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How Madlib deal with Copyright ? Plugin Bundles
Old 17th November 2018
  #31
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smack Dammit View Post
Some of y’all kill me with this your stealing people’s work ish,this is what HipHop is built on period.... These record companies have been robbing their artists for decades they are the real a-holes if you ask me, just seen George Clinton on msnbc the other day and he was explaining that he hasn’t seen much money for all the sampling of his music even though it was cleared for Dr Dre, Snoop and many others to use,go figure! Now I do agree if the record generates big money the artis should be paid if not you should be happy guys like Madlib finds your records and give it new life or brings attention to what you did many moons ago...
Ahhhh... but this makes enormous assumptions. What kind of deal did the artist have? Remember, artists generally give away all their rights to the sound recording in exchange for an advance and all recording costs. That's a choice they make. Many artists are doing it differently these days. It also makes an assumption that the artist was the sole writer, and typically they are not. The other writers deserve to be paid when what THEY write is used whether it's on the first recording or on someone else's recording, because they wrote it. This also assumes that neither the artist nor the songwriter have recouped their advances. While it is common for artists to not recoup because they often roll up additional expenses like travel, music videos, living expenses, independent promotion, etc., writers typically do NOT unless they are also artists and cross-collateralized. If they are not cc'd or if they are not the artist, then they only have to recoup their publishing advance and they typically do recoup their publishing advance.

I'm not knocking you, I'm just saying that most of the folks in this thread don't have a REALLY SOLID grasp of exactly where all the money comes from and where it goes and who gets it and why.

I also dislike the "this is what hip-hop was built on" mentality. Hip-hop wasn't built on stealing people's stuff. Just that back in the day it was uncharted territory and nobody knew what to do. Nobody even knew HOW to clear a sample. Nobody knew how to coordinate between the owners of the sound recording and the owners of the song for sampling. It took years to figure it out. So yeah, a lot of hip-hop (but certainly nowhere near all) was built on sampling, but not intentional theft.

The reality is that there are SOME artists and writers and labels who really don't care if you sample them and not clear any of it. So have at it. But others do, and it's their stuff so you have to ask. Some people don't care if you sneak into their backyard and take their lawnmower when they aren't using. Other's want you to ask before you run off with their lawmower without permission.
Old 19th November 2018
  #32
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
I agree 100% if you release a record that generates a lot of money, it's only fair to clear the samples. But in most cases, it simply isn't financially feasible to clear everything. As I mentioned, I sometimes use 10+ disparate samples combined into something new, akin to a 'collage'. Maybe a major label would be able to clear so many dozens of samples, but otherwise, there's no way around it.
Old 19th November 2018
  #33
I think we can also flip the argument on its head. How much music isn’t being made/released because of sample clearance issues? I see where Chris Carter is coming from, but I don’t think this is so binary an issue. If you took Bob James take me to the mardi gras and looped the first few bars and that is your music- then damn that’s a) overused b) not original or especially creative and c) you owe bob money for being your session musician. How much is up for debate but you can’t get blood from a stone in some cases.

Now say you have a song that is some combination of original playing and songwriting and you have a break in there that the Mardi Gras beat will take to the next level. Is that worth 100% of your publishing and 50 grand? Nope that’s just the artist/estate/lawyer being a ****. It’s their right I suppose but they are stifling the artistic community. Should you throw a point or two of royalties to the original artist? Absolutely. Better yet, go find the session musicians who played your sample and hit em up.

Then you have the case where some tiny fragment of music is taken and manipulated beyond recognition. Then you have publishing company trolls scouring songs for bits of uncleared samples that they can sue for. Sorry but I don’t pay Gibson every time I record my guitar. I’m not using your composition but I’m taking something and making a new texture from it. At best I owe you a pennies worth of mechanical royalties.
Old 20th November 2018
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrazilianCat View Post
So, somebody know how madlib deal with copyright ?
he just blaze it
Old 24th November 2018
  #35
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atma's Avatar
I think this is a super complex issue where both sides have valid points. It gets to the point where it's like arguing about abortion or some kind of political/religious ideological issue. I'd like to think that there's some middle ground where everyone can be happy...
Old 24th November 2018
  #36
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
I'd like to think that there's some middle ground where everyone can be happy...
I think it's more the outright stealing that just grates on me. If someone sent me an email that was along the lines of, "Listen, I'm working on a song and there's a song of yours I love and I sampled part of it. I'm broke but your sample really makes my song work and I want to use it but I can't afford to pay you at the moment, but how about if I credit your song as the sample source on the link for my song so that if people want to hear the original, they can find you. On top of that, I don't expect to make anything, but if my song blows up, I'd be more than willing to come back to you and negotiate with you to pay you fairly for using it since I'll be making money with it."

