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Binaural Head
Old 17th March 2007
  #1
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octatonic's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Binaural Head

Hi Tchad,

Other than 'how do I get your job' my main questions would be regarding binaural recording.

How did you start out with it?
What gear are you using?
When do you use it?

How would you suggest someone new to the technique could have a go at it- will any two omni's work or would you recommend a particular approach?
Old 22nd April 2007
  #2
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

Bino

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Hi Tchad,

Other than 'how do I get your job' my main questions would be regarding binaural recording.

How did you start out with it?
What gear are you using?
When do you use it?

How would you suggest someone new to the technique could have a go at it- will any two omni's work or would you recommend a particular approach?
I saw a photo in a catalog of the Sennheiser version that interested me. I made my own using two Sony ECM 50's taped onto headphones but quickly changed to putting the mics in my ears, capsule facing inwards. The mic's frequency response is crap like this but imagery seemed good to me. A little post EQ and they sound great.
Eventually was able to buy the Neuman KU100.
Always my drum OH. Piano, strings, various room sounds.
Still use my ECM50's in the field and to do panning effects for a mix.
Set up a speaker, send instrument to speaker, sit in front of or behind speaker with bino mic kit on head and shake your noggin. Wild stuff ensues. Can leave original signal in the mix for crazy phase cancelations.
Old 22nd April 2007
  #3
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchad blake View Post
I saw a photo in a catalog of the Sennheiser version that interested me. I made my own using two Sony ECM 50's taped onto headphones but quickly changed to putting the mics in my ears, capsule facing inwards. The mic's frequency response is crap like this but imagery seemed good to me. A little post EQ and they sound great.
Eventually was able to buy the Neuman KU100.
Always my drum OH. Piano, strings, various room sounds.
Still use my ECM50's in the field and to do panning effects for a mix.
Set up a speaker, send instrument to speaker, sit in front of or behind speaker with bino mic kit on head and shake your noggin. Wild stuff ensues. Can leave original signal in the mix for crazy phase cancelations.
I have the sennheisers and they are really great fun. Keep saying I should do a project with them.
On another note I remember seeing a set of Neumann KU100 on ebay.de 7 years ago. They had a buy it now of 80 euros
By the time I had clicked the item, they had gone
80 euros!

Anyway, my question..
How is the Neumann?
Much better than others??
Old 22nd April 2007
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by tchad blake View Post
I made my own using two Sony ECM 50's taped onto headphones but quickly changed to putting the mics in my ears, capsule facing inwards. The mic's frequency response is crap like this but imagery seemed good to me. A little post EQ and they sound great.
Exsqeeze me?

Thats sounds mad! Is that a leg pull?
Old 22nd April 2007
  #5
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Exsqeeze me?

Thats sounds mad! Is that a leg pull?
True story.
Old 22nd April 2007
  #6
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
I have the sennheisers and they are really great fun. Keep saying I should do a project with them.
On another note I remember seeing a set of Neumann KU100 on ebay.de 7 years ago. They had a buy it now of 80 euros
By the time I had clicked the item, they had gone
80 euros!

Anyway, my question..
How is the Neumann?
Much better than others??
Most bang for buck. Although they've doubled in price since I bought mine.
Old 24th April 2007
  #7
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octatonic's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Thanks for the response Tchad.
Old 24th April 2007
  #8
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joninc's Avatar
 

i am curious as to what the head itself offers that creates this sound field. is it about the density of the head itself between the 2 mics? surely the angle and mics could be placed similarly without the head so what makes the head magic?

how does it differ from ORTF micing?

(a quick google hunt for Neuman KU100 = nearly $10k new - holy gearslut that's a lot of money!)
Old 24th April 2007
  #9
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

ear canal

Quote:
Originally Posted by joninc View Post
i am curious as to what the head itself offers that creates this sound field. is it about the density of the head itself between the 2 mics? surely the angle and mics could be placed similarly without the head so what makes the head magic?

how does it differ from ORTF micing?

(a quick google hunt for Neuman KU100 = nearly $10k new - holy gearslut that's a lot of money!)
It's the ear canal+outer ear but I've had decent results from a tape box between two KM84s. The head is special though.
Old 26th April 2007
  #10
C/G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Exsqeeze me?

Thats sounds mad! Is that a leg pull?
The Sennheiser binaural head I have has the capsules atatched to an ear phone like assembly so one can walk around the room with the capsules at your ears. Strange but cool.
Old 27th April 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C/G View Post
The Sennheiser binaural head I have has the capsules atatched to an ear phone like assembly so one can walk around the room with the capsules at your ears. Strange but cool.
http://www.ramsete.com/aurora/sennheis.gif

Brilliant things..
Old 6th May 2007
  #12
Gear Nut
 
PureAudiouk's Avatar
 

So.. Lets say you've got 2 pencil condensors (like the neumanns you mentioned)..

and you stick them between a tape box. Or even a balloon or whatever. What direction do you place the mics in to capture binaurally.


I read somewhere that you generally record drums in a small room. Do you find that binaural recording gives you something that traditional overheads might not capture in that small environment?

This would particularly useful for me, as I record my drums in a small room. But having recorded in an old cinema yesterday, I realise I'm missing something in my recordings.

Cheers!
Old 7th May 2007
  #13
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

bino

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureAudiouk View Post
So.. Lets say you've got 2 pencil condensors (like the neumanns you mentioned)..

and you stick them between a tape box. Or even a balloon or whatever. What direction do you place the mics in to capture binaurally.


