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Rap / Hiphop production techniques have stagnated in the past 5-10 year Plugin Presets/Expansions
Old 13th February 2018
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
No commercial talented rappers. Jay Rock, Schoolboy Q, Krit, Chance, Big Sean, Tyler, Vince Staples, J.Cole, Meek, Cyhi, Joey Bada$$, Rocky, Belly... Yall really just sound like yall just don't listen to rap anymore to be honest. Like basically yall just checking on the new Ghostface and Common and Talib and Jay Z records before you pop the biggie CD back in.

Not much else to discuss if people think Migos and (omg please I'd rather you put me out of my misery than listen to) Chief ****ing Keef represent the era and Kendrick is the only good rapper out. LOL yall sound like somebody uncle still wearing the velour sweatsuits and kangol hats with that $150 rope.
5 out of that list of Rappers barely receive spins like they use to so I stand by what I say because this means the majority (Top 10 Billboard ones) is what I referred to.. understand the point being made.
Old 13th February 2018
  #92
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR2011 View Post
5 out of that list of Rappers barely receive spins like they use to so I stand by what I say because this means the majority (Top 10 Billboard ones) is what I referred to.. understand the point being made.
So next you're gonna tell us that white rappers are better because grammys right? Billboard

And you're giving me 8 out of 13. That's a win right? Oh and there's another guy who is talented as hell who has been charting consistently for the past several years. So that's 9 out of 14 then, right?
Old 13th February 2018
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
So next you're gonna tell us that white rappers are better because grammys right? Billboard

And you're giving me 8 out of 13. That's a win right? Oh and there's another guy who is talented as hell who has been charting consistently for the past several years. So that's 9 out of 14 then, right?
No actually being African American I've always rated artists in any genre of music based on their talent.

And to be totally honest I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because on our local Iheart/Clear Channel radio station the Hop hop Billboard Top 10 only has 2 of the Rappers you mentioned in the Top 30..so that speaks volumes really referencing you intended point as for relevance.

My point still stands corrected as majority being that of Kendrick with his hit songs as for quality rappers placing on Billboards top charts with commercial Hip hop.

Last edited by ANR2011; 13th February 2018 at 08:22 PM.. Reason: Typo
Old 13th February 2018
  #94
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR2011 View Post
...I've always rated artists in any genre of music based on their talent.
Now that's what I'm talking about, so why are we even talking about the billboards? Convince me that they say something (anything, really) about the current state of hip hop please? I mean the only real reason to reference Billboard is if you're out of touch with the genre... They track popularity not talent.

Oh and in terms of quality artists charting, you forgot Drake.

And if we talking about charts, then how do you bring chief keef into the conversation?

Last edited by mp3; 13th February 2018 at 09:09 PM..
Old 13th February 2018
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Now that's what I'm talking about, so why are we even talking about the billboards? Convince me that they say something (anything, really) about the current state of hip hop please? I mean the only real reason to reference Billboard is if you're out of touch with the genre...

Oh and in terms of quality artists charting, you forgot Drake.
My intent was never to derail the OP's thread regarding 'Hiphop Production being stagnated for the last 5 to 10 years' because some people enjoy emcees mumble raps etc.. Being old School thats just not me along with being a Producer from a couple decade ago. Bit as mentioned the Quality overall improved regarding Production IMHO. As for the emcees it reverted. Only a hand full are left and relevant really these days and this is unfortunate...(Commercially speaking of course...its as though some kinda weird agenda selection is occuring dumbing down most who attempt to rap)
Old 13th February 2018
  #96
mp3
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And to make your case, your argument consists of Migos, Chief Keef, and Billboard charts. Sounds like you're out of touch my friend.
Old 13th February 2018
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
And to make your case, your argument consists of Migos, Chief Keef, and Billboard charts. Sounds like you're out of touch my friend.
No ..you're missing the point. Basic stuff I'm saying here really... And that's Hip hop talentless rappers top the charts while the talented ones barely get heard so something is wrong..That would be being in touch because I'm watching and seeing the changes in the last few decades..for Commercial Hip hop...Note: I didn't say that's all I listen to or thats the best out there because it's not.

