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Mike, your Air and Breath in Lead Vocals
Old 14th June 2004
  #31
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

I like that also Let's also not forget, that as time passes by the harder it is to come up with original melodies or song arrangements. Coming up with a true original sound or style, today is waaaaaay harder than back in the day. Even though gear has opened up new territories to discover, musically that land was probably steped on before.. and that is a big limitant these days.

Another thing, if the sound of Analog was invented in the 90's and Digital in the 60's, we would be trying to sound as digitized as posible today.. because, what's done in the 60's is better!!! heh heh heh
Old 15th June 2004
  #32
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Chris, it will seem I'm trying to contradict everything you say.. but I'm not, with all due respect I will have to disagree with you again. Music does not translate to your statistic. Music like food is about taste and emotions. "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't have him drink it" i don't know how the saying went, but you got the idea.. I prefer Coca-Cola over any other pop soda, they all have huge advertizing.. but man, I like coke better. Advertizing, Videos, all the money you put into something will make a person famous, but that needs to be backed up by some good production. The people working behind Britney Spears, are true musical geniouses!!! Have you heard "toxic" ?? one of her latest singles.. has some seriously well made keyboard programming, I'm in no way saying she is a true artist (even though she has the star vibe) or whatever, that is not my point.. my point is , some high quality people are working behind these records. People like what they like, even if you say they are followers.. you don't get goose bumps from following. When you go see a movie and you cry at a certain part, you are not crying because millons was spent on production or advertizing, you are crying because the part conveyed you with some emotion (aka, was well made) . If your theory where to be true, there would be no movie flops, or records with huge budgets doing bad. Labels make mistakes on who or what they promote, but the people that sold millons, like shania, britney or whatever.. came up with some very very very good stuff, that millons like.
Old 15th June 2004
  #33
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mars's Avatar
I'm interested in a little more detail about the syllable-by-syllable eqing approach. Is it sepcific frequencies you're going for? More boosts than cuts? Is it planned or worked out in detail?

I ask because I sometimes do this but I use a more "vibe" approach: I hone in on one frequency and just ride it up and down a little bit to push the vocal out a bit. I generally switch frequencies at different points of a song depending on what I'm trying to achieve.
Old 15th June 2004
  #34
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Why don't you all have a go at answering the poor blokes question LOL

At least I had a go
Old 16th June 2004
  #35
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timjames's Avatar
 

actually in my experiance the better the artists performance the more i respond to the performance, not to mention understanding the importance of a follow up album.... i think mutt is a master of simplicity.... and shows us the ethic to achieve it.. quite honestly i dont think there process calls in to question shanias performance....on the contrary i think it is the production team responding passionatly to the performance that has inspired them to do it.....

tj
Old 16th June 2004
  #36
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by chessparov
"The people working behind Britney Spears, are true musical geniouses".

I rest my case.

Chris

I don't know what a musical genious is to you, but if you can fill stadiums with thousands of 15 year olds singing your tunes.. I guess, something was done right don't you think ? I'm not saying your supposed to like it, I personaly don't collect her albums.. but there is a diference between liking and respecting, and I respect the people behind her and other succesfull artists.. How many hit songs did you write ? Show me one and I'll shut up I promise. grudge
Old 16th June 2004
  #37
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

I have done a little search for you Chris. Go to www.allmusic.com and check out Max Martin, he wrote/produced some of Britneys hits. Please check out his resume, and then come back here and let me know if you think it's all luck and fooling around checking out britneys hot body while in the studio
Old 16th June 2004
  #38
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there was another thread about teamwork today and in the past.
IMHO the success of britney, justin, and many rappers is TOTAL teamwork. britney is the golden paper around the gift
at least she is a good entertainer!

timjames, yes, to me editing is make others hear what is inside, and what the experienced musician and engineer can feel already from the raw version. bring it out to ALL ears!
so there is no formula, but many tools.
Old 16th June 2004
  #39
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mars's Avatar
The reason I asked for more details is that after reading some of the threads on this forum I went back and listened to some of Mike's work with Shania. I had "Still The One" on a compilation CD with other stuff from the same period (Mariah, Kelly Price, etc). And on a fresh listen, the vocal sound (and overall production) is really outstanding compared to the other stuff.
Old 16th June 2004
  #40
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by NeoVXR
IMHO the success of britney, justin, and many rappers is TOTAL teamwork. britney is the golden paper around the gift
at least she is a good entertainer!

