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New Rappers of the Future & their Mix Quality
Old 10th August 2020
  #91
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by asicbeast View Post


The mix got somehow screwed and summed to mono in the video production...Happens to me all the time, video guys just don't hear when they f**k up. Check it out here sounds a lot better.
Old 24th August 2020
  #92
Gear Maniac
 
TikkoRome's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstupid View Post
random thoughts:

i wonder what engineers sad about something like the kinks back in the day
the guitar is totaly distorted! those idiots put holes in the speakers

public enemy's sound must have been terrible for engineers. they were embracing distortion and dirt when everyone wanted to avoid it.

36 chambers also was mixed pretty badly but it's one of the most raw and most important hiphop albums ever.

heh i don't want to defend those kids. i don't like most of this new pop/trap/hop stuff. in fact i think it's uninspired and mostly plain stupid heh. but i think it's a rebellious youth thing to do it intentionally wrong. it's repeating again and again pushing it more and more.

"turn it up, y'all niggas must be outta ya head if your system ain't up to the red" (madib)
I have considered that possibility and really tried to analyze it and give them the benefit of the doubt. That's what lead me to having some respect for Future. Sure, he can't rap for **** but at least, when he decided to mumble his nonsense, he was creating a new sound. I give the same benefit of the doubt to Post Malone as well and extend him a little respect.
These other rappers, and even many of the producers, however; are just copying everyone else and doing it more poorly than the last.
They use FL Studio because they don't understand what they're doing and FL Studio is pretty much fool-proof. You can make a beat on it with absolutely no understanding of music or even any need for rhythm. Its possible to just click around and have a usable instrumental. Someone with no musical understanding (like most producers, including myself, when they first start) end up with these awful beats with these long pads/strings dragging on depressingly over drums. Go back and listen to your own first beats with keyboards or VSTi and compare them to the next SoundCloud rapper beat you hear. Their awful for the same reasons.
I agree RZA must've sounded awful to engineers in the beginning. So much thicker than everything else at the time and sooooo much dirtier. It actually took me a few times before I started liking 36 Chambers because it sounded so dirty. When I hear it now, it reminds me of when my producer and mentor King Joe first died and I was left to figure out how to produce and engineer my own music. I couldn't stand the treble in my own voice so every song I didn't scrap had this low-mid and bass that filled each track and gave it this dirtier sound. A sound that I still revert to often still because its grown to be a part of my sound.
BUT
when RZA's lack of experience, knowledge, and equipment lead to the sound on 36 Chambers it added warmth and rich character to the sound. Even if you didn't like it, there was an artistry and a story to the sonic qualities/flaws.
With this new ****, not so much. Its simply the result of people trying to do things as cheaply and quickly as possible in an attempt to gain money and popularity as quickly as possible. Never taking the time to honor the art, the culture, promote change, or even hone their skills in their craft.
When I hear Post Malone, I'm not a fan but I can hear someone who puts a lot into their craft. Artistically, he's talented, even though he's lyrically basic.
Kendrick has a style to his music that's the result of limitations early in his team's beginning that lead to the artistry in his sound. Joyner Lucas is a talented lyricist and a creative artist.
The rest of this **** sounds like **** because its ****.
Old 25th August 2020
  #93
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TikkoRome View Post
With this new ****, not so much. Its simply the result of people trying to do things as cheaply and quickly as possible in an attempt to gain money and popularity as quickly as possible. Never taking the time to honor the art, the culture, promote change, or even hone their skills in their craft.
That sums it up. Then End.

Old 3rd September 2020
  #94
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TikkoRome's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by asicbeast View Post
Thats not rap. Its singing but not particularly good singing and it's been synthetically tuned in post... Its bubble gum pop.... like Britney Spears. He's not a rapper, he's a Backstreet Boy. I'm not even knocking it. If they'd just call it what it is and keep it off the hiphop stations, I'd have no problem with it at all.

I'm a little curious who tried to cover their mistakes by using entirely too much reverb but whatever.
Old 3rd September 2020
  #95
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TikkoRome's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
The mix got somehow screwed and summed to mono in the video production...Happens to me all the time, video guys just don't hear when they f**k up. Check it out here sounds a lot better.

LOL The mix didn't get "screwed and summed to mono". It may have been summed to mono but, if that screws your **** up, it ain't their fault. You should pay for studio time with an actual engineer and ask them to tell you why that statement is ridiculous.
Old 3rd September 2020
  #96
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TikkoRome View Post
LOL The mix didn't get "screwed and summed to mono". It may have been summed to mono but, if that screws your **** up, it ain't their fault. You should pay for studio time with an actual engineer and ask them to tell you why that statement is ridiculous.

