smile a bit....it remember me those ventures of Redman with Roni size for example......

Or the one with Cypress hill.... Also a great track



Those were not hip hop productions per say but still it was refreshing.

I'm not sure that there's a need to reinvent Hip hop music like it was from 94 to 2004.

The foundation was very precisely defined and got a whole generation hooked to it....like Rock, jazz , blues was and still are and havent changed much.

My take on it is....leave it as it was and just clean your mix a bit better and you got what people are after.

Just keep in mind that whats popular doesnt define whats good . Everybody love different sound....so just do you.

This is a humid basement type of music. Let it live.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #89
f33
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
There's no swing or swagger in those tracks tho.The groove is a little (lol) tight for hiphop.A breakbeat does not make funk and hiphop on its own.Its an attitude.Nothing wrong with those tracks tho.They might be the best of that style.......but they dont swing.
This is more loose-

this slowed down to around 60-70 bpm is what phonk is like(thats what the media labeled it as but im not sure the creators were on board) they'll sample stuff like this or tycho sounding stuff and and remix popular songs(sometimes have their own lyricists rap over. its trap based with the 808s but not the exact same formula since its deeper. i guess deep trap is what a dj could see it as.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIml3fNgrKA
Old 3 weeks ago
  #90
Lives for gear
 
jbuonacc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
hip hop isnt just some 95 bpm sampled and/or electronic music. it has to be rapped over and thats why im not hearing it...
no, the only point i'm trying to make is that Autechre are "hip-hop" at their core. most all of their beats are just warped boom-bap. they became their own genre, but it's really just boom-bap on another level when it comes down to it.

Quote:
again, yes you can rap on it, but at the same time you cant decide its a rap album when the group or any critics never came to that conclusion. well you can do what you want, but that means i can call it a jazz album.
honestly, i almost think of Autechre as electronic jazz (and i'm not generally a jazz fan). ...but that's the thing. i'm not saying Autechre is to be classified as hip-hop, but that they wear their influence on their sleeves and "hip-hop" is completely ingrained into their music.

...and also that i think it would have been a good thing if hip-hop itself (as a genre) had gone more in that direction when sampling became an issue. they should have been looking at IDM/trip-hop/industrial programming/techniques, but instead we got 10-20 years of 808s and every song sounding like the last. they could have had the Chemical Brothers or Crystal Method producing for the top MCs (their debuts were hard as hell), but instead everyone went soft. (i may be a little hazy on this, i'm now recalling all that Timbaland/Kanye/etc which was its own thing.)

i think 'Tical' by RZA/Method Man was an interesting synth-based production, but he never really went back to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goa-Dubs View Post
There's no swing or swagger in those tracks tho.The groove is a little (lol) tight for hiphop.A breakbeat does not make funk and hiphop on its own.Its an attitude.Nothing wrong with those tracks tho.They might be the best of that style.......but they dont swing.
i'm not sure what else to tell you, but their stuff swings hard. "no swagger"?! dude... i can't explain this to you through text, maybe if we were kicking back with a few beers and i could show you by moving to it? it's there, keep listening.

Quote:
This is more loose-

this is even further off the mark, those beats are rooted in reggae. Plaid are more an extension of jungle/DnB. certainly nothing more loose/funky going on there than with Autechre. in fact, a lot of the programming sounds like stuff that Autechre had been doing (better) years before that. Plaid is good stuff though, for what they are.
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
SampleFactory / Sample, Loop, and Preset Libraries
1
Jonbeatz / Newbie Audio Engineering + Production Question Zone
2
SeriousPancakes / Rap + Hip Hop Engineering and Production
2

Forum Jump
Forum Jump