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Rap / Hiphop production techniques have stagnated in the past 5-10 year Plugin Presets/Expansions
Old 27th February 2018
  #181
Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
as an ole school head that likes and understands both side of the appeal, how do the people that call new stuff ignorant feel about groups/artists like snoop. N.W.A or too short that were blatantly misogynistic?
I think the early music had a comedy edge to it, and when that left I just heard a bunch of angry empty threats and negative energy.

Too Short similar to a dirty comedy record, that just happened to have some tight ass beats.

NWA straight outta compton was good. Efil 4 Zaggin - I thought the production was good, probably among Dres best, but the lyrics were too coarse for me.

I felt the same about snoop doggy style; great production lyrics too much. never bought another snoop album after that unless you count 2001.

Last edited by S_A_P; 27th February 2018 at 10:12 PM.. Reason: clarity
Old 28th February 2018
  #182
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I think production in Hip Hop has advanced since a decade ago.

It is now clearer, more multi-layered, and uses more spacing than before.

The advance in software and plug ins and processing power shows in the music.

These days a beat tape using sampled loops made on an MPC sounds pretty dated to me.

And the beat programming has advanced too, as has the variety of sounds used.

It is all about what one listens to...examples at the end of the post.

With so much Hip Hop being online, it is not possible to have the hours in the day to keep on top of it all, so opinions will differ.

As for Trap, Drill, Grime etc those are not "pure" Hip Hop but they are Hip Hop's musical cousins, and there are areas where they and Hip Hop intersect.
Certainly Grime evolved out of the UK Garage scene, culturally the generation who started in it were not the people going to loads of Hip Hop jams and making UK Hip Hop, they were on pirate radio stations rhyming over sped up Garage with a distinct flow pattern from UK Hip Hop, a different vibe, which evolved mainly in parallel.
But it has elements of Hip Hop and Reggae and DnB and a Grime MC can go over a Hip Hop beat and vice-versa.

As for an example of progression, listen to the difference in sounds, spacing and beat programing between these two tunes.

An expensively produced Game tune from 2008

YouTube


and this less expensively JME produced P Money tune from 2017.

YouTube
Old 28th February 2018
  #183
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atma's Avatar
 

ignorant in what sense? misogyny hasn't really decreased in current times...
Old 28th February 2018
  #184
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
i did listen! it's just a matter of my personal taste, which is unusual. the majority of my favorite artists and composers are fairly obscure european bands/artists that were doing somewhat experimental and kind of art-centric stuff starting back in the 80s.

a lot of it is a simple matter of what i can relate to, or not. for the same reason a great deal of older classical music is difficult for me to relate to, emotionally and stylistically or otherwise.. same goes for the majority of contemporary hip-hop.
Fair enough lol. So you're saying that your disaffection with contemporary hip hop is more about you than contemporary hip hop?

I'd like to check out some of those obscure/experimental artists you mention. Do you have any youtubes or other links to their stuff? Or at least names so I can go hunt them down myself.
Old 28th February 2018
  #185
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boombapdame's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
ignorant in what sense? misogyny hasn't really decreased in current times...
No it hasn't and people forget that like sexism, it is a two way street as both sexes can and do perpetuate it.
Old 28th February 2018
  #186
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
No it hasn't and people forget that like sexism, it is a two way street as both sexes can and do perpetuate it.
Yeah but like racism, the power dynamics heavily favor one side.
Old 1st March 2018
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Heard some UK grime I liked. Would you be able to recommend some artists or tracks?
Rocks Foe
Lady Leshurr (check the Queen's Speech series)
Skepta
and check the beef records between P Money and Dot Rotten
Old 3rd March 2018
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latweek View Post
We get that it's to Hip Hop, what Whitesnake/Cinderella era was to rock.
omg, Cinderella was NOT a good rock band to use as comparison! At least Whitesnake had some serious shredders!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 3rd March 2018
  #189
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The biggest issue is that there is NOTHING new going on.

The advantage for "hip hop" listeners is that the market is overly saturated and that ANYTHING "hip hop" is considered gold.

Thug life yo, yeah, you livin' it, and damed be the common man, yeah, uh-hun, they be not of interest, right?
Old 3rd March 2018
  #190
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HAHA. I was all about Ratt as a child. I had an older brother as a kid in the early 80s, so his Ratt tapes were what i had to listen to when i was probably 4+ years old!
Old 3rd March 2018
  #191
f33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovessuperstrats View Post
The biggest issue is that there is NOTHING new going on.