Last edited by ANR2011; 13th February 2018 at 09:52 PM.. Reason: Grammar
Old 13th February 2018
  #98
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@ANR2011 I feel as if commercial Hip Hop isn't going to have a future as mumble rap is disrespectful to a music genre that was once seen as a fad and making disposable music cater to that antiquated but somewhat still "relevant" view.

Last edited by boombapdame; 14th February 2018 at 02:33 PM..
Old 13th February 2018
  #99
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR2011 View Post
talentless rappers top the charts while the talented ones barely get heard so something is wrong..
That's not new. With a few exceptions, I hated the stuff on the charts 20-25 years ago. With a few exceptions, I hate the stuff on the charts today. 20-25 years ago, some good stuff was promoted and the majority of stuff that was promoted was garbage. Nowadays, some good stuff is promoted and the majority of stuff that is promoted is garbage. 20-25 years ago, there was a ton of quality music and a ton of wack music flying below the radar. Nowadays, there is a ton of quality music and a ton of wack music flying below the radar.

I could argue that most of the change you're seeing is not directly related to a change in the hip hop talent pool, but rather a change in the industry. Like for example, as the major labels lost their stranglehold on the distribution points, and the means of production have become more accessible, there has been a lot more music out there to sort through. And yes the ratio of good artists/music to bad is probably lower now than it was when the labels and studio access served as gatekeepers, but that's not specific to hip hop, that cuts across all music genres. And so it really says nothing with respect to the existence of lots and lots of talented hip hop artists right now. They're out there waiting for us to get off our 'golden era this and golden era that' soapbox and go find them.

I mean if boom bap is your thing then there's joey bada$$, homeboy sandman, your old droog, oswin benjamin, and Action Bronson out there doing things right now, just to name a few. No I.D., Alchemist and Black Milk are still holding it down production wise to name a few along with a bunch of new cats I can't remember their names. I mean there's a wealth of good hip hop music out there right now. The game is literally wide open right now. In terms of volume there's so much more music being released now that there was 25 years ago. But that's a good thing. Hip hop is alive IMO.
Old 13th February 2018
  #100
f33
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hip hop has gone thru pop ups and downs, specifically 90-93 and the early 00s. Still was quality in both eras that got outshined by vanilla ice & hammer with 110bpm beats and everybody dancing (early 90s) to that era of Nelly and 50 cent(early 00s)
Old 13th February 2018
  #101
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BezowinZ's Avatar
25 years ago many of the best MCs were on the Hip Hop charts. Wu Tang dropped in 1993, maybe some of the most anti-pop music released and was a major hit. Tribe, Run DMC, LL, Pac, Cube, Naughty, Salt & Pepa, Snoop, Dre, Onyx, Cypress, Scarface, Ren...

Sure, I listen to the "oldies", but I'm always searching for new music/artists. 25 years ago, radio & video aided that search. Today, the best MCs are forced to the underground.
Old 13th February 2018
  #102
mp3
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Fu schnickens were on the charts too. And Craig Mack. Coolio. Warren G. And lots of other wackness. And naughty was wack I’m sorry. And by 93 so was LL.
Old 13th February 2018
  #103
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@mp3 that wackness you named had an audience just as today's trash does. Treach was underrated as an MC if you listen(ed) at that time. TBH I hated at that time pop rap and in current times hate the recent incarnation of what that is and I don't even use the term underground.
Old 13th February 2018
  #104
f33
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craig mack was legit
Old 13th February 2018
  #105
mp3
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Lol nah on treach and Craig Mack lol but I feel y’all so we can agree to disagree.
Old 13th February 2018
  #106
mp3
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oh and @BezowinZ Spotify and soundcloud and YouTube are the new radio and tv. Blogs are the new Source magazine. In fact with the internet the whole notion of ‘underground’ has really lost meaning. As well as the whole idea behind charts. It’s out there homie, if you ain’t finding it it’s because you ain’t looking.

