The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Short snappy snare
Old 6th June 2004
  #1
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Short snappy snare

OK, I've been struggling with this one for a while now. I'm primarily working on heavy rock (not death metal) and I'm looking to achieve that short, snappy snare that still cuts through the mix. Think of Def Tones, Chevelle, stuff of that nature. Problem is, I'm getting a decent snare sound but it has a huge spike on it. When I hit my drums with a limiter, the attack starts to fade and the decay lengthens(not what I want). If this can be achieved through a compressor, I just cant dial it in. Any tips or suggestions?
Old 6th June 2004
  #2
Re: Short snappy snare

Quote:
Originally posted by xyz
OK, I've been struggling with this one for a while now. I'm primarily working on heavy rock (not death metal) and I'm looking to achieve that short, snappy snare that still cuts through the mix. Think of Def Tones, Chevelle, stuff of that nature. Problem is, I'm getting a decent snare sound but it has a huge spike on it. When I hit my drums with a limiter, the attack starts to fade and the decay lengthens(not what I want). If this can be achieved through a compressor, I just cant dial it in. Any tips or suggestions?
Try the comp on a mult instead of the actual snare.

The comp i like on a mult for snap(sometimes it gets a little out of control so you got to reign it in) is the Urei 7110.

For a plug i actually like the bread and butter comp that comes with PTools. Its a nice spiffy comp for snares.
Old 6th June 2004
  #3
Captain
 
Mike Shipley's Avatar
 

what attack and release time are you setting on your compressor ?.
Old 6th June 2004
  #4
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Thats just it. I'm not sure exactly where to set the attack and release. In order to try and tame the spike, I set the attack as fast as possible (Rencomp) but that seems to kill the attack of the snare, and if I back off on the attack I still have the spike.
Old 6th June 2004
  #5
Gear nut
 
Lindell 2nd's Avatar
 

I use a Dynamite (not C4, Valley People) in parallel with the drums to get the snare snappy. Sometimes one on the snare as well. Other comps that I found doing the snappy thing is Studio Electronics C2, BUZZ SOC 1,1. Allan Smart C1. Slow attack, fast/medium release in general.

/Dell
Old 6th June 2004
  #6
Gear nut
 
Lindell 2nd's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by xyz
I set the attack as fast as possible (Rencomp) but that seems to kill the attack of the snare,
By the way, I have never had any good experience doing the snappy thing with plugins....
Old 6th June 2004
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Ruudman's Avatar
 

What about Transient Designer or similar products, also
mentioned in another thread here?

ruudman
Old 6th June 2004
  #8
Lives for gear
 
jazzius II's Avatar
 

For taming a spike, i'm not sure a tradition comp is gonna do it........a couple of exceptions might be the limiter on the STC-8, an Aphex Dominator or a TD........i'd try something that has a more instantanious effect on the spike....like tape, Apogee soft limit or pre-amp clipping........the closest to this sort of thing i've come across in plug-in land is this plugin.
Old 6th June 2004
  #9
Gear addict
 
ixnys's Avatar
 

But in some respects you WANT that spike. You want that transient to cut through the mix so you hear the snare. Go with the approach of a not so fast attack and then a quick release or a release in tempo. When you think of all the instruments that are gonna be in the mix, and the compression+limiting on the master, it will tame everything out in the end anways.
Old 6th June 2004
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

I liked to dupe the snare track and then pound it into oblivion with a hardware L2 limiter. the only caveat with this like any other compression/limiting action is that the snare has to sound RIGHT before you start to add all this fancy chicanery to the mix... cos if it sucks ass like has frequecy issues, phase etc etc the L2 aint gona be too kinda on that front and will just amplify them..

But if the snare is golden then there is little to get in the way of a smashing large snare with lotsa volume and NO dynamics matched alongside the original snare track... mix to taste and 'voila'.

I have often done this kind 'reprinting' of vocals, kiks, bass and snares though the L2, distressor, Neve 2264, LA2A and Tubetech CL1B with EQ as well so that its less of a hassle for recalls and th efact that im allways one to commit to a sound.... not a women!!! heh heh heh

Cheers
Wiggy

PS... im well keen to get me hands on a SPL TD4.. they sound like the bomb and a secret weapon for powerful drums
Old 6th June 2004
  #11
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by ixnys
But in some respects you WANT that spike. You want that transient to cut through the mix so you hear the snare. Go with the approach of a not so fast attack and then a quick release or a release in tempo. When you think of all the instruments that are gonna be in the mix, and the compression+limiting on the master, it will tame everything out in the end anways.
Yes and no. With digital recording, at least to me there seem to be very sharp transients, in <0.5ms of the attack. For a snappy compressor, I'm mostly looking in the 2-6ms attack time, which means that these 'initial' transients arent dealt with.

