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How do YOU compress your drums w/ heavy 808's/ sub bass? Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 2nd May 2018
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris carter View Post
Often if I have hard time tuning a 808 style kick drum I'll play it an octave (or two) higher where it's easier for the human ear to determine pitch. The human ear is designed for maximum detail in the mid-range. It's not so good at detail at the extreme highs and lows. So the same thing for some bell type sounds that have really high fundamentals - if I think it's out of tune, I'll play it an octave or two lower where it's easier to determine pitch.
Yep, this is exactly the right advice. Any kind of super low bass frequency can be really difficult to articulate pitch properly via hearing—I always transpose up an octave or even 2 when composing sub bass because it becomes immediately obvious if something is clashing / out of tune.

I've heard a number of records that have tracks where the sub bass is slightly out of tune, to where it creates a 'beating' effect—similar to when you're tuning a bass guitar and the lower string is slightly off and you get that phase cancellation effect.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #32
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I guess I kinda assumed that the guy that was asking was already pitching his drums up and down.
But yeahpitching drums up and down to hear the tone of them definitely helps.
If you can’t determine the pitch or intervallic relationship to other drums, playing notes on a piano can help you determine pitch intervals and help you learn what to listen for so it’s quicker for you in the future.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #33
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Yeah I pitch my drums already, but good advice nonetheless. I seem to have a lot of trouble getting THAT sound when it comes to trap kick and distorted sub combo. It hits so hard. Sometimes I use a more transient kick and layer it either with a sine or other sub sound or an 808 with a long tail. Then I’ll compress the two together to give them more unity.i often can’t tell in songs if there is a separate kick and bass sound or it’s just one sound.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac_music View Post
Yeah I pitch my drums already, but good advice nonetheless. I seem to have a lot of trouble getting THAT sound when it comes to trap kick and distorted sub combo. It hits so hard. Sometimes I use a more transient kick and layer it either with a sine or other sub sound or an 808 with a long tail. Then I’ll compress the two together to give them more unity.i often can’t tell in songs if there is a separate kick and bass sound or it’s just one sound.
yea like some songs sound like the 808 is hitting super hard like a kick but there isnt a kick in there. How would you achieve that? do some type of hard compression on the initial transient maybe quick release?
Old 2nd May 2018
  #35
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varun213 View Post
yea like some songs sound like the 808 is hitting super hard like a kick but there isnt a kick in there. How would you achieve that? do some type of hard compression on the initial transient maybe quick release?
In an original 808 there is the kick, just minimize the release.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #36
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The kick on the 808 has several editable options, so it really depends how it's been programmed.

In general, if you're looking for punch and impact, you'd compress using a pretty deep threshold with a fairly slow attack (i'm talking up to 40ms, depending on your threshold & ratio), and a very fast release (just start at the fastest setting and back it off until it sounds right).

The slower the attack, the more of the initial transient will pop out; the faster the release, the punchier that attack will become. Inversely, as you begin to slow the release time, the smoother it will become.

That being said, these settings are all interdependent and altering the ratio or threshold will often require adjustments to the attack and release:

For very high ratios I tend to use a slow attack and fast release; with low ratios, it's usually a faster attack and slower release.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
The kick on the 808 has several editable options, so it really depends how it's been programmed.

In general, if you're looking for punch and impact, you'd compress using a pretty deep threshold with a fairly slow attack (i'm talking up to 40ms, depending on your threshold & ratio), and a very fast release (just start at the fastest setting and back it off until it sounds right).

The slower the attack, the more of the initial transient will pop out; the faster the release, the punchier that attack will become. Inversely, as you begin to slow the release time, the smoother it will become.

That being said, these settings are all interdependent and altering the ratio or threshold will often require adjustments to the attack and release:

For very high ratios I tend to use a slow attack and fast release; with low ratios, it's usually a faster attack and slower release.
that really helps me conceptualize it so much better


this 808 has to be one of my fav 808's ive heard in a moder hip hop beat. if you can check it out could you maybe break this one down on how you think this 808 is processed and/or if there is a kick invovled?

