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Every Mix nowdays sound like... Plastic!! Saturation Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #121
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boombapdame's Avatar
@Sagicorn35 Trap is as Hip Hop as any other Hip Hop subgenre if you consider the socioeconomic aspect that is a callout to Hip Hop's street ethos and I've been listening as of late to modern Trap beats sans vocals that aren't cliché.
Old 1 week ago
  #122
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@Sagicorn35 Trap is as Hip Hop as any other Hip Hop subgenre if you consider the socioeconomic aspect that is a callout to Hip Hop's street ethos and I've been listening as of late to modern Trap beats sans vocals that aren't cliché.
We gonna have to agree to disagree. I feel trap music is a sub genre of rap music, just like hip hop is a sub genre. With rap music being the umbrella. I wouldn’t dare say trap is a form of hip hop. Hip hop had its time and trap became the thing since 2010. But to each his own. I look at hip hop as being the first sub genre. It’s culture, breakdancing, b boys, turntablism, beatmaking, MCing, art, all that was hip hops first wave. Trap has a drug culture stamped to it. It came straight from the south. Yeah, it’s a part of rap music in general but it ain’t hip hop at all. Just my opinion.
Old 1 week ago
  #123
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s wave's Avatar
If you listen to a sound like --- Tedeschi Trucks Band you can see how far away from plastic this is - it real - its blues - its B&W - it is also modern music...

Take note of the skill - the heart - the equipment on stage - the delivery... doesn't matter if its live or studio - its good = do this and plastic doesn't see the light of day. (I like plastic too tho)


Tedeschi Trucks Band
"MIDNIGHT IN HARLEM"

YouTube



(I think you will like it boom...)
Old 1 week ago
  #124
Gear Maniac
 

Maybe it’s just music that comes from FL studio sound like plastic thin material.
Old 1 week ago
  #125
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boombapdame's Avatar
To say Hip Hop had its time is a lie @Sagicorn35 and I stand by what I say about Trap though I don't listen to it but there is tons of quality outside of it to be listened to and there are no elements of Hip Hop that are dead as it depends on where you are and where you look. Don't act like NYC cats in Hip Hop's first wave weren't dusted, etc. just as today's Trap rappers are via pills, etc.
Old 1 week ago
  #126
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Hip Hop is an umbrella, not a sub genre.
There were drugs in it since the beginning. The moral compass of it was different and getting high wasn't something to be proud of.
Old 1 week ago
  #127
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s wave's Avatar
How about this Ukrainian band out of Kiev NO PLASTIC.

70s sound of horns WOW!

YouTube

hope you like Chicago...
Old 1 week ago
  #128
Here for the gear
 

trap sound is really nothing new either imo:
YouTube
Old 1 week ago
  #129
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
To say Hip Hop had its time is a lie @Sagicorn35 and I stand by what I say about Trap though I don't listen to it but there is tons of quality outside of it to be listened to and there are no elements of Hip Hop that are dead as it depends on where you are and where you look. Don't act like NYC cats in Hip Hop's first wave weren't dusted, etc. just as today's Trap rappers are via pills, etc.
Early Hip-Hop didn’t make choruses of prescription pill brands. Rappers are now advertisers for corporate prisons, homosexuality, abortion and Big Pharma.
Old 1 week ago
  #130
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e-are's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post


Pull out the first Craig Mack album and pull out a recent album that emulates “90s Hip-Hop”—no where close, sonically.
Enough said
Old 1 week ago
  #131
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e-are's Avatar
 

This thread had me digging in the crates. Not only does these old gems sound good, they FEEL good. Especially on this old thing called a turntable



YouTube

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube
Old 1 week ago
  #132
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boombapdame's Avatar
@breakinrecords I know what early Hip Hop sounds like, and yes because of what modern crap rappers advertise it's why I only listen to certain OGs (Black Thought, Styles P, CL Smooth) and some younger (Rapsody, Noname, etc.) but the rest can get the trash pile.
Old 1 week ago
  #133
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BezowinZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
If you listen to a sound like --- Tedeschi Trucks Band you can see how far away from plastic this is - it real - its blues - its B&W - it is also modern music...

