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Best sounding sampler plug-in
Old 31st March 2018
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Best sounding sampler plug-in

So i had a Yamaha motif back in the day and sampling on that thing was amazing, so full and rich as well as depth and clarity(was using cubase as daw).

i use Ableton now and feel like simpler and sampler just don't cut it, all my samples seem to sound extremely unappealing, lets say coming off a record into apollo twin duo with a 1073 unison plug-in to capture the original sound is good but doesn't have the depth of the Yamaha motif but when dropped directly into arrangement sounds decent, but when throwing the sample into simpler or sampler the sound really starts to sound cheap, i've tried the ni kontact player sampler and its a little better but nowhere near to the motif, is there anyway to get the outboard sampler quality sound with a sampling plug-in? Even when downloading high quality samples off the net they sound like crap once i throw them into anyone of my sampling plug-ins, can anyone recommend something or suggestions on what i might be doing wrong?
Old 1st April 2018
  #2
Gear Maniac
Thats funny I was looking at this, a few minutes before i read your post

TAL - Togu Audio Line: TAL-Sampler

Last edited by eqverb; 1st April 2018 at 12:49 AM.. Reason: .
Old 1st April 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
I use the TX16W sampler: https://www.tx16wx.com/ It's actually free believe it or not, although there's a pro version that adds send FX, but I don't need those. I wouldn't say it (or any software sampler) sounds like the old hardware stuff, but it certainly doesn't make stuff sound worse. Most of my drum samples get sampled on an Akai S2800 (same as 3000) and then recorded into the computer through a 1084 line input. When I use them it feels just like when I used them straight off the Akai sampler.
Old 1st April 2018
  #4
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If you're using the right settings Simpler doesn't change the sound.

Match the volume of the sample on a track vs. in a Simpler and it cancels out when you invert the phase on one of them. (Use Classic mode and make sure warping, filters, envelopes etc. are turned off).
Old 1st April 2018
  #5
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atma's Avatar
I second the Sonic Charge Cyclone plugin. I own a hardware version of it (Yamaha Tx16w sampler) and the software is pretty much as close as you can get to the real thing. Likely the best 12-bit / lofi sampler vst out there today. It does take a bit of finagling to get it set up to actually sample (and just to figure out the OS), but it's worth a little bit of reading for what you can actually do with it.

That being said, it's sort of impossible to completely capture the nuances of hardware samplers in software; there are a lot of things happening that are difficult to accurately model—the nonlinear saturation of the preamps, the early a/d d/a converters, the sampling interpolation methodology, etc,. Hardware samplers now days are so ridiculously cheap (you can find a TX16W for 100$ or less, with the Typhoon OS)—it might be worth investing in a few just to bounce sounds out to and back into your daw. I have 6 or 7 vintage samplers in a couple of racks here just for that.

Last edited by atma; 1st April 2018 at 01:54 AM..
Old 1st April 2018
  #6
Gear Nut
 

thanks for all the replies, i will be looking into some of the samplers your guys mentioned!

Quote:
Originally Posted by explorer View Post
If you're using the right settings Simpler doesn't change the sound.

Match the volume of the sample on a track vs. in a Simpler and it cancels out when you invert the phase on one of them. (Use Classic mode and make sure warping, filters, envelopes etc. are turned off).
believe me i have, i think for whatever reason the 1/4 inch input gain on the motif would saturate the sound so pleasantly and the playback was amazing, i can get some quality samples in through the apollo and saturate them but the playback in simpler just sounds cheap in comparison with the motif.

i'll be looking into different options and when i find something that comes close i'll post it
Old 1st April 2018
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post