YouTube


really nice 808 to me
Old 5th May 2018
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varun213 View Post
that really helps me conceptualize it so much better


this 808 has to be one of my fav 808's ive heard in a moder hip hop beat. if you can check it out could you maybe break this one down on how you think this 808 is processed and/or if there is a kick invovled?

YouTube


really nice 808 to me
yeah, there's some really solid bass there. if you listen, a little over a minute in, there's a short break-down where the 808 kick (without the long release) is clearly audible by itself. it seems like they've layered that with the longer-release melodic bass throughout the majority of the track; i'm fairly sure the 'tuned' bassline isn't just an 808 with long release, if that makes sense; it's another fairly simplistic bass synth (likely just a tuned sine wave). so it's essentially that simple, short 808 kick layered with some kind of tuned sine-wave synth patch on top, to give the 'boom' to it.

as far as processing, it's kind of literally impossible to even speculate, as we don't know what their original source material sounded like to begin with, or what they used to compress or process the drums with. there are just too many possibilities to even guess.

i think it's better time spent experimenting with your own **** and forging your own path, based upon your specific tools and aesthetic ideals, rather than chasing down other people's sounds, because that's often times a dead end. the more time you spend learning your tools and gathering experience, the easier it will become to mold your own sound like clay, into your ideal. it's really just a matter of the time you put into it to refine your comprehension levels, expertise of various tools available, and your personal aesthetic sense.
Old 6th May 2018
  #39
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I don't hear any 808s in most current songs.
All just kicks and synth sub presets.
Old 6th May 2018
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808BD View Post
I don't hear any 808s in most current songs.
All just kicks and synth sub presets.
really? so moog bass more so than actuall 808s? that cant be. I hear tons of distorted 808s
Old 7th May 2018
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varun213 View Post
really? so moog bass more so than actuall 808s? that cant be. I hear tons of distorted 808s
Me and u should start experimenting to get that perfect kick/bass combo and then post it up on here and say how we did it. Maybe we can learn from eachother. I’m gonna try some things out and report back.
Old 8th May 2018
  #42
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Judging by the reference, I can see what you asking for. the low-end parts are composed in spectrum and volume to not cause distortion on the bass buss where these parts are limited, not compressed. General rules for that sound: Compose the beat, all 808s and kicks to one buss, limiter on that buss, adjust the volume until it is in balance with the rest of the mix, if some part\sample in the buss becomes distorted, just lower the gain of this part\sample. Big bass notes means just long tails, avoid clashing long notes with kicks or set up an additional quick release side chain off the kick to the long notes.

Last edited by DAH; 8th May 2018 at 08:04 AM..
Old 8th May 2018
  #43
For 808s best practice is to start with good samples. You can get really good 808s these days online from your favorite drum kit seller.

When i mix anything instrumental wise i rarely compress individually. For 808s i might do some light hpf / lpf filtering to make it a little cleaner. Then i almost always use the pro tools plugins "lofi" or "air distortion" (one or both) to bring out the boom in the 808. Thats all it needs most times
Old 9th May 2018
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac_music View Post
Thanks for the responses everyone. Now I’m wondering why I bought an SSL compressor and a Drawmer, in addition to my WA76