Take note of the skill - the heart - the equipment on stage - the delivery... doesn't matter if its live or studio - its good = do this and plastic doesn't see the light of day. (I like plastic too tho)


Tedeschi Trucks Band
"MIDNIGHT IN HARLEM"

YouTube



(I think you will like it boom...)
Derek Trucks is no Joke!
Old 6 days ago
  #134
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@breakinrecords I know what early Hip Hop sounds like, and yes because of what modern crap rappers advertise it's why I only listen to certain OGs (Black Thought, Styles P, CL Smooth) and some younger (Rapsody, Noname, etc.) but the rest can get the trash pile.
You’re not very old if the music of Black Thought and Styles P are “old” to you.
Old 6 days ago
  #135
Gear Maniac
 
skoolafish's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
Who was your mentor @skoolafish
a brother named maestro from LI, one of my mentors
Old 6 days ago
  #136
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by breakinrecords View Post
Early Hip-Hop didn’t make choruses of prescription pill brands. Rappers are now advertisers for corporate prisons, homosexuality, abortion and Big Pharma.


The moral position changed because of the drug era's effects.
Old 5 days ago
  #137
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
To say Hip Hop had its time is a lie @Sagicorn35 and I stand by what I say about Trap though I don't listen to it but there is tons of quality outside of it to be listened to and there are no elements of Hip Hop that are dead as it depends on where you are and where you look. Don't act like NYC cats in Hip Hop's first wave weren't dusted, etc. just as today's Trap rappers are via pills, etc.
I’m not saying they’re weren’t getting high and doing what they do as well. I’m saying when hip hop started, it was a little bit more friendly sounding in a way. You saw the the hip hop culture form in the beginning from 79 on down to the 80’s. To me hip hop was just big as hell, and had a big impact on society in the beginning. But it was under the rap music umbrella. Hip hop in general had subs. To me hip hop is a sub, and let’s say alternative hip hop is a sub/style from hip hop in general. It’s all good man. No hard feelings. This is just my view. I see it differently. I see trap as being it’s own thing and having its own culture too. It just looks worst because of the times were in.
Old 5 days ago
  #138
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Hip Hop is an umbrella, not a sub genre.
There were drugs in it since the beginning. The moral compass of it was different and getting high wasn't something to be proud of.
Ok that’s cool bro! And if hip hop is the umbrella, then what is rap music then? A sub genre. It gets no backwards then this.
Old 5 days ago
  #139
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
To say Hip Hop had its time is a lie @Sagicorn35 and I stand by what I say about Trap though I don't listen to it but there is tons of quality outside of it to be listened to and there are no elements of Hip Hop that are dead as it depends on where you are and where you look. Don't act like NYC cats in Hip Hop's first wave weren't dusted, etc. just as today's Trap rappers are via pills, etc.
And I’m sorry bro! Hip hop did have its biggest time. It lasted as long as it could. It was good to be here to experience the parts of it that we did. But it ain’t coming back like it did before. Sure! People can still choose to do it. Like you can choose to do jazz right now. It still ain’t as popular as it once was when it hit the streets. And trap is pretty much done too lol.
Old 5 days ago
  #140
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e-are's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagicorn35 View Post
I agree. DJ Premier newest production did sound thin. If I were him. I would have kept my analog mixing desk and MPC 60 and all the other outboard stuff he uses. And just record that sound into pro tools. I think it’s about the converters from the outboard equipment he’s using, that gives him the depth and warm sound. But if any producer creates from in the box. And stays in the box. It’s like no way to sound, without sounding thin.
I've seen Storyville, Matt Weiss, mix completely itb and it didn't sound thin at all. I couldn't do it without my outboard but some can. I guess my point is it depends on the mixer and his "itb" skill level.
Old 5 days ago
  #141
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagicorn35 View Post
Ok that’s cool bro! And if hip hop is the umbrella, then what is rap music then? A sub genre. It gets no backwards then this.
How can hip hop include graffiti, breaking, DJ'ng, and rap music and not be an umbrella?

Yes, rap music is part of hip hop culture. If that's backwards for you, I'd like to know where, and what era you grew up.