But seriously radio and tv thats like the definition of stuck in the 90s What was that show where you could call in and they would play your video like 20 minutes later?
Old 13th February 2018
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@ANR2011 I feel as if commercial Hip Hop isn't going to have a future as mumble rap is disrespectful to a music genre that was once seen as a fad and making disposable music cater to that antiquated but somewhat still "relevant" view.
Good Point. From the changes of Hip hop throughout the 80's, 90's and earlier 2000's this has been shown and it’s been going downwards lyrically speaking of course. I’ve always felt that Hip hop is a reflection of its community and what occurring similar to ‘Music’s as a whole being the reflection of society altogether it now being that Hip hop has outlast major genres and is the leader society as a whole looks towards it as a leader in Music so that includes the mumbles occurring lyrically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
That's not new. With a few exceptions, I hated the stuff on the charts 20-25 years ago. With a few exceptions, I hate the stuff on the charts today. 20-25 years ago, some good stuff was promoted and the majority of stuff that was promoted was garbage. Nowadays, some good stuff is promoted and the majority of stuff that is promoted is garbage. 20-25 years ago, there was a ton of quality music and a ton of wack music flying below the radar. Nowadays, there is a ton of quality music and a ton of wack music flying below the radar.

I would argue that most of the change you're seeing is not directly related to a change in the hip hop talent pool, but rather a change in the industry. Like for example, as the major labels lost their stranglehold on the distribution points, and the means of production have become more accessible, there has been a lot more music out there to sort through. And yes the ratio of good artists/music to bad is probably lower now than it was when the labels and studio access served as gatekeepers, but that's not specific to hip hop, that cuts across all music genres. And so it really says nothing with respect to the existence of lots and lots of talented hip hop artists right now. They're out there waiting for us to get off our 'golden era this and golden era that' soapbox and go find them.

I mean if boom bap is your thing then there's joey bada$$, homeboy sandman, your old droog, oswin benjamin, and Action Bronson out there doing things right now, just to name a few. No I.D., Alchemist and Black Milk are still holding it down production wise to name a few along with a bunch of new cats I can't remember their names. I mean there's a wealth of good hip hop music out there right now. The game is literally wide open right now. In terms of volume there's so much more music being released now that there was 25 years ago. But that's a good thing. Hip hop is alive IMO.
Yes Hip hop is alive and you made some good points but just as @BezowinZ mentions the commercial charts years ago had more relevant Rappers who sounded good even though they were commercialized. Many like yourself argue that the ‘Gatekeeps’ (ex. Labels, A&R's , Executives, Talent Scouts etc…) kept many back making it an unfair playing ground and now a days there is some control but not as much and I will agree but ‘Only for the Music Producers and Beatmakers benefited. The majority of Rap lyricist haven't taken their lyrics to another level ..they've seemed to have bottomed out lowering the bar regarding commercial Hip hop as we all can see and this is a issue today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezowinZ View Post
25 years ago many of the best MCs were on the Hip Hop charts. Wu Tang dropped in 1993, maybe some of the most anti-pop music released and was a major hit. Tribe, Run DMC, LL, Pac, Cube, Naughty, Salt & Pepa, Snoop, Dre, Onyx, Cypress, Scarface, Ren...

Sure, I listen to the "oldies", but I'm always searching for new music/artists. 25 years ago, radio & video aided that search. Today, the best MCs are forced to the underground.
Excellent points right here!..

