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Mpc X
Old 10th January 2017
  #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
It is fun to watch a couple of people in one thread on one forum proclaim these as "going to change the world" a few pointers
1 Nobody knows how stable the OS is going to be in these, they are built on Linux, which does not automagically mean 'Stability' or indeed 'MIDI tightness'
2 Not using standard computer hardware inside of these is actually a bad move, it can not be upgraded, so when the software is upgraded and adds features that the hardware can no longer handle, away goes your $2k and you need a new unit which basically just has a faster CPU, Akai could have offered upgrades (CPU/RAM) but their business strategy is going to be Live II XX and so on, add to this an extra branch of development for the hardware versions that would have run the standard X86 desktop version if computer hardware had been used, and the extra outlay would not be an extra $1k as some suggest, it would have been much less if any at all, this was a business choice pure and simple.
3 A lot of people will be overly excited about these before and immediately ar the fact, anybody with any sense at all will wait, Akai do not have a great reputation for getting working articles out the door.

I am really interested in the Live myself for erm live work, however i will not be getting on board with these until they have been bomb tested for at least a year out in the wild.
I can't agree with this and here's why.
1. Stability will not probanly be an issue. They had three years to do the work thsts more than enough time. The tightness part was already shown in the video. When the guy punched in the sounds it fell into place just how l use to do on the 2000XL. It has auto sync when that guy played the guitar it fell into place nicely.
Akai is not stupid they know they have to get this right. As a standalone the squencer has always been tight.

2. Why shuld they use standard Computer hardward? Its not trying to be a computer but a dedicated hybrid that that hss the old and welcome the new. People wanted standalone they got it. If you need computer agents the connect it to the computer.

3. Akai has a good rep the messed up with the 5000 and screen problems on the 2000 and elevating start up on a 3.5 floopy to automatically just cutting on. I see customers being happy.
Old 10th January 2017
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smack Dammit View Post
Yeah I don't know about it changing the world, these DAWs now days are just too far ahead of an mpc for some people to change, FL users will still use FL, ableton die hards will still use that and so on. I do think it will be a hit for us older producers and people who grew up on Mpc's and all the tech BS to the side, you gotta admit these two new machines are looking amazing, I too was on the fence at first but I'm routing for Akai on this one... I won't be an earlier adopter either but I won't be far behind..
[Deleted by mod]

Im definitely not giving up S1 or Reason 9 for the MPCx. Its going to work with them for a smoother production .
As soon as it drops lm getting it ane get to work.

Last edited by Bender412; 10th January 2017 at 10:29 PM.. Reason: Political
Old 10th January 2017
  #483
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
These machines have 128 tracks for synths, samples, and/or external MIDI devices, and 8 tracks for audio.
So what's the difference between a sample and audio? Isn't a sample just an edited portion of audio? When I record synths, I record them as either a stereo or mono audio track. Excuse my ignorance, as I'm mostly an audio guy, I've never used midi in my life, I know what midi is and does, but this is still unclear to me. Are you referring to samples as midi clips to be looped?

Thanks.
Old 10th January 2017
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
So what's the difference between a sample and audio? Isn't a sample just an edited portion of audio? When I record synths, I record them as either a stereo or mono audio track. Excuse my ignorance, as I'm mostly an audio guy, I've never used midi in my life, I know what midi is and does, but this is still unclear to me. Are you referring to samples as midi clips to be looped?

Thanks.
Samples would usually be short segments, i.e, drum hits, or drum loops, 1, 2, or 4 bars, which can be chopped and spread out over the pads for further manipulation.

Audio tracks would be full takes, like a traditional DAW. With the MPC Ren, you can record a long audio track, but the machine makes you treat it like a sample, i.e., you have to assign it to a pad, and it will only play as long as the sequence.

Now, it can do both. So, for instance, you could play an acapella vocal track all the way through while you totally manipulate the underlying track using the pads and the touch screen. Full live remixing!

I think people don't realize this is not meant to replace Logic or Pro Tools, but it does kill the Kronos / Motif type machine.

Those machines were often used w the MPC, even though they had drum samples and extensive sequencing abilities on their own. The reason is because the MPC sequencer is simply the best for making pattern based music.