2live was much hip hop, as Ice cube/NWA, the Ghetto boys, Run DMC, the Beasties, the FatBoys,Rodney O and Joe Cooley, Biggie, the Wu, JayZ etc. .

All are very different styles, all hip hop.

Trap isn't anything other than a different twist on the same music genre, and so is Bounce music in New Orleans.

We can agree to disagree, but you will still be wrong.
Old 5 days ago
  #142
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boombapdame's Avatar
@breakinrecords I’m 36.
Old 5 days ago
  #143
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Before computers, tape and time with a tape machine cost lots of money, and tracks were limited. Time was taken to get the right track down. Today things move much faster at the cost of quality.
Old 4 days ago
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-are View Post
I've seen Storyville, Matt Weiss, mix completely itb and it didn't sound thin at all. I couldn't do it without my outboard but some can. I guess my point is it depends on the mixer and his "itb" skill level.
I hear you. I mix ITB too. And my mixes sound good too. I’ve had pros ask me if I’m doing analog summing or using some outboard stuff. But it all depends on the engineer.
Old 4 days ago
  #145
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Hip Hop is an umbrella, not a sub-genre.
There were drugs in it since the beginning. The moral compass of it was different and getting high wasn't something to be proud of.
100% true Hip Hop is the genre, rap came later, it was Mc'ing that mutated into the rap sub-genre, kids these days don't know what they are on about.
Old 4 days ago
  #146
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
How can hip hop include graffiti, breaking, DJ'ng, and rap music and not be an umbrella?

Yes, rap music is part of hip hop culture. If that's backwards for you, I'd like to know where, and what era you grew up.

2live was much hip hop, as Ice cube/NWA, the Ghetto boys, Run DMC, the Beasties, the FatBoys,Rodney O and Joe Cooley, Biggie, the Wu, JayZ etc. .

All are very different styles, all hip hop.

Trap isn't anything other than a different twist on the same music genre, and so is Bounce music in New Orleans.

We can agree to disagree, but you will still be wrong.
Well, being born in 79 and grew up listening to epmd, nwa, basically alot of late 80’s rap music. I kinda seen the second wave of rap music. My perception is that it’s all rap music just different styles. I feel hip hop had the first impact on rap music. All sub genres of rap music have culture to it. That’s what makes rap music unique. When it comes to main genres like jazz, rock, country, electronic. To me and probably to me only. Rap falls right in. Rap is what they do. And what style of rap they do is the sub genre. But to each is own. It’s all perception to me. Just like the producer vs beatmaker debate. It’s really stupid. And a waste of time.
Old 4 days ago
  #147
Gear Head
 

its all about capturing it correctly, and mixing it in digital.

regardless of what it is music wise, if you do not leave the natural headroom in the capturing process or in the mix. It will start changing the shape of the wave forms, which causes your "plastic effect"
Old 4 days ago
  #148
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akai612's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacchino View Post
When you think about it:

Back in the 60's / 70's, all mixes sounded warm and crunchy... Like a home-made apple crumble pie.

In the 80's / 90's, music sounded... Well beside MJ's music, very sterile. Too clean. Too scholar.

Then Dr Dre in the 2K's came up with the Chronic sound. It's wide and aggressive where it needs to be. Snares hit you in the back. It's the Dre/Neptunes/Timbo tight sounding era.

But nowdays... omg... It all sound like, litterally like plastic (I blame iZotope Ozone).

I'm really looking forward to come up with the Grit of the Glamrock era + the tightness of the Chronic era, yet I feel like most "Home Mastering" plugins are the culprit.

I can even hear this Plastic sound even in Movie Trailers and Soundtrack...

1. Does anyone understand what I mean?
2. Anyone have a Master plugin chain that doesn't plastify mixes?

Tried once to create a song DAW based with "boutique" loops and VSTs. Took me 5 minutes to create a whole song...just copy/past. Very convenient compared to working with real gear that takes up to a whole evening to create a song. And yes the result of the DAW/VST track was that it had a awful clean sterlie perfectly quantasized "plastic" sound.

