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Sub bass tuning : Trendy yes, but are we making music for human beings or for dogs ?
Old 26th January 2007
  #1
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Zacchino's Avatar
 

Sub bass tuning : Trendy yes, but are we making music for human beings or for dogs ?

Okay, I was just laughing at myself when one of my tracks just HAD to have this kind of trendy "808" sub bass.

You know me I'm not trying to brag about it, it's just the Label I'm in that ordered this kind of song. What can I say... When the final client is satisfied, I'm satisfied. Times to times I'm making music for people, and whenever I can I take some time to devellop my own style.

I don't have a sub, and I'm trying as hard as I can to tune correctly the sub bass to the song. I succeed thanx to my Sony MDR7506 headphones.

The question is :
Now, I'm wondering if it is techically correct to add a distortion insert to be able to tune the sub more precisely (knowing I don't have any sub) ? Or am I going to add odd-harmonics that'll detune the note ?

I posted this because this subject might be interresting... Talking about Psycho-acoustic...
Old 26th January 2007
  #2
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You talking about an 808 sub? Like a sample or from a machine?

I use Ctune and my ears to tune drums...I have been using the Stylus 808 kicks which I can tune to the exact 0 cent I want. I don't think it is a trend to tune drums, more like a neccessity. If you stack 2 kicks that are out of pitch, it sounds bad.

To take it further, the snare needs to hit at the right tuning also. I always experiment there. Usually 2-3 pitches up from the kick sounds "hip hop".

If you tune your sub to the key of the song and then tune the rest of the drums to the sub (and you do it right), you will notice the track will bang way harder. Plain and simple.
Old 26th January 2007
  #3
LCD
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Trendy? Get your facts straight. 808s have been a part of hip-hop since it's inception.
Old 26th January 2007
  #4
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Adding distortion should be fine, if that was your question. I do it all the time to bring out sub kicks better on smaller speakers.
Old 26th January 2007
  #5
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interesting question... to the degree that a pitch is percieved within the sound yes it should be tuned.... very important in fact.... and the answer is in a strange psychoacoustic fact... our ears naturally assume that the lowest note is in tune... and then "stack" everything else on it... and judges the overall intonation from that bass note.... so if it's off... "it's on" to our ears and everything els is "off" makes sense??? so iff somethings wrong and ya cant quite put your finger on it... check the bass... no pitch no problem....
Old 26th January 2007
  #6
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rickrock305's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCD View Post
Trendy? Get your facts straight. 808s have been a part of hip-hop since it's inception.



agreed...neither 808s or tuning them are "trendy"
Old 26th January 2007
  #7
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808's are here to stay. They've been in steady circulation since the early 80's and will continue to be an integral part of the lower end of almost any genre of modern music for decades to come.
Old 26th January 2007
  #8
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Stitch333's Avatar
 

Bagend subs in a big space and all that low end tweaking will be noticed!
Old 26th January 2007
  #9
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Well, here's what I do. Since it's normally hard to tune an 808...I will pitch it up an octave....Tune it then pitch it back down. If the pitching messes with the quality then I pitch it up see what needs to tuned....just using the high pitch one as a reference...then I tune the lower one accordingly. This method actually works very well.
Old 27th January 2007
  #10
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fn86's Avatar
 

whats the easiest and best way to tune kicks and snares hihats etc to each other
Old 27th January 2007
  #11
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There isn't a specific way or method to tuning all of your drums... You just have to listen and make adjustments until it "feels" right.

After awhile you will get used to it... You'll be accustomed to messing with the tuning on a hi-hat until it hits that one "magic" spot that sounds better than everything else in combination with the snare.

Just keep listening and and learn how to find "sweet" spots.
Old 27th January 2007
  #12
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Zacchino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XHipHop
Adding distortion should be fine, if that was your question. I do it all the time to bring out sub kicks better on smaller speakers
My question is answered then !

Quote:
Originally Posted by dementedchord View Post
interesting question... to the degree that a pitch is percieved within the sound yes it should be tuned.... very important in fact.... and the answer is in a strange psychoacoustic fact... our ears naturally assume that the lowest note is in tune... and then "stack" everything else on it... and judges the overall intonation from that bass note.... so if it's off... "it's on" to our ears and everything els is "off" makes sense??? so iff somethings wrong and ya cant quite put your finger on it... check the bass... no pitch no problem....
I'm starting to get it. Very interresting what you're saying about your ears "re-creating" the music in my mind, just like we have a real time tuner imbedded in our mind (hopefully it's free and not in DirectX ^^ -- ok geek joke.. move on).

