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Thickening up le Vocael....
Old 21st March 2003
  #1
Gear Head
 
JoHoozaFats...'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Thickening up le Vocael....

ok, so i;ve read before that if you rerecord it, or copy and paste, and move over a little bit, it will thicken up the vocals, but what do u guys do for it?
Old 21st March 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Well, lots of times I'll make a copy, crank the hell out of the top(10-12k), roll of lows, and just compress the **** out of it. That will give you some nice "air", but not necessarily thicken it. SO then I'll take te original and eq it for the "warmth".
Old 22nd March 2003
  #3
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Depends on what kind of thick you want. An LA-2a or ADL1000 makes things pretty thick. Neve iron is a different kind of thick. Using chorus or a detuner is yet another.
Old 22nd March 2003
  #4
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
If you're using a DAW...the Bomb Factory LA2A plugin will phatten a lead vocal in a truly sweeet manner.

I'll phatten the vocal in the chorus by tripling the vocal, and fanning those tracks out by 500 samples each, panned hard L&R and mixed about 50% volume to the lead. Works like a charm.
Old 22nd March 2003
  #5
Gear Head
 
JoHoozaFats...'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
does that mean u take a take and copy paste, and move 500 samples in both directions?
Old 25th March 2003
  #6
I was producing an album for a 57 year old Johny Cash style guy, he complained that his vocal (often 'off mic' due to his thrashing around during performances & some un wanted 'mic technique) sounded 'thin'.

I had to agree with him, the accoustics of tracking room were cold, but I figured the mixes had reached 'the end'. To defend myself at such a late hour, I came up with the bul**** line, "There isn't a Bing Crosby" box I can run your vocal through!

Later after he had left, I realised I was (more) full of sh!t (than usual) because I DID have a Bing Crosby device - THE FATSO Jnr!

At about 4am I 'did the right thing' and reprinted ALL the albums mixes with the Fatso on the vocal - WAY BETTER!!!!!

Job done - I got out of there at about 7am..

Old 25th March 2003
  #7
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
The Eventide is one way to do it. I like using a pitchshifter detuned or tuned up (depends on if the singer is always flat or always sharp) a few cents and mixing that with the original vocal. Sometimes I can't get away with stuff like that. On the project I just mixed the band was allergic to any kind of effects. I could put anything I wanted on there but as soon as they heard it I got shot down. There was one song where I had a delay on the vocal really far back in the mix with lots of top rolled off. The first time they heard the mix they loved the space the vocal was in, but in the last chorus of the song there was a break and the delay popped out. And, that was the end of that. I did get away with using an Electric Mistress on a few songs though.
Old 25th March 2003
  #8
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
does that mean u take a take and copy paste, and move 500 samples in both directions?
Dude, sorry I didn't answer this earlier...but Slipperman's response was quite informative.

To answer your question: No, I move the two "clones" back (as in delay AFTER the lead vocal), the first by 500 samples and the second by 1000 samples. Then I group the two clones, pan them, and find just the right relative volume to the lead vocal.

I arrived at the 500 sample rule through some extensive trial-and-error experimentation. I found that if the delay was too short, a phasey cancellation set in; too long, and a bathtubby slapback reverb occurred. When I finally got it sounding "just right," it measured about 500 samples. So that's what my nudge value is set to now.

Finding the correct relative volume of these delayed/panned clones to the lead vocal is VERY important. If they're too loud, it sound really plastic, like bubblegum pop. It's gotta be subtle to the point of unnoticable until you mute them; you should hear a stereo spread and some thickening, but just shy of distracting effect.

Quote:
posted by Jay Kahrs:
There was one song where I had a delay on the vocal really far back in the mix with lots of top rolled off. The first time they heard the mix they loved the space the vocal was in, but in the last chorus of the song there was a break and the delay popped out. And, that was the end of that.
Jay, in PT you can automate mutes on the sends to the delay...I do this a lot. But often you have to set the mute point a little before the break so the delay tails off before the break. I do this in the edit window.

Automating delay send mutes is a great way to sculpt the spacial effects. For that quiet point in the mix, mute the send to the delay on the vocal track for a really intimate sound. Then un-mute it when the orchestration kicks in...great effect.

Then when the chorus comes around, the tripled vocal clones kick in with the 500 sample/copy/nudge/pan trick...now we're "building the flavors" with delay.

This is why I don't use reverb anymore...I find "building the flavors" with delay much tastier. You can work it to the tempo of the song for rhythmic effect, and it sounds so much cleaner and more musical than reverb.

Slipperman, I'm gonna try that "BREAKFAST CLUB" technique you described.
Old 26th March 2003
  #9
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant

Jay, in PT you can automate mutes on the sends to the delay...I do this a lot. But often you have to set the mute point a little before the break so the delay tails off before the break. I do this in the edit window.
I can also mute sends and returns with the console automation. I don't flip it on and do the passes until the band has approved basic mix first, warts & all. Hell, half the time I don't even need to switch the automation on.
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