The advantage for "hip hop" listeners is that the market is overly saturated and that ANYTHING "hip hop" is considered gold.

Thug life yo, yeah, you livin' it, and damed be the common man, yeah, uh-hun, they be not of interest, right?
talking about being tough and rich is alot more appealing to a 20 year old than being broke and in love or sad
Old 4th March 2018
  #192
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
talking about being tough and rich is alot more appealing to a 20 year old than being broke and in love or sad
Don't legitimize the troll.
Old 5th March 2018
  #193
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I think part of the issue is that with the move towards bedroom laptop production and virtual instruments (vs. sampling old records), the lack of any credible musicianship becomes glaringly apparent.

There was a novelty in the sample based approach that was akin to the visual art of collage, and the utilization of snippets of soul/jazz/funk players gave at least some semblance of musicianship to even the simplest of compositions (as well as the combination of the sounds of both analog recordings and early digital [samplers, etc.], along with the organic timing sensibilities of the former juxtaposed with the rigid quantization of the latter).

In comparison, the modern synthetic hip-hop lacks pretty much all of those qualities—great musicianship, novelty/progressiveness, the organic sound quality and timing of actual musicians playing together, etc.

In every respect, I find it a de-volution from even the earliest hip-hop/electro/detroit techno/etc.
Old 5th March 2018
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
talking about being tough and rich is alot more appealing to a 20 year old than being broke and in love or sad
That may be true, but it's NOT acceptable.

Rappers should be really into (you know who can't say because the mods are, well can't say) because he's about the same thing. Money money money.

Anyways I digress, I love a lot of hip hop elements and can stand rap to some degree.

For me the pinnicle of "hip hop" is that idiot crap people play in their cars in my mighty whitey hood. It's worse than nails on a chalk board, it's not even "hip hop" anymore, it's noise.
Old 5th March 2018
  #195
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovessuperstrats View Post
For me the pinnicle of "hip hop" is that idiot crap people play in their cars in my mighty whitey hood. It's worse than nails on a chalk board, it's not even "hip hop" anymore, it's noise.


You won one internet today!

To be clear I like hip hop! I listen to it, I use hip hop elements in my music. But also to be honest there is this huge pile of stupidity in a corner of this genre. In my city it's those guys n girls, straight from the ghetto tanning toaster in their anthracite second hand or leased mercedes. Stunning eye candy, when they cruise by, not to mention the sophisticated soundtrack.

Although I really can't say if the balance between crap and quality stuff shifted with time. If so I guess because it is much easier to make this music and one has to remember, that there are always enough stupid consumers for stupid music.
Old 5th March 2018
  #196
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@.drIX. refer to what I said to you about Hip Hop's aversion to intellectualism, this explains the stupidity.
Old 5th March 2018
  #197
f33
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i explain this all the time.

hip hop has always been a young persons music, it reminds me of Punk in a lot of ways. Its loud, offensive and has roots that most people wont/dont understand

Most people think of punk now like it green day or the terrible pop punk that was around in the late 90s or the precedents like the ramones, when it started it was much more varied and was really a social and/or political statement.

Suburban whites may listen to it, and you may know no american black people but they make it and they do listen to it.

If you have zero knowledge of poor black culture in america then its gonna even sound more crazy. All that trappin(selling drugs) that kids talk about, they may not be doing, but it has been done, and there are aspects of that culture that are still around in that culture.

Many people want what they can't have or live much like people love to see gangster movies. People aren't for killing or stealing/robbing but the power appeals to young minds that want idealize that type of power and control, at an age when you have no power and control.

Of course as and adult, you know that gangsters are really parasites on society and the economy but as a kid it looks cool to make lots of easy money and talk to hot club girls, living a sort of 'nobody can tell me what to do' life.

as someone that is 40+ without kids i see this being the biggest problems with people my age is that they don't remember being a kid and having older people telling them how stupid their music is and how it was better in their day.

I guarantee about 99% of 80s/90s 'classic' music at one time had some parents or older dude saying how it sucked and was better back i the day
Old 5th March 2018
  #198
Gear Head
@boombapdame I think we agree on that one!

@f33 not sure if that was (at least partially) targeted at my post, if so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
i explain this all the time.

hip hop has always been a young persons music, it reminds me of Punk in a lot of ways. Its loud, offensive and has roots that most people wont/dont understand

Most people think of punk now like it green day or the terrible pop punk that was around in the late 90s or the precedents like the ramones, when it started it was much more varied and was really a social and/or political statement.
Well said. But that doesn't really change anything about the fact, that there is this really, really bad part of hip hop. One can identify it because it has the intellectual properties of a sandwich.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
Suburban whites may listen to it, and you may know no american black people but they make it and they do listen to it.