A note being "Off" is making sence to me when it's about a bass note with harmonics hiding the main tone... BTW do you guys have an idea about a good hardware dedicated to auto tuning instruments ? Donno if it's yet possible. I remember having once seen in a Vienna Symphonic Library "making of" video that they were using hardware auto tuners that looked pretty intelligent to me... Apogee.. Can't tell. But my VSL Chamber Strings are greatly tuned as far as I know.
Methlab, you're talking about Ctune. What is this about ? A Plugin ? Hardware ? UAD / HD plugin ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkchild
i discovered some quite interesting things....for instance, most "thick" snares are actually chords...with the root note being the snare, and the other 2 notes being claps...producers from Dr Dre, to southern producers like DJ toomp all do this
Now THAT is some impressive technique I will definitely tryout !!! HOW the hell did you discovered this ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khameln
Just keep listening and and learn how to find "sweet" spots
SO SO TRUE. I do this all the time since almost an year now. This is also why I stopped ordering my drums folder by "kits" in my sound library HDD.

PS : C'mon don't tell me Sub Basses / SubKicks have always been used in the Hip Hop industry. I mean, not as much as in the lately 3-4 years !!! I'm not a 80s and 90s hip hop specialist though.
Old 27th January 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacchino View Post
Okay, I was just laughing at myself when one of my tracks just HAD to have this kind of trendy "808" sub bass.
I realized this "trend" is here to stay when "if I ruled the world" by Nas came out.

the arrangements got leaner and meaner since then, with less and less bass melodies, somehow morphed into the Neptunes and then bass became less melodious and more "fundamental", like in Dre´s example, because he accentuates more the ends of cycles.

the prototype to all these styles is also one of my favourite hip hop beats of all time. this is what basslines have to do with me. I like the bassline to carry the tune, not the bassdrum/kick. damn, there is more happening in one verse than on most of today´s entire albums. heh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov3b2uTczhQ

regarding the tuning of drums: have you tried to use a pitch detection program to find out the most dominant frequency of a sample and then to load a midi scale plug and to tune your drums accordingly to the nearest/next harmonic key frequency?
I think it could work.
Old 27th January 2007
  #14
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Tibbon's Avatar
Elephant Music...

If you make REALLY low bass music, then elephants... not dogs will the ones hearing it.

Actually, i'll have the double check, but I didn't think that dog's hearing went any lower than humans... only higher.
Old 27th January 2007
  #15
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Zacchino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
If you make REALLY low bass music, then elephants... not dogs will the ones hearing it.

Actually, i'll have the double check, but I didn't think that dog's hearing went any lower than humans... only higher.
Damnit can't correct the titlle of the thread. The only thing I knew about Elephants is their extraordinary memory that I envy every single day.
Old 15th February 2012
  #16
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profplume's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacchino View Post
My question is answered then !




PS : C'mon don't tell me Sub Basses / SubKicks have always been used in the Hip Hop industry. I mean, not as much as in the lately 3-4 years !!! I'm not a 80s and 90s hip hop specialist though.
are u kidding?
Old 15th February 2012
  #17
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Jeezo's Avatar
you hear and FEEL music

System are now more than ever able to handle sub basses (cars , home , movie systems ect)....

808 was used from Marvin gay , to Mikael jackson (beat it is an exemple lyer with real drums) ect ....but as you already mus know french musical culture is non excistent ...when i was doing sub basse music back in 2000 i was like an alien even the hit i made with Mystikal and Soulja slim "ill pay for it" wasn't understound here in Vitry ....(Vitry is what new york is for hip hop in France)
Old 15th February 2012
  #18
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What is this...a sub kick for ANTS????
Old 15th February 2012
  #19
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sick 4 year bumps broz
Old 11th February 2013
  #20
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pabloaugustus's Avatar
 

regional

A lot of the U.S. use of tuned 808s has been regional and isolated to parts of the south for many years before its work its way into pop. Usually in the rhythm of "brazillian clave" (how americans describe it, brazillians don't look at that pattern as clave but its an easy comparison to the cuban equivalent) Here on the west coast you get a lot of the hi-tuned 808s sounding like tom "drops" almost that make a melody instead of a regular beat or bass line.

My point is to add to other peoples posts, the 808 and tuned sub sound has been around forever and in this hip hop era until the last few years much of these sounds haven't made it past regional mixtapes in texas, Louisiana, Atlanta, Oakland.

I like it, it vibrates in me in a way that makes me want to nod my head.
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