I think I'm going to grab it. Aksys was a disaster for me, and the first couple revs of the MPC software, up until about 1.6, were a disaster.

But, now they're up on 1.9x, it's pretty solid, so I doubt 2.0 running on their own hardware will be too buggy, but you never know with these guys.
Old 10th January 2017
  #485
Gear Head
 

I pre ordered the live

Fingers crossed. My 2kxl is looking at me like
Old 10th January 2017
  #486
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoc View Post
Me, l like dealing with challenge and response lD and codes for a software. I hate dongles. Izotope VInyl was so easy to put on my computer and lm loving the 64 bit environment.
I don't mind non-dongle authorization. I just dislike how some of them put very low limits on the amount of installs you can do. That's why I prefer usb key authorization. I can move authorizations around when I want, without needing to contact anyone. It's as simple as plugging in a USB key.
Old 10th January 2017
  #487
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
So what's the difference between a sample and audio? Isn't a sample just an edited portion of audio? When I record synths, I record them as either a stereo or mono audio track. Excuse my ignorance, as I'm mostly an audio guy, I've never used midi in my life, I know what midi is and does, but this is still unclear to me. Are you referring to samples as midi clips to be looped?

Thanks.
Okay quick detour. In technical terms, audio and samples are the same thing. They're digital recordings of sound. Its in usage where they differ.

Audio is straight forward. its simply a series of sound events captured in a recording. Press record, play the instrument for a few minutes, then press stop. Rinse. repeat.

Samples tend to be shorter recordings (say a single sound event like a drum sound for example) played repetitively. That's where MIDI comes into the picture. You assign the sample to a MIDI note (in the MPC's case a pad), press record, and strike the pad repeatedly. Upon playback, the recorded MIDI notes would tell the sampler when and how often to play the sample.

That sample could also be more than just a single sound. It could be a series of sound events. Like a drum loop or a repeating bassline. Just like the smaller sample above, you would just press record and strike the pad whenever you want that phrase to play again.

Extrapolating on that concept, you could record an entire three minute guitar performance and use it as a sample. In this use case, the sample track essentially acts as an audio track (with a few differences).

So those 128 tracks can go a long way, even for someone who is mostly an audio guy. In fact, back in the late 80s and early 90s people used to use samplers as audio recorders when they ran out of tracks on their ADAT or whatever.

But this really begs the question, if you're not a MIDI guy, why are you looking at a product which is first and foremost a MIDI sequencer? I feel like its a bit square peg round hole...
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Old 10th January 2017
  #488
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soultrane View Post
Samples would usually be short segments, i.e, drum hits, or drum loops, 1, 2, or 4 bars, which can be chopped and spread out over the pads for further manipulation.

Audio tracks would be full takes, like a traditional DAW. With the MPC Ren, you can record a long audio track, but the machine makes you treat it like a sample, i.e., you have to assign it to a pad, and it will only play as long as the sequence.

Now, it can do both. So, for instance, you could play an acapella vocal track all the way through while you totally manipulate the underlying track using the pads and the touch screen. Full live remixing!

I think people don't realize this is not meant to replace Logic or Pro Tools, but it does kill the Kronos / Motif type machine.

Those machines were often used w the MPC, even though they had drum samples and extensive sequencing abilities on their own. The reason is because the MPC sequencer is simply the best for making pattern based music.

I think I'm going to grab it. Aksys was a disaster for me, and the first couple revs of the MPC software, up until about 1.6, were a disaster.