That being said, it's sort of impossible to completely capture the nuances of hardware samplers in software; there are a lot of things happening that are difficult to accurately model—the nonlinear saturation of the preamps, the early a/d d/a converters, the sampling interpolation methodology, etc,. Hardware samplers now days are so ridiculously cheap (you can find a TX16W for 100$ or less, with the Typhoon OS)—it might be worth investing in a few just to bounce sounds out to and back into your daw. I have 6 or 7 vintage samplers in a couple of racks here just for that.
i think your right, the preamp saturation on those a/d converters gives a magic touch, i thought that my Apollo twin duo could emulate fairly closely and it does, just gets ruined when i throw it into a sampler plug-in. i might just get the motif again for sampling since i'm already familiar with it but will be looking into the various plug-ins you guys mentioned
Old 1st April 2018
  #8
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atma's Avatar
yeah dude, if the Motif can give you the specific sound you want, then there's no reason not to invest in one for that purpose. Simple as that!

peace.
Old 2nd April 2018
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Sup explorer,

just wanted to say i went back and messed with simpler and made sure all of the settings were off i.e. filter envelop etc and used a high quality sample and made a banger so i'm happy haha sounds full and depthy for some reason before i really wasn't having much luck with the sound quality but this time it sounds amazing, i used a 1073 unison plug-in to record the sample and also threw a izotope exciter on the chain as well as some reverb

i actually recently learned how to set the root note off of C3 to the note of the sample so i can play it up and down in sampler but you can't just set it in simpler for some reason you have to transpose it, so with this sample i actually went from a C3 to an A1(the root note of the sample) and warped it and it really sounded spot on in the A1 area, and good up and down the keyboard, warping the sample really helps to be able to play it like an instrument i love it, and now that i've had some success with the sound quality and playback i think its going to be my go to

i was getting ready to download a couple of the samplers you guys mentioned in this thread but felt like man i don't want to spend time familiarizing myself with a new plug-in and explorers post encouraged me to give simpler another shot
Old 2nd April 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
 

With the default settings Simpler can be a bit quieter than just putting the sample on an audio track - that might have fooled you. Glad you got it working - it's a great tool.
Old 4th April 2018
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artcutech View Post
So i had a Yamaha motif back in the day and sampling on that thing was amazing, so full and rich as well as depth and clarity(was using cubase as daw).

i use Ableton now and feel like simpler and sampler just don't cut it, all my samples seem to sound extremely unappealing, lets say coming off a record into apollo twin duo with a 1073 unison plug-in to capture the original sound is good but doesn't have the depth of the Yamaha motif but when dropped directly into arrangement sounds decent, but when throwing the sample into simpler or sampler the sound really starts to sound cheap, i've tried the ni kontact player sampler and its a little better but nowhere near to the motif, is there anyway to get the outboard sampler quality sound with a sampling plug-in? Even when downloading high quality samples off the net they sound like crap once i throw them into anyone of my sampling plug-ins, can anyone recommend something or suggestions on what i might be doing wrong?

It could be a few things.

1. Audio Interface

As you pay more you will get more transparent sounding interface. You won’t get a phat sound going this route but a more transparent sounding one and IMO, this can be a good thing as you are hearing the samples how they actually are and can tweak samples to sound fatter. I have an Apollo and it sounds very clean yet has cool plugins to beef up your sounds if you want some dirt. Most modern interfaces are pretty clean now anyways though even the cheaper ones but there are subtle differences with higher end stuff.

2. Processing. Chances are the samples in the Motif might have a slight coloration to them. You can add this in the box. Simpler now have some cool filters where you can crank up the drive some for coloration. Also Ableton’s Saturator is a great tool for beefing up samples. As well as Drum Buss, and Dynamic Tube and Redux. Sausage Fattener is also a great cheap plugin for Drums. Don’t be scared to put a little saturation in your drums. You can get stuff really hitting if you use these right and you can add these to your liking.


3. Battery, Kontakt, and Maschine also have a lo fi playing mode to emulate older hardware. These can get your samples knocking a bit more with ease. The list is endless with good free and paid plugins. Geist is cool as well but I do dig the NI stuff as you just turn a knob and forget without tweaking too much if you want to work fast.


I went to software about 15 years ago and at first I did miss the hotter sound of hardware but software is more precise and the key is using that to your advantage. I think the biggest thing you are hearing is probably your audio is too clean from using hardware which sometimes can make your tracks sterile if you aren’t tweaking your samples. I like the software approach now as certain sounds can sound better clean and you can pick and choose what you want to color.
Old 4th April 2018
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgrimes11 View Post
It could be a few things.

