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Reverbs on Drums Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 7th June 2004
  #1
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GRiFF's Avatar
Reverbs on Drums

I hit one of those, how come I know so much, but suddenly don't know where to start periods recently. I think its because my reverb knowledge could do with a brush up.

Assuming your going for a fairly standard, pop rock mix. What are your starting points and philosophys on using reverb on a live drum kit?

I know this may switch between masses of the stuff and hardly used, and some may want a more coloured sound, others a purer.

What reverbs do you generally pull out, how many different types do you tend to use, what kinds of reflections, room sizes enhance drums the best do you think???
Old 7th June 2004
  #2
Personally, I am happiest when I have used none...

I look forward to Mikes comments...

Old 7th June 2004
  #3
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GRiFF's Avatar
Hey Jules, what music are you working with mostly that you prefer a dry sound?
Old 7th June 2004
  #4
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henryrobinett's Avatar
I only ever put reverb on the snare, and I almost always do this. But what do I know?
Old 7th June 2004
  #5
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not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Personally, I am happiest when I have used none...


Reverb on drums?? Welcome to 1986!!!! Kidding....

.....sort of.......

Really for me if there is something really really wrong with the tracking I might add a small touch of verb but that is just to get it to sound like a good room. Anything else is just too fake sounding to me. Room mics to give depth, a little more to push the drums back an little less to pull them forward and all is good...

... but the 80's are on there way back so this could all change.



I look forward to Mikes comments as well...
Old 7th June 2004
  #6
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toolstudio's Avatar
 

Hi,

for drums I usualy use our old Eventide 2016 on "stereo room" as a general reverb. Then a plate, lexicon 224XL, or the tile room from the PCM70 on snare/toms.

I'm more a dry guy, I use reverbs for space, but try not to hear em to much.

I usualy work with room tracks through 1176, distressor, spectrasonics 610 or chandler tg1.


wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany
Old 7th June 2004
  #7
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Ditto with 1176 on the ambient mics.
No need for reverb then,
if you dont' want some special fx.

ruudman
Old 7th June 2004
  #8
I'm doing alt rock / 'indie' - guitar bands..

Room mic's or even compressed close mic'ed drums give me enough reverb most times... I often run a snare through a distortion plug in - that "creates" a sort of 'reverb'...
Old 7th June 2004
  #9
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GRiFF's Avatar
I thought you might use short ambient reverb on the hats or a big long slushy one on the cymbals maybe??
No?

Just room mics and overheads?

That suits me, I just thought I was maybe missing out on something - I agree, reverb just does sound fake on drums, no matter what I've done with it .
I've found the short decay reverbs are generally more fashionable sounding.

I just recently had to do this moody, sorta snow patrol indie track and the drums have an ambient quality to them. When I've got them upfront their too bulky and in your face, reverb them and its instant '****e'
Ideally, I'd quite like a bit more of a phil spector vibe on them.
Old 7th June 2004
  #10
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Mike Shipley's Avatar
 

I don't use reverb on drums , like most people have said here that its better to use the room or overheads for more depth of field. For some of the "Mutt" oriented pop stuff we will use a lot sounds to make up a snare sound and will use along with the samples etc, some gated reverb and lots of really short delays 'cos he likes the snare to have lengh to it.
With a real kit tho , creative compression is more fun.
Old 7th June 2004
  #11
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GRiFF's Avatar
This information should make my job a bit easier, why did I think reverb was used that much on drums??? Is it another unusual disparity between US and UK techniques?

Ok, I want to modify this question.

What reverbs do you consider for 'pulling together' all the sound sources that might make up a typical rock, pop band?

If your just using the room mics, overheads etc, don't you find it tricky to get the guitars/keyboards/strings/percussion to sound like they share the same natural or unnatural space?
Old 7th June 2004
  #12
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

I find it more easy to mix if there is
a bit air around the instruments
(i.e. amb. mics on drums).
If everything has a bit "breath",
I don't think you have to pull them more together
by using verbs.

If the track are totally dry, well that's another one...

ruudman
Old 8th June 2004
  #13
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djui5's Avatar
 

Natural reverb is your friend. Though sometimes when using smaller rooms for drums I like to put some verb on the snare if it needs it......


But I like to use as much natural verb as I can.....
Old 8th June 2004
  #14
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juniorhifikit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse Cannon
I have never personally gotten a tight delay to work on a snare anything special that goes into getting this to work for anyone??? Any usual ingredients that go into making this work???
Listen to the slap on the drums in Back In Black.