Last edited by ANR2011; 13th February 2018 at 11:59 PM.. Reason: Missing info
Old 14th February 2018
  #108
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boombapdame's Avatar
@mp3 as I'm old enough to recall that was a network called The Box not to be confused with NYC-centric Ralph McDaniels Video Music Box and The Box's slogan was "music television you control."
Old 14th February 2018
  #109
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BezowinZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Fu schnickens were on the charts too. And Craig Mack. Coolio. Warren G. And lots of other wackness. And naughty was wack I’m sorry. And by 93 so was LL.
I'll give you Coolio & Warren G, but we'll have to disagree on the others. I didn't rock with Fu Schnickens, but they weren't wack. Mack? Wow! Naughty had anthems. LL was off his peak and almost strictly for the ladies by then, but definitely not wack.

Either way, there were a lot of top MCs on the charts. Those not on the charts still got radio & video play. Anybody considered great by the streets were likely on the radio & tv.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
oh and @BezowinZ Spotify and soundcloud and YouTube are the new radio and tv. Blogs are the new Source magazine. In fact with the internet the whole notion of ‘underground’ has really lost meaning. As well as the whole idea behind charts. It’s out there homie, if you ain’t finding it it’s because you ain’t looking.

But seriously radio and tv thats like the definition of stuck in the 90s What was that show where you could call in and they would play your video like 20 minutes later?
And all require digging.

Of course the underground exists. You don't see a difference between Cardi B & 3D Natee, for example? One sucks and is all over the airwaves, the other is dope and barely heard because she's underground.

I only spoke on the effort necessary today vs yesteryear, not that I can't find good music. Radio & TV provide exposure and put money in the pockets of artists which helps produce future albums. The only thing 90s about them is that the majority of talent can't be found on either.

The Box was cool. Despite me & my boys never calling in, you STILL saw the better MCs regularly, to my point.
Old 14th February 2018
  #110
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR2011 View Post
The majority of Rap lyricist haven't taken their lyrics to another level ..
I don’t know, is there another level to get to? I mean you could make a strong argument that Kendrick is the best lyricist of any era. But really what other levels are there?

I agree there are a lot of gtfoh rappers out there but there are a lot of spitters too. It’s hard to have a conversation absent you guys willingness to get out there and listen. I gave y’all a list of 20 artists to check. Worrying about who is on the charts I still fail to see how that relates. The industry has changed. Charts mattered when radio and tv and tower records and source magazine were how we consumed music.
Old 14th February 2018
  #111
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
@mp3 as I'm old enough to recall that was a network called The Box not to be confused with NYC-centric Ralph McDaniels Video Music Box and The Box's slogan was "music television you control."
That’s it, the box lol!
Old 14th February 2018
  #112
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BezowinZ View Post
You don't see a difference between Cardi B & 3D Natee, for example? One sucks and is all over the airwaves, the other is dope and barely heard because she's underground.

I only spoke on the effort necessary today vs yesteryear, not that I can't find good music.
I get it but what I’m saying is that you and I are basically agreeing, except that being underground doesn't have the same meaning any more. The kids can find you and make up their own minds, whether or not the industry is pushing you across the airwaves. Chance is a great example of that. So is lil uzi vert, yachty, pump and all them soundcloud cats. My 14yo daughter doesn’t listen to the radio. She doesn't check the billboard charts. She doesn’t watch mtv or bet. Those avenues are relics. She is on YouTube and Apple Music and soundcloud. That’s what it is nowadays family. So if she not feeling cardi b then she’s never gonna see or hear cardi b except at that point she evaluates cardi b for herself. Those old outlets are irrelevant.

Yeah you gotta work to find what you like, but honestly you have to remember that when we were young we were the ones pushing those artists into the charts and onto tv and radio. So in effect we were doing exactly that 25 years ago. I remember when I first found a cd shop that let you listen to the cd before you bought it. Dog I promise you I put in work. And I passed much more often than I bought. Things haven’t changed as much as you’re portraying imo. The fact that what was easily available to us via radio and tv was also appealing to us (well some of us - I don’t ever remember liking the radio but that could be because I’m from the DC area as opposed to a major media market like NY or ATL) was a function of OUR youth and relevance, not the music itself. Imo.