You want to say that the sound here on official video is not summed to mono (hence why I shared "topic" link) ??? It's not mixing engineer's fault, I didn't say that, I said that in video production someone screwed it and summed it to mono.


Old 3rd September 2020
  #97
IMO, the issue is that the youngest generation of merchandise/brand buying music lovers don't listen to music now, they watch it.


a song/a piece of music now....is watched. Its not heard. Its youtube on your phone.....in mono with hardly any audio data left in the file codec


youtube and the video release is everything now and the music is almost fully disposable , its just the backing to the video, "something for the artist to do" to make a video about


and yet at the same time, i feel the youngest generation of artists/producers coming out of memphis and atlanta and the south more recently have had very open minds musically and in a kind of punky ethos have thrown off the expectations that might be on them to produce a "classic" hip-hop sound for their record.

Now we have chorus-effect guitars and mandolins over triplet hi hats sounding like spandau ballet on a trap beat lol

kids like quando rondo and rod wave are valuable artists iMO....even where the records are basic

i agree with the thread though that its a madness.

We all have stunning , lush quality audio files in our DAW, spend all our skill on finessing the arrangement and instrumentation.....

and then chuck it all in the bin for youtube streams...


ive recently noticed totally unheard of producers saying they are multi-platinum producers..........and on checking it out...they are talking about youtube streams....physical CD 16bit wave file single-release sales are but a fading memory


strange times
Old 3rd September 2020
  #98
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
You want to say that the sound here on official video is not summed to mono (hence why I shared "topic" link) ??? It's not mixing engineer's fault, I didn't say that, I said that in video production someone screwed it and summed it to mono.


...do love that tune though....cant beat a bladerunner sample
Old 4th September 2020
  #99
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostman View Post
ive recently noticed totally unheard of producers saying they are multi-platinum producers..........and on checking it out...they are talking about youtube streams....physical CD 16bit wave file single-release sales are but a fading memory
A lot of production work nowadays also consist of people just handing off loops to well-known producers and getting placements with big artists that way. So they might be unheard of, but they're collaborating with producers who are currently on, because their loops are getting used.
Old 4th September 2020
  #100
Gear Maniac
 
TikkoRome's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
You want to say that the sound here on official video is not summed to mono (hence why I shared "topic" link) ??? It's not mixing engineer's fault, I didn't say that, I said that in video production someone screwed it and summed it to mono.


THAT IS THE MIX ENGINEER'S FAULT.
Old 4th September 2020
  #101
Gear Maniac
 
TikkoRome's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
You want to say that the sound here on official video is not summed to mono (hence why I shared "topic" link) ??? It's not mixing engineer's fault, I didn't say that, I said that in video production someone screwed it and summed it to mono.


**** it. I was gonna leave you to talk to an actual engineer, thinking there's plenty more you'll learn in the process but that's probably not gonna happen and I don't wanna be just another stereotypical GS asshole to you so hear it is.....
It is 100% your engineer's fault. If your mix sounds like **** in mono, THAT is your problem, not someone exporting it in mono. Your songs should always be mixed in mono and referenced back and forth to make sure it still sounds good in stereo unless you're trying desperately to never have your song played anywhere.
Virtually all clubs systems are in mono. Having it in stereo would create imbalance because the audience is spread in different locations throughout the club, not all sitting right in the middle. Pretty much anywhere music is regularly played for a group of people who are spread out, the system is in mono.
A lot of phones still play in mono too.
Pretty much the only places anyone will ever hear your song in stereo is SOME of the situations where they're alone. Car, headphones, and maybe their home system. Even then, a lot of people play Pandora through their Alexa. A small device like that with 1 speaker, guess what it plays in. Even if they have a little stereo pill or something, the speakers are way to close together for it to be perceived as stereo from anywhere but directly in front of it. Samsung Galaxy is in stereo if its in your hands and sideways but, last time I was curious enough to check, iPhone "stereo" speakers were too close to hear stereo from more than pretty much right up to your face.
Moral of the story is that, if it sounds like **** in mono, it sounds like **** period.