1. Audio Interface

As you pay more you will get more transparent sounding interface. You won’t get a phat sound going this route but a more transparent sounding one and IMO, this can be a good thing as you are hearing the samples how they actually are and can tweak samples to sound fatter. I have an Apollo and it sounds very clean yet has cool plugins to beef up your sounds if you want some dirt. Most modern interfaces are pretty clean now anyways though even the cheaper ones but there are subtle differences with higher end stuff.

2. Processing. Chances are the samples in the Motif might have a slight coloration to them. You can add this in the box. Simpler now have some cool filters where you can crank up the drive some for coloration. Also Ableton’s Saturator is a great tool for beefing up samples. As well as Drum Buss, and Dynamic Tube and Redux. Sausage Fattener is also a great cheap plugin for Drums. Don’t be scared to put a little saturation in your drums. You can get stuff really hitting if you use these right and you can add these to your liking.


3. Battery, Kontakt, and Maschine also have a lo fi playing mode to emulate older hardware. These can get your samples knocking a bit more with ease. The list is endless with good free and paid plugins. Geist is cool as well but I do dig the NI stuff as you just turn a knob and forget without tweaking too much if you want to work fast.


I went to software about 15 years ago and at first I did miss the hotter sound of hardware but software is more precise and the key is using that to your advantage. I think the biggest thing you are hearing is probably your audio is too clean from using hardware which sometimes can make your tracks sterile if you aren’t tweaking your samples. I like the software approach now as certain sounds can sound better clean and you can pick and choose what you want to color.
i think your spot on as well as other replies in this thread

i noticed that my samples were getting recored beautifully through the unison 1073 plug, just that simpler play back was giving me a cheap sound, but after turning envelopes and filters off and throwing the exciter from ozone on for saturation with reverb gave me a phenomenal sound.

i have a good amount of NI stuff and use battery all the time, i've also noticed that whenever i route the cells to an audio tracks whether it be battery, omnisphere or simpler i get a much fuller sound so basically all of my midi tracks are routed to audio tracks, i don't know if it makes that much of a difference with simpler as maybe that had something to do with the envelope and filters.

one thing i did notice with the motif the filters were extremely pleasant to work with, at a lower pitch sometimes you would get the rich waterfall type of vinyl sound that would just blow your mind, haven't been able to get there with simpler but i'm sure its there and a truly happy with what i have

also your right about the samples being clear and transparent straight through th interface just got to beef them up
Old 6th April 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
 
atma's Avatar
i think honestly what you're hearing is simply any lack of coloration. though nearly all soft-samplers introduce artifacts and aliasing when you begin pitch shifting or using envelopes, etc., it's very minimal in comparison to the often drastic coloration you get from hardware samplers. simply recording a sample through the analog preamp inputs on a hard sampler can introduce a lot of nonlinearities/saturation, and the interpolation algorithms used to pitch sounds up and down can also hugely affect things.

it's similar to when digital audio first really began to take over and people started recording directly to hard disk (or PC), bypassing the mixing desks, tape machines, etc. they didn't realize how much those earlier technologies actually played a role in making things "sound like a record". All of the intrinsic 'flaws' of old technology (especially analog) introduced innumerable characteristics to the recordings that were suddenly absent when people made the jump to perfectly clean digital.
Old 6th April 2018
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
i think honestly what you're hearing is simply any lack of coloration. though nearly all soft-samplers introduce artifacts and aliasing when you begin pitch shifting or using envelopes, etc., it's very minimal in comparison to the often drastic coloration you get from hardware samplers. simply recording a sample through the analog preamp inputs on a hard sampler can introduce a lot of nonlinearities/saturation, and the interpolation algorithms used to pitch sounds up and down can also hugely affect things.