If you have zero knowledge of poor black culture in america then its gonna even sound more crazy. All that trappin(selling drugs) that kids talk about, they may not be doing, but it has been done, and there are aspects of that culture that are still around in that culture.

Many people want what they can't have or live much like people love to see gangster movies. People aren't for killing or stealing/robbing but the power appeals to young minds that want idealize that type of power and control, at an age when you have no power and control.
Uh mate, that is not an US specific phenomena. You can't come with black ppls poor life in the US to tell my why you have ppl running around in Germany (+ German passport), where I life, acting like they were finally and fully disabled. Here are a couple funny stereotype rappers from Germany

- The category "I am a f*cking gangster and control my hood with guns. (Btw I am end 30 ish) I sell a lot of blow!"
No you don't this is Germany. You can't just pick up a gun from your local supermarket here. The only thing you did was eating enough steroids to finally resolve your brain.
(These may not be confused with some that do the similar stuff in a very ironic, smart and funny way. Very creative stuff out there as well. They can laugh about themself.)

- The category "Look, I transferred my brain into biceps. Oh and I am gangster. Except I b*ng your mom I don't know any further words."

- The category "Uh I make trap. As I come from a rich middle class boring as home, thats what I can mumble about."

All of those are nothing you would consider as cool. No matter of your age. Unless you have an iq below potato.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
Of course as and adult, you know that gangsters are really parasites on society and the economy but as a kid it looks cool to make lots of easy money and talk to hot club girls, living a sort of 'nobody can tell me what to do' life.

as someone that is 40+ without kids i see this being the biggest problems with people my age is that they don't remember being a kid and having older people telling them how stupid their music is and how it was better in their day.
Well I don't think this is age dependent. I seem to be younger than you and the main thing that changed here in this part of hip hop since I was a teenager, is the colour of that mercedes to cruise around with. I already thought of those as very special ppl back then. (Ok trap wasn't here yet back then. But same stupid ppl with different beat.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by f33 View Post
I guarantee about 99% of 80s/90s 'classic' music at one time had some parents or older dude saying how it sucked and was better back i the day
I don't think that hip hip sucks/sucks today in general. I like it, like to spit on stage, love to listen when gifted artists play with words like they just had s*x with Goethe. I don't have problems with ppl consuming what they want. Still it would be far from reality to deny that there is this part of hip hop, which is just pure stupidity.
Uh and to that gross content lacking pop punk you referred, there is the hip hop version of that already.
Old 6th March 2018
  #199
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I actually remember there being a number of really good German Hip-Hop artists back in the late nineties/early 2000s. Had a native introduce me to some of it, though I honestly can't recall names at this point!
Old 6th March 2018
  #200
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
I actually remember there being a number of really good German Hip-Hop artists back in the late nineties/early 2000s. Had a native introduce me to some of it, though I honestly can't recall names at this point!
There were and are super cool ones. Many.

Some of the old and good stuff
- Samy Deluxe
- Dendemann
- Absolute Beginner
- Ferrris MC
- Blumentopf
- 5 Sterne Deluxe
- Afrob
- Creme De La Creme
- Eins Zwo
- Curse
...

I will collect some more and post then via edit later.
Old 12th March 2018
  #201
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Fanu's Avatar
Damn those Oshun tracks are nice! ^
Old 13th March 2018
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .drIX. View Post


You won one internet today!

To be clear I like hip hop! I listen to it, I use hip hop elements in my music. But also to be honest there is this huge pile of stupidity in a corner of this genre. In my city it's those guys n girls, straight from the ghetto tanning toaster in their anthracite second hand or leased mercedes. Stunning eye candy, when they cruise by, not to mention the sophisticated soundtrack.

Although I really can't say if the balance between crap and quality stuff shifted with time. If so I guess because it is much easier to make this music and one has to remember, that there are always enough stupid consumers for stupid music.
Hey I don't have a problem with this EXCEPT for I'm old and I DON'T have a problem with "hip hop" persay.

I'm just tired of the overly overdone "oh my ****ing god jesus christ that is the same as the last one" nonsense.