Also, a lot of clubs play videos when one is available for a song they're gonna play and the stereo effect will be lost for most people watching it on their phone so it really shouldn't make much difference whether the video is mono or stereo.
Old 4th September 2020
  #102
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Michael T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
i think overall sound quality has increased. i have original Cd's from 96 like tupac all eyez on me and BG choppa city in the ghetto. Listening to the original albums I bought back then, those sound no better sound quality wise than the music of today. Different, but not better. Overall in general, for rap, vocals are clearer now and beats hit harder. Better eq and more compression, its a good thing for hip hop imo. One thing thats a lot better is the amount of sub bass in songs now. Back then they used bass on songs but not to the extent of the way bass sounds on trap music now. But I'm talking about music from signed artists. This kid looks unsigned or just barely getting recognized. Probably was doing no different than the other million aspiring rappers recording their own music.
It's funny you mentioned those two particular albums as they are two of the best mixed hiphop albums ever. The low end of BG Chopper City In The Ghetto hasn't been topped by no album yet. The low end isn't distorted to an obnoxious level yet hits low. You would have to have a subwoofer in your trunk to feel it. Also any thing from Hypnotize Minds aka Three Six Mafia was the same way. Today's low end sounds atrocious and lets not talk about the quality. The bass is louder but doesn't hit as clean , low and punchy. Todaya hip-hop lacks punch.
Old 4th September 2020
  #103
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TikkoRome View Post
**** it. I was gonna leave you to talk to an actual engineer, thinking there's plenty more you'll learn in the process but that's probably not gonna happen and I don't wanna be just another stereotypical GS asshole to you so hear it is.....
It is 100% your engineer's fault. If your mix sounds like **** in mono, THAT is your problem, not someone exporting it in mono. Your songs should always be mixed in mono and referenced back and forth to make sure it still sounds good in stereo unless you're trying desperately to never have your song played anywhere.
Virtually all clubs systems are in mono. Having it in stereo would create imbalance because the audience is spread in different locations throughout the club, not all sitting right in the middle. Pretty much anywhere music is regularly played for a group of people who are spread out, the system is in mono.
A lot of phones still play in mono too.
Pretty much the only places anyone will ever hear your song in stereo is SOME of the situations where they're alone. Car, headphones, and maybe their home system. Even then, a lot of people play Pandora through their Alexa. A small device like that with 1 speaker, guess what it plays in. Even if they have a little stereo pill or something, the speakers are way to close together for it to be perceived as stereo from anywhere but directly in front of it. Samsung Galaxy is in stereo if its in your hands and sideways but, last time I was curious enough to check, iPhone "stereo" speakers were too close to hear stereo from more than pretty much right up to your face.
Moral of the story is that, if it sounds like **** in mono, it sounds like **** period.

Also, a lot of clubs play videos when one is available for a song they're gonna play and the stereo effect will be lost for most people watching it on their phone so it really shouldn't make much difference whether the video is mono or stereo.

You made a whole page philosophy of a simple matter of mono compatibility ...


This song doesn't fall apart in mono, that's not the point I wanted to make.


This song has some really nice and tricky stereo space effects that just can't be heard when summed to mono because of the nature of the effects, this being engineering boards I thought people would like to hear stereo mix of this song instead of watching the video with mono sound...

And it's not a common practice that streaming music videos have stereo summed to mono. Usually when that happens is the video guy who's put the stereo track to a mono audio track, or just imported left (or right) side of the audio... I remember there was a Bruno Mars Music video we were discussing here on boards that got messed up in the video production and sounds like there was a phaser on the whole song which is not the case with spotify, itunes or CD versions...

Song and mix shouldn't fall apart, but stereo and wideness does disappear when summed to mono, it's a nature of things....
Old 4th September 2020
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
A lot of production work nowadays also consist of people just handing off loops to well-known producers and getting placements with big artists that way. So they might be unheard of, but they're collaborating with producers who are currently on, because their loops are getting used.
aaaah, riiiiiight . Claiming the overall numbers because you placed your beat in the project. i get you. wow.

The bar for what defines a producer is v low these days
Old 4th September 2020
  #105
Here for the gear
 

Listen to Kanye West and Travis Scott, I don’t think they’re lacking funds to pay people, but a lot of their tracks have quite a bit of nasty clipping.

Could be because these dudes have a big hand in the composition of their stuff, from start to finish, and so they’re clipping their **** running it hot into whatever ludicrous desk they’re sitting at and just taking it as fair trade for the character / perceived loudness of the thing

Also, yeah, maybe the codecs of streaming services. I’ve yet to upload much but god, some of them sound so bad I can only imagine there are a number of compromises having to be made so they translate okay and still sound ‘in-your-face
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