That'd be the middle ground where I'd be more open to working with someone and letting them use a sample of my stuff.
Old 24th November 2018
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Anyone that gets mad about sampling should just have their **** get sampled even more. Have fun suing someone for a track on SoundCloud in 2018. Good luck with that.

Ppl thought accountability w record labels was bad in the 70s, good luck squeezing money out of an independent label these days
Old 24th November 2018
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Smack Dammit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
Ahhhh... but this makes enormous assumptions. What kind of deal did the artist have? Remember, artists generally give away all their rights to the sound recording in exchange for an advance and all recording costs. That's a choice they make. Many artists are doing it differently these days. It also makes an assumption that the artist was the sole writer, and typically they are not. The other writers deserve to be paid when what THEY write is used whether it's on the first recording or on someone else's recording, because they wrote it. This also assumes that neither the artist nor the songwriter have recouped their advances. While it is common for artists to not recoup because they often roll up additional expenses like travel, music videos, living expenses, independent promotion, etc., writers typically do NOT unless they are also artists and cross-collateralized. If they are not cc'd or if they are not the artist, then they only have to recoup their publishing advance and they typically do recoup their publishing advance.

I'm not knocking you, I'm just saying that most of the folks in this thread don't have a REALLY SOLID grasp of exactly where all the money comes from and where it goes and who gets it and why.

I also dislike the "this is what hip-hop was built on" mentality. Hip-hop wasn't built on stealing people's stuff. Just that back in the day it was uncharted territory and nobody knew what to do. Nobody even knew HOW to clear a sample. Nobody knew how to coordinate between the owners of the sound recording and the owners of the song for sampling. It took years to figure it out. So yeah, a lot of hip-hop (but certainly nowhere near all) was built on sampling, but not intentional theft.

The reality is that there are SOME artists and writers and labels who really don't care if you sample them and not clear any of it. So have at it. But others do, and it's their stuff so you have to ask. Some people don't care if you sneak into their backyard and take their lawnmower when they aren't using. Other's want you to ask before you run off with their lawmower without permission.

You too are making assumptions, in the case of Parliament (George Clinton, Bootsy Collins and Bernie) did the majority of writing and production.. Yes not all Rap/HipHop was using samples but a very large portion was so how was it not built on sampling, Red Alert,PE,Big Daddy Kane, Eric B and Rakim, Gangstarr, Pete Rock and CL, Main Source,NWA,The 45 king,Biz Markie I can go on and on.. I dislike using words like stealing and theft (your words not mine) because that was never the intent more like taking something jazzy or obscure and making it funky and that’s still going on to this day and better yet guys like Kingsway,Adrian Younge,etc making vintage sounding recordings for you to sample for a fee..
PS if you don’t think HipHop was built off sampling well all you have to do is look at the tools they was using to create it,Oh snap it was samplers and drum machines...
Old 24th November 2018
  #39
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smack Dammit View Post
You too are making assumptions, in the case of Parliament (George Clinton, Bootsy Collins and Bernie) did the majority of writing and production.. Yes not all Rap/HipHop was using samples but a very large portion was so how was it not built on sampling, Red Alert,PE,Big Daddy Kane, Eric B and Rakim, Gangstarr, Pete Rock and CL, Main Source,NWA,The 45 king,Biz Markie I can go on and on.. I dislike using words like stealing and theft (your words not mine) because that was never the intent more like taking something jazzy or obscure and making it funky and that’s still going on to this day and better yet guys like Kingsway,Adrian Younge,etc making vintage sounding recordings for you to sample for a fee..
PS if you don’t think HipHop was built off sampling well all you have to do is look at the tools they was using to create it,Oh snap it was samplers and drum machines...
Exactly what assumptions was I making? I think you are misunderstanding my use of the words "stealing and theft" with regard to "intent" of early hip-hop records; and my thoughts on sampling in the early days of hip-hop.

I think Parliament is a lousy anecdotal example. For one, you have no idea what kind of deal George Clinton had with Casablanca. And the publishing, which is currently under Bridgeport is mired in controversy. And nobody knows what kind of advance he received on publishing. Back when Parliament was doing their thing there were absolutely ridiculous advances being thrown around that would take centuries to recoup and artists were consequently signing horrible deals (other than the crazy advances). Not to mention that George Clinton was not the best businessman back when he made these deals.
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