But, now they're up on 1.9x, it's pretty solid, so I doubt 2.0 running on their own hardware will be too buggy, but you never know with these guys.
Ah, ok thanks for the clarity. Yea, I can see that working out ok as I'm mostly working with a lot of guitar and synth loops these days, so instead of using an audio track for a basic simple repeating drum track that last 5 minutes, I'd just use a pad and loop it as maybe a 4 bar "sample". Rinse and repeat with bass parts, piano, etc. Then trigger my parts from the pads and record a performance. THEN I'd have 8 full audio tracks to play over that. That would suite my workflow just fine, quite nicely actually, if I'm understanding this correctly.
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Old 10th January 2017
  #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smack Dammit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenmean View Post
just my two cents...
i think most people working on mpc's have had a daw nearby almost always....hard not have a feeling that the converters on this thing are gonna be on the behringer/made in china side of the spectrum.
the kaoss pad thing and onboard effects kinda make me cringe too....theres a million amp simulations out there but only a few that sound really great...when you start trying to mix a bad amp simulation onto a song it can really suck...direct bass often need some decent multiband plugin work to sound good...im envisioning a horrible grunge power chord on top of a super clean trap beat...yuck...
most younger ppl making music really dont care if somethings standalone...were fully in the era of daw controllers, and push/machine etc are hard to beat.
not to mention abletons very refined timestretching....this thing better sound fat as can be or else theyre going to come really short moving them off the shelves.
my final thoughts are about how alot of modern productions with beats are often done with live drumming...being able to track at least 4 seperate channels of say drum mics and then edit/timestretch/beatmatch them is more common than ever...i wouldnt wanna bother using 2 inputs only if i got a daw that can handle a full band.
That is stuff that you would do in a true daw, I would hate to micro edit some live drums in ableton or FL and those are certified DAWs but that kinda job calls for PT,Logic,Cubase,etc.... Most people never really used the effects in the mpc, I don't see that changing...
Micro editing multitrack drums in ableton couldnt be easier, esp if the drummer played to loosely to an established bpm. this is a pretty dominant technique these days, its as easy as using cntrl+click.

isnt the whole point of using a daw replacement access to effects? at least decent eq processing...if the effects on this thing are as garbage as past mpcs, then whats the point of using it?

also, how many people would actually use the cv gate stuff on it? like, for real? i dont think very many....
Old 10th January 2017
  #490
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HELL YEAH!!! BRIAN MICHEAL COX ON THE X!!!! Its real! And ZAYTOVEN! DO YOU STILL DOUBT THE TIGHTNESS OF THE SEQUENCER? !!!



Old 10th January 2017
  #491
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
Okay quick detour. In technical terms, audio and samples are the same thing. They're digital recordings of sound. Its in usage where they differ.

Audio is straight forward. its simply a series of sound events captured in a recording. Press record, play the instrument for a few minutes, then press stop. Rinse. repeat.

Samples tend to be shorter recordings (say a single sound event like a drum sound for example) played repetitively. That's where MIDI comes into the picture. You assign the sample to a MIDI note (in the MPC's case a pad), press record, and strike the pad repeatedly. Upon playback, the recorded MIDI notes would tell the sampler when and how often to play the sample.

That sample could also be more than just a single sound. It could be a series of sound events. Like a drum loop or a repeating bassline. Just like the smaller sample above, you would just press record and strike the pad whenever you want that phrase to play again.

Extrapolating on that concept, you could record an entire three minute guitar performance and use it as a sample. In this use case, the sample track essentially acts as an audio track (with a few differences).

So those 128 tracks can go a long way, even for someone who is mostly an audio guy. In fact, back in the late 80s and early 90s people used to use samplers as audio recorders when they ran out of tracks on their ADAT or whatever.

But this really begs the question, if you're not a MIDI guy, why are you looking at a product which is first and foremost a MIDI sequencer? I feel like its a bit square peg round hole...
Ah, got it, thanks for more insight. Right, sampled bits of audio, that's what I thought.

Why the MPCX? Well, even though I'm an audio guy, I make a lot of experimental electronic music, but I use hardware synths, guitars, bass, acoustic drums, etc. , and most of it is looped based. I've got two loopers, a DL4 and a Boss RC50, and actually that covers a fair amount of territory. I use my computer using Cubase as a simple tape recorder, and mastering machine. It's old, and I fear it's on it's way out!