What did (some of the) trick for me on my latest project: mult the snare and on the multed signal I first put a waves expander with an attack of about .5ms, which shaves of the initial transient. Release is around 100-150ms, depending on the tempo of the song to get most of the hi-hat bleed out.
I then put a compressor on it with an attack time around 5-10ms and compress the sh*t out of it. Longer release gives you mostly snap, shorter you get a lot of body. Blend this in with the original snare and things start to sound better .

Good luck,
Dirk

P.S. I'm gonna get me a TD4 to have more transient and sustain tools, cause this is becoming an area I'm dealing more and more with to get where I want to go...
Old 6th June 2004
  #12
Lives for gear
 
imacgreg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by ixnys
But in some respects you WANT that spike. You want that transient to cut through the mix so you hear the snare. Go with the approach of a not so fast attack and then a quick release or a release in tempo. When you think of all the instruments that are gonna be in the mix, and the compression+limiting on the master, it will tame everything out in the end anways.
Problem is that if you are using that spike to make your snare loud and present in the mix, all the transients will get chopped during mastering and your master will sound like the snare has been turned down. It's all about the right balance of spike to length of the snare. I recently mixed an EP that had that problem, and one solution was to buss compress the whole mix with an SSL G buss compressor. 2nd to fastest attack, fast release, only shaving off a couple dB at the most. It was pretty audible but it was rock and roll so who cares??

Ian
Old 6th June 2004
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Besides a snare mult, you might take the snare out of the drum sub if it's going to a compressor. I often listen to how the drum sub sounds without SD, or BD, or OH to se if it makes an improvement.
Old 7th June 2004
  #14
Lives for gear
 
jpaudio's Avatar
 

Most important element in the equation: drummer, drum, and head/tuning. After that, well I wouldn't worry about the spike if I were you... I track modern rock snares similar to those you've described into a DAW all the time, and never have an issue with spikes. What mic are you using? A condenser might handle the transients differently than a 57 or similar dynamic. As for compression, i'm usually multing the snare, nuking one track with Distressor and the other gets either another Distressor at 3:1 or DBX 160X, nothing too fast. That pair of mults get blended to taste. Settings are usually around 6-7 attack and 4-5 release, which is great for grabbing the signal without killing the attack and adding a tight but short decay. Of course the exact settings depend on what compressor you're using, and the original track. Using an attack as fast as you've posted would kill the snare IMHO. Maybe take a look at your mic'ing and of course the source to begin with? best of luck.
Old 7th June 2004
  #15
Gear maniac
 
Hobbyist's Avatar
 

There are a few things I'd check... all having to do with the overheads.

First thought would be phase with the overheads. If there is a phase problem, then instinct might be making you try to get it louder and clearer and by the time you do that, you have a spike sitting on top of your mix. Then the circle starts.

If it's already been recorded then this won't help much, but maybe next time..

The music you mentioned depends a whole lot on the crack that comes from the overheads for the snare sound. It lets the snare spread out and live without having to get all of a sound from a single, close-mic'd (un-natural) source. Usually the overheads shouldn't need much in terms of EQ. You don't want to pull out too much of the 900-1k range. It can be really important to a well-blended drum sound.

Try bringing up the overheads only (into the mix), and try to get a balanced sound starting there. See how much of a snare sound you can get with only the overheads. By the time you get them that loud you'll probably need to compress them for when the crashes come. Use this to your advantage and get even more out of the snare.... Then bring in the snare track (flat). See if the snare starts losing fullness. Flip the phase and see which is better. The thicker one wins. Do that with each part of the kit.
Do all this with at least some elements of the mix in there. You'll be tempted to grab an eq and try to tweak out some stuff that you might really need later on.

The overheads have to be right to get the sound you're looking for. Don't make the mistake of making a bunch of holes with eq in them. It needs to be pretty smooth. And in the case of drums, don't try to all the sound of that close mike. It's in all the mics whether you like it or not.

Hope it helps!
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
AlexLakis / So much gear, so little time!
42
HomeBoy / Rap + Hip Hop engineering & production
1
reid / So much gear, so little time!
3
pan60 / Drums!
9
epicproblem / So much gear, so little time!
5

Forum Jump