it's similar to when digital audio first really began to take over and people started recording directly to hard disk (or PC), bypassing the mixing desks, tape machines, etc. they didn't realize how much those earlier technologies actually played a role in making things "sound like a record". All of the intrinsic 'flaws' of old technology (especially analog) introduced innumerable characteristics to the recordings that were suddenly absent when people made the jump to perfectly clean digital.
i think your absolutely right my friend in regards to the coloration, and that makes so much sense about how digital audio really took away a lot of color/warmth/fullness so now we have to take steps to try and apply that, and i know the 1073 uad plug is not quite the same as the real deal but after i gain stage all my tracks and bounce them to audio i go over each one with a 1073 eq and just give a lil extra analog emulated color to everything, then i start doing my mix-down, i feel like that lil 3 band eq gives so much color to all the tracks as trying to get a somewhat of an analog feel, thump shine sheen and shimmer
Old 8th April 2018
  #15
re sampler

I just got Halion 6 it was just on sale.

Lots of bang for the buck.
Old 11th April 2018
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Decimort2vsEPSClassic by User 941069605 | Free Listening on SoundCloud

My EPS 19.5 kHz with max freq settings on 6.67 vs Decimort 2. Look how close I can zone in just by using the resampling knob and freq deviation and filter knob.

First loop is untouched. Second loop is EPS. Next loops are all just decimort trying to simulate the EPS.
Old 11th April 2018
  #17
Gear Nut
 
JR Mastering's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artcutech View Post
So i had a Yamaha motif back in the day and sampling on that thing was amazing, so full and rich as well as depth and clarity(was using cubase as daw).
I agree 100%. I used Korg and Ensoniq too and the sounds were just so full and lush right out of the box.

I've used so many sample sound programs, all the big names. Light instruments like Violins and orchestral stuff is good, drums are great, everything else I've found to be thin compared to the classic hardware synths.

My suggestion is to double and triple things. That's the only way I was able to get thick sounds.
Old 11th April 2018
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfog09 View Post
I just got Halion 6 it was just on sale.

Lots of bang for the buck.
Where did you get the deal at?
Old 12th April 2018
  #19
re Halion 6

It was just recently. They are having another sale on right now 50% off the Absolute 3 bundle.

I bought it right online from Steinberg. I subscribe to Steinberg and they send me an email when they are having a sale.
Old 12th April 2018
  #20
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfog09 View Post
It was just recently. They are having another sale on right now 50% off the Absolute 3 bundle.

I bought it right online from Steinberg. I subscribe to Steinberg and they send me an email when they are having a sale.
Hi cool frog. Is this 499 half off 999 or there is another half off when I add to cart?
Old 12th April 2018
  #21
The full version of the Absolute 3 bundle is $376 CAD which is around $300US

that includes Groove Agent, Halion 3 and a bunch of other VSTs and content.

You get an even bigger discount if you own an earlier version of Absolute or Halion 3 etc.

The last day is tomorrow. The coupon code at checkout is ABSOLUTE2018.
Old 12th April 2018
  #22
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfog09 View Post
The full version of the Absolute 3 bundle is $376 CAD which is around $300US

that includes Groove Agent, Halion 3 and a bunch of other VSTs and content.

You get an even bigger discount if you own an earlier version of Absolute or Halion 3 etc.

The last day is tomorrow. The coupon code at checkout is ABSOLUTE2018.
I copped it. Thanks man.

Halion 6 is a beast but having the session drummers to learn off groove agent 4 is a bigger plus for me.

I heard halion 6 feels like I'm working in a modern S6000 rack.
Old 13th April 2018
  #23
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atma's Avatar
I think Halion by far is the best software sampler out there just in a general sense. It's way quicker to use and chop things with than Kontakt or anything else. In some ways it actually is very similar to the S6000 (which i have here too and still use—it's just much more time consuming. I think the S6000 still sounds better in certain ways, but Halion is as close as you can get to the later era monster hardware samplers.

Sound-wise however it isn't a 'color' sampler.. it does have some aliasing issues that are audible with certain material. On the other hand, the modulation matrix, speed, functionality and simplicity of use is bar-none.