When the Roland SP-404 came out, I bought one, still have it and love it, and always thought that if it was a standalone multitrack recorder/looper sequencer with a screen where I could edit my loops, assign to pads to trigger and build compositions, I could have a really great time and get more of my ideas down easier. Then I read about the MPCX and my eyes started to twinkle. Haha. I've wanted an MPC for years, but didn't want to buy used. So yea, I'm looking for a new workflow and studio centerpiece. Plus, I'm looking to investigate working with midi by hooking up my Kurzweil to the MPCX via midi and eventually adding a SUB37 to the studio. Just trying out new stuff.
Cheers
Old 10th January 2017
  #492
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smack Dammit View Post
Yeah I don't know about it changing the world, these DAWs now days are just too far ahead of an mpc for some people to change, FL users will still use FL, ableton die hards will still use that and so on. I do think it will be a hit for us older producers and people who grew up on Mpc's and all the tech BS to the side, you gotta admit these two new machines are looking amazing, I too was on the fence at first but I'm routing for Akai on this one... I won't be an earlier adopter either but I won't be far behind..
MPC 2.0 isn't rewriting the game in the DAW world, but it's bringing the drum machine game into new territory. Regardless of what happens with the software powering the MPC and Maschine, I will never stop using recording/mixing focused DAWs for professional recording and mixing focused tasks, and I hope that companies like AKAI and NI don't go chasing things in that direction and focus primarily on things related to production and sound design.

When you get too caught up in trying to be all things to all people, you loose what makes you unique and significant to a particular and devoted audience in the first place.
Old 10th January 2017
  #493
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Vigilanti View Post
I get wanting to get that vintage vibe from the old hardware, but the technology is leaps and bounds better than what it was back then. I want to hear more extremely talented people making great records with new gear.

It would stand to make sense that you should be able to get the tone and color you are looking for from modern gear and still not sound like a 60's or 70's throwback.
And for people who absolutely need to get a bit of that vintage vibe, they will still have access to the vintage mode plug-ins in the software, and a vintage mode can still be assigned globally.
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Old 10th January 2017
  #494
mp3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelyfan View Post
I make a lot of experimental electronic music, but I use hardware synths, guitars, bass, acoustic drums, etc. , and most of it is looped based.

...

When the Roland SP-404 came out, I bought one, still have it and love it, and always thought that if it was a standalone multitrack recorder/looper sequencer with a screen where I could edit my loops, assign to pads to trigger and build compositions, I could have a really great time and get more of my ideas down easier.
You just described Ableton.
Old 10th January 2017
  #495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danoc View Post
HELL YEAH!!! BRIAN MICHEAL COX ON THE X!!!! Its real! And ZAYTOVEN! DO YOU STILL DOUBT THE TIGHTNESS OF THE SEQUENCER? !!!



Until i have used it i doubt everything, that is how any consumer should be, you are either ridiculously overexcited or being paid.
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Old 10th January 2017
  #496
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DAM YOU GET A MIC PREAMP ON THE MPCX! So if you got a tube mic you can get it!!!!
Old 10th January 2017
  #497
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steelyfan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
You just described Ableton.
I was afraid of that....
Old 10th January 2017
  #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
Until i have used it i doubt everything, that is how any consumer should be, you are either ridiculously overexcited or being paid.
I'll be ridiculously overexcited, and I am not paid! If I was I would have one in my studio!
Old 10th January 2017
  #499
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Dammmmmmmm! with beat detection, dammmmmm! you can put any sample in and it will tell you the bpm dammmm and great time stretch.
Old 10th January 2017
  #500
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
And for people who absolutely need to get a bit of that vintage vibe, they will still have access to the vintage mode plug-ins in the software, and a vintage mode can still be assigned globally.
As a current mpc 3000 user and owner I can assure you there is nothing vintage sounding about the emulation plug ins peace!
Old 10th January 2017
  #501
Gear Head
 

This new mpc makes me yawn I'll be sticking with my mpc 3000/octatrack and toraiz combinations. Can't forget reaper also peace.
Old 10th January 2017
  #502
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ville101 View Post
As a current mpc 3000 user and owner I can assure you there is nothing vintage sounding about the emulation plug ins peace!
The point was that they have built-in tools for people who want to alter the character of their sounds.

I don't want to buy a machine in 2017 that sounds like anything I've already moved on from a long time ago. A modern MPC should present a clean and transparent sound as a starting point for people to work from.
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Old 10th January 2017
  #503
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
The point was that they have built-in tools for people who want to alter the character of their sounds.

