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Which MPC is the Best for analogue, warm sound?
Old 15th September 2019
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
You plug something into the inputs and plug the outputs into your monitoring, and see to the sampler being set to monitor the input, i.e. let the sound straight through. No conversion taking place. Just analog stages/line amps/chips affecting your sound then. Have you ever used a sampler?
I have used several, but I'm not sure at all, that the phenomena you mention exists. A sampler is not a preamp or anything, so I'd see no reason why would anyone implement such in a sampler. A sampler is there to sample.

I'm sure that when you "send just through", it still goes through 2 converters, because you can anytime press REC and record it.

But, we can just check the internal structure of samplers and get the answer.
Old 15th September 2019
  #62
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On this image, you can see the ADC of the Akai MPC.



As you can see, the only way the signal can leave the input towards other parts of the sampler is through an IDE cable. Those cables transfer digital data.
Old 15th September 2019
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thysta View Post
I have used several, but I'm not sure at all, that the phenomena you mention exists. A sampler is not a preamp or anything, so I'd see no reason why would anyone implement such in a sampler. A sampler is there to sample.

I'm sure that when you "send just through", it still goes through 2 converters, because you can anytime press REC and record it.

But, we can just check the internal structure of samplers and get the answer.
Check what you need to until you are 'at all sure'. But until you actually sample, the converters don't get involved. You hear them when you play the sampled sound back. Has to be that way, as conversion takes time, and otherwise you'd get latency in thru mode.
Old 15th September 2019
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Check what you need to until you are 'at all sure'. But until you actually sample, the converters don't get involved. You hear them when you play the sampled sound back. Has to be that way, as conversion takes time, and otherwise you'd get latency in thru mode.
When you hit a pad on an MPC and it plays an already digital sample, you hear no latency either.
Old 15th September 2019
  #65
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Focusrite forum

Quote:
The minimum latency the human ear can detect is about 11ms. It would take between 10 and 20 stages of A/D and D/A before we perceived latency in a signal.
Old 15th September 2019
  #66
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thysta View Post
On this image, you can see the ADC of the Akai MPC.



As you can see, the only way the signal can leave the input towards other parts of the sampler is through an IDE cable. Those cables transfer digital data.
hey just to chime in,

you can drive the preamp stage of say a s1000 sampler and direct monitor the output of this.

you can also do other crazy stuff like using the digital input of say a s950 ib109 and hear the converters with direct monitor out, converting a digital signal back into anaolgue.

going back to the ops question , 4k would be top on my list then a 3k or if you ever find a 3500 (not a mpc 5000 as parts where changed to make it more cost effective and ready for consumer market).

i wouldnt touch nothing else,

if your looking for racks best 12 bit s950 or a emax best 16bit s1000 everything produced after this has little to no signature sound.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
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Let audio speak for itself

MPC2000 AmpStage (in other words: No converter involved)


Same with the S950 (last 4 cycles are thru the MicInput)


Another Example of the MPC2000



Does the amp influence the sound? Of course it does.

Does it add a 'special character'? Well.....to me the examples do sound different but thats no surprise cause every ampstage sound more or less different especially when they come from different decades.

Is it worth to buy a sampler for this? meh. IMO no. You probably get this effect with many other devices. you can try to overdrive a HiFi from that time, use one or more of the guitar fx pedals or use a simple tape with monitoring option. The possibilities are endless :D


@ Thysta : There are some sampler that monitor behind the converter (Roland S10 for example) but most sampler moitor before the converter.
peace
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Bollocks. The sound of these thngs is just as much in their analog parts as in the converters. Try pushing a sound hot through an S1000 without sampling (i.e. zero converter involvment) and see how much that makes out of the box's entire character.

This 'it's all in the converters' mantra is getting old. Even now it's never just in the converters, as interfaces with the same conversion chips sound entirely different due to their different analog signal paths.
It seems you keyed in on the "digital converters" part in my post and put that in a vacuum. So far away from context. What I was talking about had absolutely nothing to do with any "all in the converters" mantra. I don't subscribe to any audio mantras or belief systems.

The sound that is associated with those old drum machines (I've built my old setups around quite a few) had a lot to do with the flawed components which happened to sound musically pleasing. Within the context, I wasn't associating "flawed" with unwanted sound as this sound was very much wanted. In old gear, it's often the mistakes or unwanted qualities (at least unwanted by the designers) that end up making them the most desired pieces.

Nobody wanted transformers to distort the sound the way Neve stuff did back in the day. Yet here we are. It's a flawed or unwanted quality in that unit which makes it one of the most sought after pieces in the industry.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47radAR View Post
It seems you keyed in on the "digital converters" part in my post and put that in a vacuum. So far away from context. What I was talking about had absolutely nothing to do with any "all in the converters" mantra. I don't subscribe to any audio mantras or belief systems.

The sound that is associated with those old drum machines (I've built my old setups around quite a few) had a lot to do with the flawed components which happened to sound musically pleasing. Within the context, I wasn't associating "flawed" with unwanted sound as this sound was very much wanted. In old gear, it's often the mistakes or unwanted qualities (at least unwanted by the designers) that end up making them the most desired pieces.