I can't say I've put reverb on drums in over 10 years.
Old 8th June 2004
  #15
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Mike Shipley's Avatar
 

Yep there are delays and also a old 910 harmoniser on the snare on that album , with the feedback turned up and pitched down to give some lenght to the snare on BIB. Pretty standard trick in them olden days
Old 8th June 2004
  #16
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Mike Tholen's Avatar
 

I use an old Quantec QRS for snare drums almost 100% of the time followed by an Alan Smart C1 then into a pair of Nuemann W495 EQ's for shaving off the top end and boost those nasty mids to taste, Makes for a pretty controllable WACK! for snare.
Old 8th June 2004
  #17
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jpaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse Cannon
I have never personally gotten a tight delay to work on a snare anything special that goes into getting this to work for anyone??? Any usual ingredients that go into making this work???
30-40ms, very low feedback, no more than one repeat. Or just play with the predelay of a verb you like, similar type of effect.
Old 8th June 2004
  #18
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jpaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by shipshape
Yep there are delays and also a old 910 harmoniser on the snare on that album , with the feedback turned up and pitched down to give some lenght to the snare on BIB. Pretty standard trick in them olden days
wow, kinda like a detuning effect on the snare! love the idea! That snare is about as fat as it gets, thanks for the insight Mike!
Old 8th June 2004
  #19
Quote:
Originally posted by jpaudio
wow, kinda like a detuning effect on the snare! love the idea! That snare is about as fat as it gets, thanks for the insight Mike!
I gather you must be young.
Old 8th June 2004
  #20
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jpaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
I gather you must be young.
young enough to have never seen that technique in action... and I appreciate learning about this stuff from guys like you, Mike, and everyone else!thumbsup
Old 8th June 2004
  #21
Quote:
Originally posted by jpaudio
young enough to have never seen that technique in action... and I appreciate learning about this stuff from guys like you, Mike, and everyone else!thumbsup
JP,

I am just kidding.

This is one of the things that made the Yamah SPX90 so freakin famous in the studio in the 80's(using the pitch shifter to tune the reverbs).

I still do this though on the new Eventide DSP7000 but on vocals more.

If you still wanna use reverbs on the drums(especially on the kick & snare) one trick i do is to put an expander on the reverb return.

That way you can tune in the return to size of the kick or snare in the kit.

It also gets out of the way much faster(and it sounds more natural too).

You can key if you like also.

I also prefer mono verbs on drums, panned to taste of course.
Old 8th June 2004
  #22
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GRiFF's Avatar
Some of you have talked about useing a reverb on the snare if it really needs it.
Does this mean you try and find a reverb that matches the sound of the original room...or that you try and find a larger than life reverb?


What about programmed loops? Where there are no ambient mics for the room sound/natural reverb?
Old 8th June 2004
  #23
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Ruudman's Avatar
 

Regarding drumloops,
I often make backdrop-fx,
i.e. trigging another snare sample with something
on 100% wet (B.detective,SoundReplacer, Recycle and so on).

The harmonizer on snares and toms are cool,
makes me want to visit Bowie in Berlin!

ruudman
Old 8th June 2004
  #24
Gear maniac
 

I still use reverb on drums due to the inadequacies of my live room. Also I don't want every drummer to sound the same. Everything is best close mic'ed for control of the bad ambience. Also keep the overheads quite close and mic chinas separately. Then I'll use the Rev One with wood room for a starting point. Maybe I'm missing something, or everyone else has great rooms for recording!
Old 8th June 2004
  #25
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studjo's Avatar
 

I have a little PCM 70 on my snares most of the times, but I really like to squash the room. I use the PCM70 more like an eq than for the reverb - if that makes sense to anyone heh

Jo
Old 8th June 2004
  #26
I think it also depends on the genre, Lately I've been mixing some jazz stuff,
reverb is totally ok in that bag.
Old 8th June 2004
  #27
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Musiclab
I think it also depends on the genre, Lately I've been mixing some jazz stuff,
reverb is totally ok in that bag.
Jazz is what I do almost exclusively and I almost always put a little reverb on the snare and toms. Probably works here and not there because the sonic landscape is not as dense as R&R, R&B. The snare and tom fills are a color, accent rather than a backbeat and therefore can sometimes benefit by occupying more space or placement with tails, etc.. Huh?
Old 8th June 2004
  #28
Gear Head
 

I've always used reverb on drums until I moved to a bigger studio with a bigger live room. With the bigger live room I discovered how inportant the room and room mics are.

Cheers.
Old 8th June 2004
  #29
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DirkB's Avatar
 

Same here, due to my smallish room I need some room / ambience programm to get a little space around the snare and toms.

Although, since I'm using some heavy squashed drumbus mult, I can get away with even less or no reverb. Actually, when I use reverb on drums it's always to get them a little further away from the front...

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 8th June 2004
  #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by shipshape
Yep there are delays and also a old 910 harmoniser on the snare on that album , with the feedback turned up and pitched down to give some lenght to the snare on BIB. Pretty standard trick in them olden days
Another reason why I love this forum. I just had a drummer tell me he wants his drums to sound like the BIB drums. When you say detune, do you mean by a few cents? Any other tips on acheiving this drum sound as far as recording/mixing techniques, choice of heads, tuning etc.
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