I often times run samples out to various hard samplers and back into the DAW and then will chop and trigger from Halion.
Old 15th April 2018
  #24
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
I only had MPC 2000xl and 3000, compared to the ESI Julia which was quite transparent at 96k, the sound of both units was just mushy, maybe more mid character as in distortion or whatever creating more articulated painting in the mids.
Old 17th April 2018
  #25
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

I don't know what the Motif sounds like as a sampler but I have used plenty of colored samplers. IMO, it isn't that easy to replicate. However, by directly comparing tracks, it often easy to hear how a sampler colors something. Many samplers lack high end, which when you turn the volume up, they may sound like they have a mid range boost when not comparing it to something more accurate. Obviously, certain samplers have other artifacts that make them sound unique. I just don't know that the Motif is super colored, never that, but basically any sampler will color the sound some, and the year makes me think it may be similar to say an Akai MPC 2000 or something.

That said, as I really tried to emulate samplers in my DAW, I actually found I enjoyed more transparent samples. However, I heavily EQ them before they hit the converters. They are also typically heavily layered. I feel I get any sound I really want, but I certainly don't feel I am missing anything, while gaining high end detail. On one side, it's nice to just run something through a machine of your choice and just love the sound. I honestly enjoy the control of cleaner converters, filtering, and EQ. I typically don't use distortion or saturation plug ins, but I am not trying to make my music sound like a 90's sampler anymore either. I find modern converters with processing to be a better sound, assuming you are not totally set on very specific coloration/artifacts certain samplers give.
Old 18th April 2018
  #26
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
I typically don't use distortion or saturation plug ins
Really?? I can't imagine mixing anything without saturation. Pretty much every plugin I use has some kind of color/saturation/non-linearities modeled from analog components. I can't think of any record mixed using pure, perfect digital that genuinely sounds good to me.

It makes me think of what the classics (Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, etc.) would have sounded like had they been recorded digitally straight into pro-tools or something.
Old 18th April 2018
  #27
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3rd Degree's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
Really?? I can't imagine mixing anything without saturation. Pretty much every plugin I use has some kind of color/saturation/non-linearities modeled from analog components. I can't think of any record mixed using pure, perfect digital that genuinely sounds good to me.

It makes me think of what the classics (Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, etc.) would have sounded like had they been recorded digitally straight into pro-tools or something.
I am just talking on the sample. I find it is unnecessary as the record has saturation, and this is compounded by eqing the sample (with hardware) as well as layering. I am not saying I wouldn't ever use saturation, I am just saying I typically don't, and don't find it to be a go to. I use it on all sorts of other sources however.
Old 19th April 2018
  #28
Lives for gear
Tal Sampler sounds really good. It emulates a couple of vintage samplers. And will read your Akai banks.
Old 19th April 2018
  #29
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atma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Degree View Post
I am just talking on the sample. I find it is unnecessary as the record has saturation, and this is compounded by eqing the sample (with hardware) as well as layering. I am not saying I wouldn't ever use saturation, I am just saying I typically don't, and don't find it to be a go to. I use it on all sorts of other sources however.
Gotcha—yeah, if something is sourced from vinyl it's superfluous. I think really the best coloration for vinyl samples is honestly just whatever your choice of vintage sampler imparts upon it from the preamps/bit & sample decimation/pitch shifting interpolation. Even then, I'm very careful not to overdo anything, as vinyl in general has such limited bandwidth and dynamic range.

On a random side-note I was actually thinking about this the other day, because if you do some simple calculations based on an average S/N ratio of vinyl, you'll find its about the equivalent of 12 bit! I think this is possibly one reason 12 bit samplers tend to sound so good with vinyl, perhaps because you're not actually losing much information in that conversion, but instead it's taking some of that analog noise-floor and giving it a harder edge or crunch.. who knows..
Old 11th May 2018
  #30
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blaugruen7's Avatar
i really love halion. only scratched the surface. but if you really want to use the sampler as a sampler. digg deap into the mudd and create sounds and vanish into space this is a wounderful program. sooo deep.
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