Nobody wanted transformers to distort the sound the way Neve stuff did back in the day. Yet here we are. It's a flawed or unwanted quality in that unit which makes it one of the most sought after pieces in the industry.
Your post stated the sound of the old samplers is 'mostly to do with flawed converters'. And not analog parts. That what you typed.

All I did was point out that there are indeed a LOT of analog parts in those old things that are part of the sound in a big way, not JUST the converters. Of course the converters are also part of it. As are in use how the thing transposes, etc. These things are systems. The entire system makes a sound, not just the conversion. Was my point. But you have run off to somewhere else now, with a sort of overall lecture about old gear that didn't really hold much news......
Old 3 weeks ago
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
Let audio speak for itself

MPC2000 AmpStage (in other words: No converter involved)


Same with the S950 (last 4 cycles are thru the MicInput)


Another Example of the MPC2000



Does the amp influence the sound? Of course it does.

Does it add a 'special character'? Well.....to me the examples do sound different but thats no surprise cause every ampstage sound more or less different especially when they come from different decades.

Is it worth to buy a sampler for this? meh. IMO no. You probably get this effect with many other devices. you can try to overdrive a HiFi from that time, use one or more of the guitar fx pedals or use a simple tape with monitoring option. The possibilities are endless :D


@ Thysta : There are some sampler that monitor behind the converter (Roland S10 for example) but most sampler moitor before the converter.
peace
Aha, once you can't come with arguments, then "Let audio speak for itself ". Cool game.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #71
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Converters ARE involved in those samples. You simply don't understand how samplers work.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thysta View Post
Converters ARE involved in those samples. You simply don't understand how samplers work.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thysta View Post
Aha, once you can't come with arguments, then "Let audio speak for itself ". Cool game.
I don't know whats your problem. I got the impression that you're a bit verwirrt but I would like to help.
The reason I posted audio demos is to show how the amp stage of a sampler effects the signal cause it DOES effect the signal. I interpreted your posts that you don't belive that.

I also think you belive that the signal have to run thru the A/D converter no matter what. And thats not the case with many samplers that have the ability to monitor the signal.
Here is the signalflow of the s900/s950 and if you follow the red line you can see that it's a fact.



So whats your point?
peace
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
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Pre-Amps !!!!!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
I don't know whats your problem. I got the impression that you're a bit verwirrt but I would like to help.
The reason I posted audio demos is to show how the amp stage of a sampler effects the signal cause it DOES effect the signal. I interpreted your posts that you don't belive that.

I also think you belive that the signal have to run thru the A/D converter no matter what. And thats not the case with many samplers that have the ability to monitor the signal.
Here is the signalflow of the s900/s950 and if you follow the red line you can see that it's a fact.



So whats your point?
peace
Sorry I been looking after something like this but haven't found a drawing that was detailed enough.

Sorry guys, I stand corrected, I learned something new.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpiper0815 View Post
I don't know whats your problem. I got the impression that you're a bit verwirrt but I would like to help.
The reason I posted audio demos is to show how the amp stage of a sampler effects the signal cause it DOES effect the signal. I interpreted your posts that you don't belive that.

I also think you belive that the signal have to run thru the A/D converter no matter what. And thats not the case with many samplers that have the ability to monitor the signal.
Here is the signalflow of the s900/s950 and if you follow the red line you can see that it's a fact.



So whats your point?
peace
Oh and sorry, I immediately assumed that the other guy posted the samples in lack of arguments (since last time he came with the nonsense that AD - DA converting causes latency, I mean audible latency).
Old 2 weeks ago
  #77
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Old 2 weeks ago
  #78
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Muser's Avatar
there are 33 degrees of illumination on samplers.
so the answer you get is based on which secret handshake you were taught at the local lodge.
Old 1 week ago
  #79
Gear Maniac
 

Now, all we need is for someone to make a mojo box that duplicates the analogue path of each coveted unit (in/out/thru/whatever)... Or a a plug-in to emulate it all.

The joys of audio rabbit holes!

BTW, I'm fairly new to looking into old MPCs.. And that's how I came to this rabbit hole.

Anyone make good sample libraries or vst's that sampled the output of the samplers? I'm sure there are quite a few, but wondering what people have had luck with.

I'm looking for some drums like on the first Republica album... Those were done on MPC 60 and s3000, although Ready To Go and Drop Dead Gorgeous were further remixed by someone else using Pro Tools. They don't remember what sample library was used, but it's probay something pretty genric/commercial from the early 90's...

In this I think they used drums and and MPC
https://youtu.be/6CSS1JbIpAo

Here's another with more electronic drums
https://youtu.be/2O9f1r2-Xvc

Some more electronic drums
https://youtu.be/Ppen-3hyxEE

And of course Ready To Go.. But this was remixed. They're not sure what was used additionally, except for Pro Tools...
https://youtu.be/JgffRW1fKDk

And Drop Dead Gorgeous.. Sounds like mpc to me, but whatever the case, these are those early 90's drums I'm looking for.
https://youtu.be/CAB7kgKtO8w

For all I know, these samples are available everywhere, in multi packages, but I'm looking for an easy place to look since I'm not very knowledgeable in this era.

Thanks
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