Last edited by mp3; 14th February 2018 at 05:18 PM..
Old 14th February 2018
  #113
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BezowinZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I get it but what I’m saying is that you and I are basically saying the same thing. My 14yo daughter doesn’t listen to the radio. She doesn't check the billboard charts. She doesn’t watch mtv or bet. Those avenues are relics. She is on YouTube and Apple Music and soundcloud. That’s what it is nowadays family. So if she not feeling cardi b then she’s never gonna see or hear cardi b except at that point she evaluates cardi b. The outlets are irrelevant.

Yeah you gotta work to find what you like, but honestly you have to remember that when we were young we were the ones pushing those artists into the charts and onto tv and radio. So in effect we were doing exactly that 25 years ago. I remember when I first found a cd shop that let you listen to the cd before you bought it. Dog I promise you I put in work. And I passed much more often than I bought. Things haven’t changed as much as you’re portraying imo. The fact that what was easily available to us via radio and tv was also appealing to us (well some of us - I don’t ever remember liking the radio but that could be because I’m from the DC area as opposed to a major media market like NY or ATL) was a function of OUR youth and relevance, not the music itself. Imo.
TV is an American staple. Can't agree it's a relic. There are popular Hip Hop themed shows, channels dedicated to concerts & videos, Hip Hop dominates commercial jingles... Radio? Maybe.

Agreed, we were supporting those artists. Who's supporting the artists dominating the airwaves now? Someone is watching, listening & influencing what gets played. Your daughter may not be watching, but someone is. TV & radio is catering to who? And let's not forget the same music is dominating the clubs.

Same. I had a shop near my job back in the early 2000s that let you open records. I too pasted more often than not, but that's because I took that opportunity to look for new artists, genres I normally wouldn't, etc.

Chicken or the egg? Hip Hop has become pop and the watered down, less talented artists are what's pushed. What's pushed has influence on trends & tastes. But what's pushed still needs support from the masses for the economics to work. I dig Apple Music, but lesser artists are promoted heavily. Check for new Hip Hop releases and tell me how many dope MCs are there. Play a modern Hip Hop station and tell me how many dope MCs are there. Who are they catering to? Labels, artists & listeners are all feeding the beast IMO.

I'm from NYC. The radio was the **** back in the day. Red Alert, Mr. Magic, Stretch & Bobito, Chuck Chillout, Marley, Kapri, The Awesome 2, etc. all played & broke great Hip Hop. That's a DJs job. I happily relied on them to do that job. The DJ used to BE Hip Hop. Now they're puppets, pushing the worst of the genre.
Old 14th February 2018
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
oh and @BezowinZ In fact with the internet the whole notion of ‘underground’ has really lost meaning. As well as the whole idea behind charts. It’s out there homie, if you ain’t finding it it’s because you ain’t looking.
I'm old and feel the same way. The internet helps level playing fields.
Old 14th February 2018
  #115
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BezowinZ View Post
I dig Apple Music, but lesser artists are promoted heavily. Check for new Hip Hop releases and tell me how many dope MCs are there.
I check all the time. And most of it is still a pass. But I've come across quite a few gems that way. Lotta independent stuff on Apple Music and I love the idea of that even if its a lot of BS to sort through. Just this week I came across some random cat named Shirt, and even though I only like two of his tracks ('Climate Change' and 'Vanity Fair'), that's two more than I would have came across otherwise. Last week it was Audio Push 'Pump Fake' which I don't like the rappers but the beat is dope. And that's on top of all the recent new releases by artists I'm already familiar with. Ghostface, Lenny Grant, Evidence, Scarface, etc. I found Oswin and Droog and Bronson on some random blogs a while back. Sandman I actually ran across at a local underground show, but other than him, all my recent music consumption over the past few years has been thru the new 'airwaves' not the old ones.