I don't want to buy a machine in 2017 that sounds like anything I've already moved on from a long time ago. A modern MPC should present a clean and transparent sound as a starting point for people to work from.
I don't consider there built in tools to be anymore then a gimmick. But anyhow your right god forbid akai actually release a machine that sounds some what musical peace.
Old 10th January 2017
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PettyCash View Post
And for people who absolutely need to get a bit of that vintage vibe, they will still have access to the vintage mode plug-ins in the software, and a vintage mode can still be assigned globally.
I'm so glad you said that some think its going to be super clean LOL but some people want clean, but like you said you can get that vintage mode. People are not listening to the Akai guys when they speak. "Some of the old with the New".
I just changed my mind I will be getting into the 2.0 software, it looks like Studio One and Reason 9. It looks nice and the features that come with it, is off the chain. I might get back into sampling too in a different way.
Old 10th January 2017
  #505
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ville101 View Post
I don't consider there built in tools to be anymore then a gimmick.
No disagreement there. Vintage mode was definitely a gimmick. Hence the reason why they kept it locked to their flagship product at first, even though the emulations were actually just plug-ins hidden within their software and not at all reliant on the Ren hardware being present.
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Old 10th January 2017
  #506
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danoc View Post
I'm so glad you said that some think its going to be super clean LOL but some people want clean, but like you said you can get that vintage mode. People are not listening to the Akai guys when they speak. "Some of the old with the New".
I just changed my mind I will be getting into the 2.0 software, it looks like Studio One and Reason 9. It looks nice and the features that come with it, is off the chain. I might get back into sampling too in a different way.
Not saying at his to be something sterile sounding. Just not something based on trying to recapture the sound of any classic machine. You can do clean without it having to sound sterile.
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Old 10th January 2017
  #507
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Smack Dammit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenmean View Post
Micro editing multitrack drums in ableton couldnt be easier, esp if the drummer played to loosely to an established bpm. this is a pretty dominant technique these days, its as easy as using cntrl+click.

isnt the whole point of using a daw replacement access to effects? at least decent eq processing...if the effects on this thing are as garbage as past mpcs, then whats the point of using it?

also, how many people would actually use the cv gate stuff on it? like, for real? i dont think very many....
I very familiar with ableton and your talking about one track at time and PT,Logic,Cubase can do all your live drum tracks at once! The Mpc X is not meant to be a daw replacement as you can see here, most guys that want it will not be leaving their daw of choice... I do agree about the CV stuff tho as I'll never need them and have nothing to connect them too, I actually hate modular gear/synth's lol synth heads don't kill me...
Old 10th January 2017
  #508
Gear Head
 

I personally dont see much of an upgrade on the x over the ren besides the 10 inch touch screen I don't need the ability to launch clips or record tracks on my mpc. At least me personally. For those looking to jump into the 2.0 software I believe the touch and maybe even the live are the way to go. Also in the future how cheap will it be to repair these newer mpc as opposed to the older more simple legacy models?
Old 10th January 2017
  #509
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PettyCash's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ville101 View Post
I personally dont see much of an upgrade on the x over the ren besides the 10 inch touch screen I don't need the ability to launch clips or record tracks on my mpc. At least me personally. For those looking to jump into the 2.0 software I believe the touch and maybe even the live are the way to go. Also in the future how cheap will it be to repair these newer mpc as opposed to the older more simple legacy models?
The MPC X and Live aren't going to be the right products for everybody, that's why some are concerned about how long the current products will continue to receive updates and support.
Old 11th January 2017
  #510
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I keep going back and forth myself honestly. Fact is, I enjoy buying up toys to create with, however, the 8 audio track limit in standalone mode and lack of 3rd party plugin support (again, in stand alone mode) makes me think why did they even bother making it stand alone in the first place? I can't seem to find anything that would add to my predominantly Ableton setup (I'm sure many of you Ableton users understand what I mean) and it seems that after doing the math, the only thing I keep coming back to is that for the same price of an mpc X, I could get a moog sub 37, Juno 106 and have $500 or so left over lol.

I still keep going back and forth honestly but I can't afford to waste time by being an early adopter/guinea pig.
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