Other than that, I'm a musician, I respect any/all aspects. <mod edit>

Long live music.
Old 13th March 2018
  #203
Gear Head
Hey @lovessuperstrats,

I think this aversion to intellectualism, as @boombapdame put it earlier, is frankly speaking a form of stupidity.
I also don't have a problem with these folks. I just had a really good laugh reading your previous post, mate.
Old 13th March 2018
  #204
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boombapdame's Avatar
@.drIX. it is and one of many ways it was/is manifested in Hip Hop is when rappers would deflect critique of antisocial ideas they may consciously/unconsciously release in the form of music by saying they keep/kept it real as a blanket defense of certain "isms"
Old 13th March 2018
  #205
mp3
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Hate the stupidity? Do something about it.

Consume the good stuff. There's plenty out there. In fact there's more in the past few years (on and off the billboard charts) than at any other point in the last 40 years.

Or contribute some of your own. Its art. You're an artist. Hop to it (pun intended)...

Or do your part to help us fix our condition. Art reflects life. Life, for black people (the majority of the producers and consumers of hip hop) worldwide, is fvcked up. And that's not incidental; its deliberate; we are a persecuted people. And our condition is worsening, so its reflected in hip hop. That's (in part, but not entirely) because hip hop is the real world version of message oriented middleware. We fix our condition and hip hop will follow.

But either way, stop whining about it lol. And if someone uses spurious quotation marks, they're effectively outing themselves as a troll. Don't legitimize people who do that BS. Just keep in mind, you're not legitimate to them...

Quote:
Listen.. people be askin me all the time,
"Yo Mos, what's gettin ready to happen with Hip-Hop?"
(Where do you think Hip-Hop is goin?)
I tell em, "You know what's gonna happen with Hip-Hop?
Whatever's happening with us"

If we smoked out, Hip-Hop is gonna be smoked out
If we doin alright, Hip-Hop is gonna be doin alright
People talk about Hip-Hop like it's some giant livin in the hillside

Comin down to visit the townspeople
We +are+ Hip-Hop
Me, you, everybody, we are Hip-Hop
So Hip-Hop is goin where we goin
So the next time you ask yourself where Hip-Hop is goin
Ask yourself.. where am I goin? How am I doin?

'Til you get a clear idea
So... if Hip-Hop is about the people
And the.. Hip-Hop won't get better until the people get better
Then how do people get better? (Hmmmm...)
Well, from my understanding people get better
When they start to understand that, they are valuable

And they not valuable because they got a whole lot of money
Or cause somebody, think they sexy
But they valuable cause they been created by God
Mos Def, ‘Fear Not of Man’

Definition, diagnosis, and prescription. All right there.

Last edited by mp3; 14th March 2018 at 06:46 PM..
Old 14th March 2018
  #206
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eh, people are never going to get better. people weren't better when hip hop was in its golden age, nor will they be in any foreseeable future. and i highly doubt god has anything to do with it.
Old 14th March 2018
  #207
PHG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanu View Post
Damn those Oshun tracks are nice! ^
That whole album ASASE YAA is worth checking out. A new album BITTERSWEET is supposed to get released this Friday, at least for streaming. I got to hear some of it today, and it sounds great.
Old 14th March 2018
  #208
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
eh, people are never going to get better. people weren't better when hip hop was in its golden age, nor will they be in any foreseeable future. and i highly doubt god has anything to do with it.
The problem with that and most other always/never statements is that in order for it to be true, the inverse (in this case that ‘people’ have never been better) must also be true. It isn’t. All the ‘never’ roads lead to “why not just KYS?”

edit: and the hip hop wasn't better in the golden age either, at least not in this specific sense. There is an earlier era where both the people and the music were better. Didn't last long, as we were on the verge of mass incarceration, the drug war escalation, and reaganomics (not to mention the commoditization of hip hop itself). But still, 'better' happened, and the history books recorded it.

Last edited by mp3; 14th March 2018 at 03:09 PM..
Old 26th March 2018
  #209
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What's funny to me is all this protesting, and most "popular rap" talks about guns/killing 95% of the time.

Eventually, someone needs to wake up. Why does rap have to be about putting people in hursts, or cappin' a ......... like it's nuthin?

Honestly, mix in some originality, just here and there, make it something other than the lemming jump it is now.
Old 26th March 2018
  #210
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@lovesuperstrats it's 'cause violence is embedded in American history. Regarding what you complain about lots of people are awake and don't make that their subject matter but maybe you aren't? Life is both positive and negative.

Last edited by boombapdame; 27th March 2018 at 03:10 PM..
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