I myself was out of touch for a good long while, from about 2003/04 when I started my family up until maybe 2010. So it took me a while to figure out how to find good music nowadays, but now that I have, there's soooo much good stuff out there that I honestly don't understand the complaints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezowinZ View Post
I'm from NYC. The radio was the **** back in the day. Red Alert, Mr. Magic, Stretch & Bobito, Chuck Chillout, Marley, Kapri, The Awesome 2, etc. all played & broke great Hip Hop. That's a DJs job. I happily relied on them to do that job. The DJ used to BE Hip Hop. Now they're puppets, pushing the worst of the genre.
Yeah I see where you coming from on that. We had Donnie Simpson lol. I guess it was really different for you because for me I don't miss radio or tv one bit. I don't even check em. Outside of the major media markets I feel like that was probably all we had back then as far as getting exposed to new music. Until I went to college which, there, the consumption of media is a social function so I was exposed to lots more.
Old 14th February 2018
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
I don’t know, is there another level to get to? I mean you could make a strong argument that Kendrick is the best lyricist of any era. But really what other levels are there?

I agree there are a lot of gtfoh rappers out there but there are a lot of spitters too. It’s hard to have a conversation absent you guys willingness to get out there and listen. I gave y’all a list of 20 artists to check. Worrying about who is on the charts I still fail to see how that relates. The industry has changed. Charts mattered when radio and tv and tower records and source magazine were how we consumed music.
The other level would be Subject topic changes like 'Public Enemy's back in the late 80's early 90's talking about Social Inequalities on a commercial level
(Yes those songs charted).

So at the end of the whether or not people consume music like they use to charts matter or the average hard working civilians who might not have time to purchase a vs or mp3 but stream the song. As I mentioned the agenda from the Music Executives still only care about the numbers rather then the Subject matter so it is what it is currently charting but some Rappers with 'Good Subject matter like Kendrick' are breaking through commercial airwaves and charting on it does make a difference regarding the charts for the 'Majority' who listen to commercial Iheart/Clear Channel Radio.
Old 14th February 2018
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Yall really just sound like yall just don't listen to rap anymore to be honest. Like basically yall just checking on the new Ghostface and Common and Talib and Jay Z records before you pop the biggie CD back in.
pretty much. i've given up on modern stuff.
Old 14th February 2018
  #118
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANR2011 View Post
The other level would be Subject topic changes like 'Public Enemy's back in the late 80's early 90's talking about Social Inequalities on a commercial level
(Yes those songs charted).
That's asking a bit much. There was a brief era in the mid/late 80s when KRS, PE, and Poor Righteous Teachers and them cats were doing the social commentary / edutainment thing. And then NWA came through and shut all that down lol. In the 90s you had a handful of conscious artists and another handful of artists who did a conscious track every now and then and another handful that at the very least weren't on the BS, and the same is still true today, but the vast majority of the 90s hip hop game was violence misogyny and/or materialism. And the same is still true today.

It was commercialism itself that killed conscious hip hop, so really commercial conscious rap is an oxymoron. But that's part of what makes Kendrick so special honestly. I mean they went and mainstreamed the wokest cat they could find lol... I never thought I'd see the day. If you're asking for more of that I would say appreciate what you got homie cause we damn sure lucky to have it! I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we never see another one like him, but I also wouldn't be surprised if ten more kendricks come out of the woodworks in the next ten years. Because again, the game is more open than its ever been. The rap game is closer to a meritocracy than it has been since the edutainment days.
Old 14th February 2018
  #119
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
pretty much. i've given up on modern stuff.
A for honesty lol. Being from the southwest, what do you think of that Vegas cat Euroz?
Old 14th February 2018
  #120
f33
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there's a lot of great hip hop/rap outside the states. the UK/France/Nigeria of the top have been doing some great stuff lately(just off the top of my head)

its like hoops in a way, international play started slow, but its catching up really quick
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