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layering multiple heavy sub 808s issue.
Old 12th April 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSlow View Post
The way that we were dealing with this in the 90's was just shifting 808s in time around 30-40 ms after the kick (or slightly different timing, depending on the kick's lenght), then compression on bus with these... and basically that's all. You can do just volume automation on the beginning of the 808, same effect, it's that really simple
E-MU rack samplers (both ESI and E4) have a feature for each zone (layer) where you can delay the start time of the sample.
Old 12th April 2019
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSlow View Post
No offence but your posts about this VST sounds like they were sponsored or something. Why does it sound tedious? For me this VST sounds too complicated or overthought - what's the purpose of making space for the kick cutting bass from the 808 and leaving mid's and highs frequencies which theoretically are at least a few % of the whole 808 sample? Even if this is hardly distorted 808, leaving mid's and highs while kick hits will make it sounds sh**ty, as these frequencies might (and they usually will) clash with the kick - even if they're OK by the phase, their presence will make kick sounds quieter and less dominant after any compression, eg after mastering. Its usually better for kick just leaving whole available space in 808 (frequencies + any amplitudes, to a complete silence) than making some unnecessary things with some strange plugins, seriously.

-doc
Kicks in trap music are so snappy with little sustain so ducking the low end of the 808 for a split millisecond to make space for the kick really isn’t that big of a deal and makes a worlds difference, especially if the kick is sitting in the same frequency range as the 808. It sounds far more natural than moving the 808 in time or cutting the beginning. Also, it’s not ducking the whole 808, it’s only ducking the overlapping frequencies of the 808 and the kick. And like I said, it “sounds” complicated the way it functions, but it’s super easy to navigate. It’s only just a sidechain dynamic EQ with a few knobs. Everything else the plugin does itself. Ur only controlling the amount, low and high cut, attack and release, and M/S functions. It takes literally 2 seconds to use it and get it to sound right.
Old 12th April 2019
  #33
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocSlow View Post
No offence but your posts about this VST sounds like they were sponsored or something. Why does it sound tedious? For me this VST sounds too complicated or overthought - what's the purpose of making space for the kick cutting bass from the 808 and leaving mid's and highs frequencies which theoretically are at least a few % of the whole 808 sample? Even if this is hardly distorted 808, leaving mid's and highs while kick hits will make it sounds sh**ty, as these frequencies might (and they usually will) clash with the kick - even if they're OK by the phase, their presence will make kick sounds quieter and less dominant after any compression, eg after mastering. Its usually better for kick just leaving whole available space in 808 (frequencies + any amplitudes, to a complete silence) than making some unnecessary things with some strange plugins, seriously.

-doc
TrackSpacer isn't a complex or strange plugin—it's just a dynamic EQ with a sidechain on it. It's meant specifically to address "masking" issues between two sources that share similar frequency ranges, and that's where it differs somewhat, as it will read the spectrum of the incoming source from the sidechain and compare it with that of the track it's running on, in order to discern what frequencies are being masked. Basically, instead of the typical side-chain 'ducking' effect that attenuates the amplitude of the entire signal, this will only strictly attenuate any overlapping frequencies, which can provide a potentially somewhat smoother and less obvious effect, if used judiciously.
Old 12th April 2019
  #34
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This is a great video which goes into detail about mixing a standard kick with an 808. As well as bringing out the midrange tone of the 808 he uses Waves F6 eq to dynamically duck the kick frequency from the 808 boom. You could also use Fab Filter Q3, or Trackspacer (for super precision I find Q3 more accurate).

Old 12th April 2019
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmanzie View Post
This is a great video which goes into detail about mixing a standard kick with an 808. As well as bringing out the midrange tone of the 808 he uses Waves F6 eq to dynamically duck the kick frequency from the 808 boom. You could also use Fab Filter Q3, or Trackspacer (for super precision I find Q3 more accurate).

You think pro Q has more precision than trackspcer in terms of sidechain dynamic EQ’ing? I have both and I find that really hard to believe. Trackspacer is specifically built for this task and in my opinion achieves what it does far better than F6 and Q3, which I own both.

Trackspacer is analyzing the sidechain input and ducks only the interlapping frequencies between the bass and kick, using a 32 band dynamic EQ. As far as I’m concerned neither Q3 or F6 can do anything that precise.
Old 13th April 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodakell View Post
You think pro Q has more precision than trackspcer in terms of sidechain dynamic EQ’ing? I have both and I find that really hard to believe. Trackspacer is specifically built for this task and in my opinion achieves what it does far better than F6 and Q3, which I own both.

Trackspacer is analyzing the sidechain input and ducks only the interlapping frequencies between the bass and kick, using a 32 band dynamic EQ. As far as I’m concerned neither Q3 or F6 can do anything that precise.
Q3 doesn't do 'inverse eq' you're right, and I think it would be a good feature, but for the task shown in the video Q3 has much finer and precise controls over dynamic ducking frequency, Q, threshold, etc. I own Q3 and have Trackspacer on demo - Trackspacer I find is good for broadbrush type requirements, eg giving a vocal more room to sit in the music by making a few dB of 'room'. Super quick and easy. For a situation like the video, I don't need the complete inverse eq of the kick, it's too broad and noticeable - I know Trackspacer has low and high cut but the Q3's precision in that regard is unparalleled and I think better quality. But I do like Trackspacer and if it works better for you then great. I'll probably buy it.
Old 13th April 2019
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmanzie View Post
Q3 doesn't do 'inverse eq' you're right, and I think it would be a good feature, but for the task shown in the video Q3 has much finer and precise controls over dynamic ducking frequency, Q, threshold, etc. I own Q3 and have Trackspacer on demo - Trackspacer I find is good for broadbrush type requirements, eg giving a vocal more room to sit in the music by making a few dB of 'room'. Super quick and easy. For a situation like the video, I don't need the complete inverse eq of the kick, it's too broad and noticeable - I know Trackspacer has low and high cut but the Q3's precision in that regard is unparalleled and I think better quality. But I do like Trackspacer and if it works better for you then great. I'll probably buy it.

Yeah it actually took me a while to get trackspacer to work just the way I want. I remember the first few tracks I tried using it on I actually took it off just to put on plugins I was more used to and used to the sound of. But after a while I thought to myself that I should spend more time really trying to figure it out and see how it works best and where. I just took the time to really go through and tweak with everything and now I don’t think I can live without. I actually don’t use it for 808s as much is it seems from this thread but I use it ALL THE TIME on vocal delays specifically.
Old 13th April 2019
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by sadix View Post
i got a bass theory that violates bass law, i say layer, layer young man!
Just remember to use protection while doing all that layering.
Old 13th April 2019
  #39
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malt Liquor Bum View Post
Just remember to use protection while doing all that layering.
HAHA
Old 13th April 2019
  #40
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodakell View Post
Yeah it actually took me a while to get trackspacer to work just the way I want. I remember the first few tracks I tried using it on I actually took it off just to put on plugins I was more used to and used to the sound of. But after a while I thought to myself that I should spend more time really trying to figure it out and see how it works best and where. I just took the time to really go through and tweak with everything and now I don’t think I can live without. I actually don’t use it for 808s as much is it seems from this thread but I use it ALL THE TIME on vocal delays specifically.
Yeah, I rarely/never use TrackSpacer for kicks/808s, but I've found it incredibly useful for a plethora of other tasks. Anytime there are two discrete audio sources with overlapping frequencies causing masking it can make a huge difference.
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