The same goes with moving pictures since ever they started to use exsessively green screening. Looks like total ****e compared to the days where they used real modeling and real background scenery. Prefer any of the old star-wars stop-motion fx or original Planet of the Apes movies compared to the perfectly looking artificial marvel CGI crap they use today...its all about cost-saving and mass-production. That whole digitalisation of arts has grown into a indigestible mass product...
Old 4 days ago
  #149
Here for the gear
 

Plastic Mixes

I had this problem, there are a couple things that cause this. Before I was ever happy with my sound, I went down this road. The subjects below can be highly debated by experts, but until I cleared these issues up, I too suffered from high end hardware with a plastic sounding mix. (The current state of modern mixes)

There are a lot of great plugins now that can help you achieve a great mix. However plastic sounding mixes can be very apparent when one goes down this rabbit hole. Here are a couple quick fixes I found for mine.

Tracking environments that are not treated can give a sort of high sheen sound from reflective surfaces, in a mix this can add up. Its subtle but its a sound that can be embedded in your root frequency and if not taken care of at the source, can cause issues.

Use DI like a Radial with a ground lift when tracking instruments to lower noise and ground hum in a signal.

When mixing with plugins, consider mixing at 192khz, to really push the plugins to their greatest resolution. Otherwise you may hear more apparent plastic harshness in the plugin. Also most high end phone DAC's like a S9+ can playback 192khz 24bit Wavs. Offer the higher resolution as a option because the technologies are already there, most do not know we have progressed forward this much.

Attempt to start purchasing low cost hardware, or just one great preamp for tracking. This will allow you to hear what hardware difference is for your mixes.

A Warm Audio 1176 can solve most of your tracking and limiting problems and would be my first purchase with a good pre.

Avoid cable based interfaces for tracking or monitoring. Try to go for a internal card solution, dante, or optical. USB interfaces on capture can micro distort wav files by inaccurately guessing a sample of a wave, causing a plastic sound. Clocking issues, USB bus requests and grounding issues can also be apparent in these interfaces. You can zoom into a wave to see this examples of this.

Mixing on a Summing Mixer can yield very good results, however if your capturing the sum on poor converters or cable based interface preamps (USB, Firewire) the richness from the analog sum can revert back to a plastic sounding capture of the stereo image, resulting in disappointment of the summing solution and a flat sound.

Avoid most mastering plugins, use hardware, when in doubt on a mix just turn up the volume but don't software limit. You may experience more depth.


Your ears are very fragile. Don't ever use headphones. Bass in a headphone
can distort your sonic perception of your mix. It may take a day or to to reset your audio perception. Its why when you start mixing it sounds great, listen to it loud for 10 seconds and it sounds dull. Literally everyone listening to a mix could be hearing something different based on individual ear fatigue. The pros know this and so ear fatigue mitigation is what they focus on. You may have something good but can't hear it. Mix at low recommended volumes and verify loudness with a loudness meter on your phone.

Happy Mixing!

Hope this helps,

D
Old 3 days ago
  #150
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by akai612 View Post
Tried once to create a song DAW based with "boutique" loops and VSTs. Took me 5 minutes to create a whole song...just copy/past. Very convenient compared to working with real gear that takes up to a whole evening to create a song. And yes the result of the DAW/VST track was that it had a awful clean sterlie perfectly quantasized "plastic" sound.

The same goes with moving pictures since ever they started to use exsessively green screening. Looks like total ****e compared to the days where they used real modeling and real background scenery. Prefer any of the old star-wars stop-motion fx or original Planet of the Apes movies compared to the perfectly looking artificial marvel CGI crap they use today...its all about cost-saving and mass-production. That whole digitalisation of arts has grown into a indigestible mass product...
I don’t care what anyone says tho. The sound of digital DAWs is not all that great but it’s good to my ears. Put it like this. I came from hardware and outboard gear. Tracking out and all that. I feel I deserve to not have to do it anymore lol. I can create music and save it in a safe place. It just makes sense where technology is at now. But, I do understand what you’re saying tho. I’m not knocking FL studio users. But I’ve heard more cheaper quality sounding music come from there, than any other DAW.
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