Hopefully I can use them for something. Just got the Dione (SSL comp) hooked up and it’s not making as much of an impact on the sound as I thought it would. It’s not much better, if better, than the Waves G comp or NI Bus comp. I heard all this talk of hardware making such a big difference but I’m not really hearing it to be honest. Of course I’m using the SSL on the master, not drum bus. The Drawmer 1978 is coming in next week. Never really tried hardware comps in person so I had to spend the bucks. Hopefully I won’t regret it, though I can’t lie, I kind of regret it already.
On one track you probably will not hear much difference at all...it’s when you are compressing on input 24-48 tracks that a solid Preamp, EQ, and compressor chain will show it’s true worth.
Old 9th May 2018
  #45
In addition, I will compress snares and claps from an 808, but the kick tends to get muddied up when compressed. If you’re using a short 808 kick as opposed to the big “booooooooom” of the longest decay time kicks, than perhaps a few dB of compression with slow attack and fast release can bring out the initial thump of the drum. Also, are you using a real 808 or samples? That makes a difference because the sample will be exactly the same each and every hit, whereas the hardware will have very subtle variations with each hit. Sometimes evening those out very gently can be useful.
Old 9th May 2018
  #46
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the SSL and 1978 comps aren't really meant as 'color' compressors. i'd go with a 1960 or 1969 if you're looking for color / saturation / warmth, etc.
Old 9th May 2018
  #47
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I think if you have a good sample you dont need to compress an 808. Levels, EQ, Saturation and your set. A lot of guys dont realize there's still bass in some of the other parts conflicting because the level is below the visualizer. Find an eq with really steep filter 96.
Also if you sidechain are you using a click as the sidechain input?
Maybe someone else can chime in on that just my 2c.
Old 9th May 2018
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgee View Post
I think if you have a good sample you dont need to compress an 808. Levels, EQ, Saturation and your set. A lot of guys dont realize there's still bass in some of the other parts conflicting because the level is below the visualizer. Find an eq with really steep filter 96.
Also if you sidechain are you using a click as the sidechain input?
Maybe someone else can chime in on that just my 2c.
is the fabfilter pro q2 eq considered as one of the best on the market?
Old 10th May 2018
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varun213 View Post
is the fabfilter pro q2 eq considered as one of the best on the market?
You dont need Pro Q-2 but it is a fantastic tool, definitely one of the best. The workflow of it is second to none. Also I was going to mention I listened to that future song, a good way to get a different vantage point is just to toggle between the side and the mid to hear the relationship.

If you have Pro Q-2 on 808/Bass using the sidechain with the kick you now have both the bass and kick on the visualizer and can subtract out some frequencies to emphasize the kick really easily.

Happy trunk rattlin
Old 10th May 2018
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgee View Post
You dont need Pro Q-2 but it is a fantastic tool, definitely one of the best. The workflow of it is second to none. Also I was going to mention I listened to that future song, a good way to get a different vantage point is just to toggle between the side and the mid to hear the relationship.

If you have Pro Q-2 on 808/Bass using the sidechain with the kick you now have both the bass and kick on the visualizer and can subtract out some frequencies to emphasize the kick really easily.

Happy trunk rattlin
damn that eq is dope. I never wanted to stereo out 808's they definitely lose their impact i feel, have you tried?
Old 10th May 2018
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varun213 View Post
damn that eq is dope. I never wanted to stereo out 808's they definitely lose their impact i feel, have you tried?
I've mixed in mono and done LCR plenty of times but now, I just check if my mix is mono compatible using panipulator or klanghelm vumt. Also depending on the reference track you might have it backwards these guys are making the 808s surround everything not just in frequency but also the stereo image. I use a bit of spreader in my sampler and then use a tool to mono just the low bass on my 808. As far as how it hits just first dial in the beater of the 808 using the AD then make sure to raise sustain/release the right amount. I get close to the sound just using 1 sampler instance all you need but, might be worth kepeing your eyes out for an rBass sale
Old 10th May 2018
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgee View Post
I've mixed in mono and done LCR plenty of times but now, I just check if my mix is mono compatible using panipulator or klanghelm vumt. Also depending on the reference track you might have it backwards these guys are making the 808s surround everything not just in frequency but also the stereo image. I use a bit of spreader in my sampler and then use a tool to mono just the low bass on my 808. As far as how it hits just first dial in the beater of the 808 using the AD then make sure to raise sustain/release the right amount. I get close to the sound just using 1 sampler instance all you need but, might be worth kepeing your eyes out for an rBass sale
do they just widen the 808 by making it stereo a bit? I would try to stereoize synth basses and it works to an extent but it always has phase issues which is why I stopped.

I use Rbass and it really helps for sure i love that plugin for synth bass and 808s
Old 10th May 2018
  #53
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I've never owned an original 808, but I would imagine that it's a strictly mono output for all of the sounds; stereo outs wouldn't make sense for an analog drum machine other than for panning.
Old 10th May 2018
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varun213 View Post
do they just widen the 808 by making it stereo a bit? I would try to stereoize synth basses and it works to an extent but it always has phase issues which is why I stopped.