I read somewhere that you generally record drums in a small room. Do you find that binaural recording gives you something that traditional overheads might not capture in that small environment?

This would particularly useful for me, as I record my drums in a small room. But having recorded in an old cinema yesterday, I realise I'm missing something in my recordings.

Cheers!
I love the head for the top kit. You can't hear it as bino when it's mixed in but it definitely has a flavor.
-Omni's pointed straight ahead or angled toward the outsides of the kit.
Old 8th May 2007
  #14
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matt thomas's Avatar
Old 8th May 2007
  #15
gem
Gear maniac
 
gem's Avatar
 

i do this quite often with these
SOUNDMAN

they are always with me when i travel.

although you have to get a dummy head to or even a baloon
to stick them on if you dont want to sit in front of your drummer
for 8 hours

gem
Old 8th May 2007
  #16
Gear addict
 

I'm a big fan of binaural. It really brings a dimension even on speakers and definitely on headphones (which is around 50% of the listener situation nowadays).
I use it a lot for ambiance but also for backing vocals, sound effects, brushed snare, hand claps, paned guitars (put the speaker of the amp on the side of head), …
I think half of my production has at least one binaural recording.

Actually, I made the head with a styrofoam's head from a fashion shop. I melted two holes in the ears and put two DPA 4060 in it. Quite good but I can definitely hear some resonance from the styrofoam's head...

Oh yes, the questions:

· You talked about Sennheiser stuff. I desperately try to find it… Do you have more infos (like the name)?

· I tried to avoid too much eq/fx on the binaural recording in order to keep the magic (phase relation). What kind of eq/fx do you use?

· I would like to record a drummer or a singer with the binaural mics on him. The problem is I need to send the sound in the headphones and to get it from the mics without interference between them… Have you been confronted to this kind of situation? Do you have an idea?


Thank you tchad
Old 9th May 2007
  #17
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

Senn. bino

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcan View Post
I'm a big fan of binaural. It really brings a dimension even on speakers and definitely on headphones (which is around 50% of the listener situation nowadays).
I use it a lot for ambiance but also for backing vocals, sound effects, brushed snare, hand claps, paned guitars (put the speaker of the amp on the side of head), …
I think half of my production has at least one binaural recording.

Actually, I made the head with a styrofoam's head from a fashion shop. I melted two holes in the ears and put two DPA 4060 in it. Quite good but I can definitely hear some resonance from the styrofoam's head...

Oh yes, the questions:

· You talked about Sennheiser stuff. I desperately try to find it… Do you have more infos (like the name)?

· I tried to avoid too much eq/fx on the binaural recording in order to keep the magic (phase relation). What kind of eq/fx do you use?

· I would like to record a drummer or a singer with the binaural mics on him. The problem is I need to send the sound in the headphones and to get it from the mics without interference between them… Have you been confronted to this kind of situation? Do you have an idea?


Thank you tchad
I mentioned the Sennheisser only because it was the first time I saw a bino mic. I didn't like the sound so I made my own.
I did the drummer thing by clipping the mics to the hps on either side. Used with conventional mic'ing this produces interesting phase anomalies as the player turns his head.
EQ =what ever gets you off.
Old 9th May 2007
  #18
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tchad blake View Post
I mentioned the Sennheisser only because it was the first time I saw a bino mic. I didn't like the sound so I made my own.
I did the drummer thing by clipping the mics to the hps on either side. Used with conventional mic'ing this produces interesting phase anomalies as the player turns his head.
EQ =what ever gets you off.
Thank you tchad
Old 11th May 2007
  #19
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big country's Avatar
 

after reading this thread I decided to make my own version of a binaural head.
spent half of yesterday building the wood part.
this morning I super glued some PZM's to both sides .
took care of some stuff.
went back home , drank me a bottle of wine
I decided it would be a perfect time to try ol'woody out.
so I tuned up the old martin, checked levels
and rocked out, by playing and walking around the head .

thanks... Tchad

matt
Old 11th May 2007
  #20
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

woody!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by big country View Post
after reading this thread I decided to make my own version of a binaural head.
spent half of yesterday building the wood part.
this morning I super glued some PZM's to both sides .
took care of some stuff.
went back home , drank me a bottle of wine
I decided it would be a perfect time to try ol'woody out.
so I tuned up the old martin, checked levels
and rocked out, by playing and walking around the head .

thanks... Tchad

matt
Sounds great man, that's what I call abandon, love to hear it!
Old 11th May 2007
  #21
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big country's Avatar
 

Old 14th May 2007
  #22
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

What a woody

Old 19th May 2007
  #23
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Matchoo's Avatar
 

This is cool

Old 23rd May 2007
  #24
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wildpark's Avatar
 

look at this baby wow

Old 23rd May 2007
  #25
mongrell mixer
 
tchadb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matchoo View Post
Here is a fun example of binaural recording.

David’s Weblog » Virtual Barbershop


Sorry I don't have any specifics on how it was done.
He's saying 'Holophonic' on the site which is distinctly different. The Holophonic head was developed by Hugo Zucharelli in the '80s and as I understood, was a multi transducer array inside what looked like the head of a bullet. It sounded amazing. The demo consisted of a virtual haircut, a box of matches shaken up and down your body, a gas model airplane flying overhead among some others. Very impressive, way beyond binaural with these sounds. Almost hyper-real.
Oddly, the recorded music on the demo didn't sound very good to me.
Bad management of the company led to it's demise. There has been no substitute I've heard that's even close.
Old 23rd May 2007
  #26
C/G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchad blake View Post
EQ =what ever gets you off.
This should be the quote of the month.
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