.

Exactly!


Sorry Mike, for going off topic.
Old 17th June 2004
  #41
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Wink

Deleted my O/T remarks and will bow out of this thread to only read the comments of the wiser
Slutz here-aka lurk and learn.

Thanks to all who are contributing here BTW.

Chris
Old 17th June 2004
  #42
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

Now I feel like Sh$!. You can state your opinion! there is nothing wrong with a discussion. It's all in good fun, anyways.. my apologies.
Old 17th June 2004
  #43
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chessparov's Avatar
 

Smile

No apology needed Jose.

Carry on...

Chris
Old 17th June 2004
  #44
Gear Maniac
 

Getting back to the subject what is interesting about Mr Lange's work is how far he is prepared to go on anything. I assisted him a while back and I think people have no idea the lengths he goes to get it the way he wants. But it doesn't make fun sessions at all, more like the salt-mine if you ask me. But when you think about it no one can argue with the sales and that's the bottom line. Automated Eq'ing is the one thing I enjoy in protools (with the sony EQ), but each syllable no way. I'd rather be mediocre and get on with the music. I do like the whisper ghost track. Vocalign turns it into a ghost and it only takes a little (level) to work. In a similar way I have seen producers replace esses themselves (singing in place of the singer) and other producers double track the entire bloody lead vocal themselves just to get a sound and even on the whole album.
I'm sorry but in my musical taste I don't buy that.
I like imperfection, the trembling, the sweat, the moment. A one take vocal is a rare event and when you witness it you get shivers down your spine. And you don't mess with it. It don't care about the 60's 80's 2000's debate. A great take will always be a great take. OK. 1 takes are rare and most artists will never get one. And it's facing extinction with the DAW generation so you've gotta find ways round.
My opinion is that whatever it takes to make the vocal sound great from a sound point of view is worthwhile but use production trickery with respect for the artist.

mumble ramble just my 1ct

P.S. could you please find someone other than britney when talking about genius, please
Old 17th June 2004
  #45
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Phil Buckle's Avatar
 

Seeing we are on the subject of vocals......
There is one technique I'd like to learn about and it has to do with the top end eq of the vocal track. There is a sound I'm hearing quite a lot lately.
I call it the razor eq.
It sounds like an extremely narrow bell of eq somewhere below the sibilant frequencies. If you turn the track right down you can still hear it. The whole vocal seems to "hang" from it. It never goes away. It's thin and real sharp but it doesn't hurt and it's not nasty. It's like the singers voice is always about to break.....like when you go "ahhhhhhhhh" as softly as you can and the voice box is just resonating. I've tried getting it with eq but can't quite nail it. The closest I came was multing the vocal and just adding a real narrow bell. That doesn't really work because of the comb filter effect.
Got me beat. Do you know the sound I mean?
Old 17th June 2004
  #46
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I have found something like this.
it looks like a needle around 10 khz (there may be also other symptoms), likely generated from some samples, synced/cross modulated with the voice frequencies.
seems a specialized plugin effect.

but after some time, and after many mainstream hypes use it ad nauseam, I really got enough. it is totally not natural. it is a nuisance.

I got a record of a singer I like, and even filtered it out! , and put my own enhancer on it. much better ..
(I'm using what's there, not synthesizing)

so...
who is using such an effect and what is it exactly?
Old 17th June 2004
  #47
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studjo's Avatar
 

I don't know if that's the trick but I make a mult of the vocal - highpass all under 4kHz or somewhere higher or lower and than compress the **** out of that mult.
That worked nice on some dull vocal tracks I had to mix.

Jo
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