I use Rbass and it really helps for sure i love that plugin for synth bass and 808s
It's whatever works for you. Translating to the car or the club oc just make sure it's mono compatible. I always keep the lower freq of the 808 mono. When I am in ableton I sometimes use the simpler spread less than 15% and then I put a utility and mono just the bass. There are many ways to make things bigger I dont use chorus or haas delay or (LCR) but some cats do. As far as phase problems sometimes I just add different saturation and it's good.
Old 13th May 2018
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
I've never owned an original 808, but I would imagine that it's a strictly mono output for all of the sounds; stereo outs wouldn't make sense for an analog drum machine other than for panning.
All mono yes.
Old 17th May 2018
  #56
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I would not recommend putting the bass and kick on the same bus. It seems your issue is a eqing issue; not compression. You got to make room for the bass
Old 18th May 2018
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgee View Post
I think if you have a good sample you dont need to compress an 808. Levels, EQ, Saturation and your set. A lot of guys dont realize there's still bass in some of the other parts conflicting because the level is below the visualizer. Find an eq with really steep filter 96.
Also if you sidechain are you using a click as the sidechain input?
Maybe someone else can chime in on that just my 2c.
I disagree strongly on the steep filter! If you’re talking about using it over the 2-buss or on a sub-mix of bass/kick.... A high pass filter that steep is going to cause serious phase-smearing in the low to low-mid ranges of the track and in general that can make it difficult to hear other EQ and compression choices.

I very often HP individual elements in a track so that the bass and kick can have their own frequency space holding down the bottom of the mix. I also choose (based solely on the song) if the kick or the bass is going to be the “driver”.

One needs to sit below the other, and the balance needs to be set precisely, because if the mastering engineer brings up the bass area, in general he’s effecting both the bass and kick. So if it’s the bass that holds the very bottom, I’ll actually HP the kick drum exactly at the point where it drops off just at the fundamental frequency. I’ll put a little low bump at that frequency(often 60Hz or so for me, but some 808’s are as low as 40Hz), and use either another filter or more often a shelf to make that slope just a little sharper but the key is only on that individual instrument!....At that point you’ll have the attack of the kick and the body of the bass working in tandem. In the scenario where you’ve got an 808 “thump” with a short decay along with a sub line, you can try compressing these with a longer attack (to let the kick transient through) and a release timed to the track (to avoid distortion from too fast of a release as well as to make it breathe with the song) I always tune the kick to the track. Sometimes a fifth up works really well, and sometimes making it a few cents out of tune can make it poke through if it’s not something that sustains a long time.


A final point: you’ll find it difficult to balance an 808 kick with a really long decay and a sub-bass part. They will clash with each other and tend to eat all your headroom making the track sound quieter. Sometimes sampling and “playing” the 808 sample is the way to get that deep sub sound, and other times using a short “thump” of an attack along with a sustained bass part will provide a similar option. In any case I don’t recommend trying to have both the sustained boom of an 808 and a sustained synth/sampled sub-bass line at the same time.
Old 18th May 2018
  #58
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Old 18th May 2018
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyklane View Post
I disagree strongly on the steep filter! If you’re talking about using it over the 2-buss or on a sub-mix of bass/kick.... A high pass filter that steep is going to cause serious phase-smearing in the low to low-mid ranges of the track and in general that can make it difficult to hear other EQ and compression choices.

I very often HP individual elements in a track so that the bass and kick can have their own frequency space holding down the bottom of the mix. I also choose (based solely on the song) if the kick or the bass is going to be the “driver”.
? ez... linear phase? Whatever sounds good tho.

Check out this video pensado did recently about that wide 808 sound YouTube
Old 21st June 2018
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgee View Post
? ez... linear phase? Whatever sounds good tho.

Check out this video pensado did recently about that wide 808 sound YouTube
Very interesting. Pensado certainly works at a higher level than I do, so I’ll have to take his work for it. I’ve been widening the bass synth for years but not the kick. I’ll have to try it!
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