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Gear ideas Analog Processors (HW)
Old 13th February 2003
  #1
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Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Lightbulb Gear ideas

Scince the original thread were accidently deleted, I'll decide to bring it up once again!

If I could have a box that just could this:

I would like a box dedicated to add distortion to line signales.
On the Richter scale it schould go from light added harmonics to Fatigue to total distrubtion/sound vaporization!heh

O.K. right now I realised that could be done by the reamp funktion and some pedals.
But I would love to have a dadicated unit for that!
Old 13th February 2003
  #2
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Messiah's Avatar
 

I would quite like a 2 channel, 3 band parametric EQ with a dynamic feature that "links" both channels via a threshold control. If the input signal is above the set threshold it goes to EQ 1, below and it goes to EQ 2. I would also want controls for the speed/attacked in which they switched, or morphed, once the threshold is breached. I'd also want a hold/release time control.

I think it could be quite extreme or quite subtle, either way I think it would be quite cool... you could also expand on it and add gain/drive controls or a compressor section to each channel.

I can visualize this quite clearly as a unit too....
Old 13th February 2003
  #3
Re: Gear ideas

Quote:
Originally posted by Nutmeg II.

I would like a box dedicated to add distortion to line signales.
On the Richter scale it schould go from light added harmonics to Fatigue to total distrubtion/sound vaporization!heh
I think there is a unit that already does that:
THERMIONIC
CULTURE VULTURE
DUAL VALVE DISTORTION
£890

Available from www.gearonline.co.uk

There's a review at:
www.george.shilling.com/articles.htm
Old 14th February 2003
  #4
Moderator
 
Tim Farrant's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
I would quite like a 2 channel, 3 band parametric EQ with a dynamic feature that "links" both channels via a threshold control. If the input signal is above the set threshold it goes to EQ 1, below and it goes to EQ 2. I would also want controls for the speed/attacked in which they switched, or morphed, once the threshold is breached. I'd also want a hold/release time control.

I think it could be quite extreme or quite subtle, either way I think it would be quite cool... you could also expand on it and add gain/drive controls or a compressor section to each channel.
Now this is a really interesting idea, it has caught my attention !! Two questions however;

1] Should the outputs of the 2 channels be mixed back together when used in "morph mode" ?

2] What the heck would you use it for ?

Cheers
Tim
Buzz Audio
Old 14th February 2003
  #5
Gear interested
 
snapper's Avatar
 

Yes, I can hear how cool that could sound. Great idea!
Old 14th February 2003
  #6
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Nutmeg II.'s Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Culture Vulture? Sounds quite cool! Thanks Chrisso!
A threshold would be cewl too! Only above/belove the threshold distortion take place!

Messiah your idea is great to! If you can't wait for it you might try it with a threshold triggerable autopanner. I think the Wavemechanics Soundblender plugs could do that, at least the can use the input to trigger the panning.
Hey right now it springs to my mind, that you could use a ducker to do that! One will rise the level and the other will turn it down when a signal hit the threshold.
Old 14th February 2003
  #7
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:

1] Should the outputs of the 2 channels be mixed back together when used in "morph mode" ?
Well, you'd like to have the option of unified or individual outputs, wouldn't you? With 1 output you can do further processing and treat it as one source (again), and, with 2 seperate outputs you could further emphasize the "difference" further down the chain (eg. different reverb sizes, etc.).

One important functionality factor I neglected to mention in my first post is that, as well as having the unit morph from 1 channel to the other, it would also be cool to have the 2nd channel kick in in addition to the 1st when the threshold is exceeded. i.e. below the threshold you have a 3 band EQ and when the threshold is breached it turns into a 6 band EQ.

It would also be cool to have a key input. I think I could get some really good results from a kick and bass drum in this way.

Oh, and I'd want valves in it!! (and valves that aren't visible from the front panel too!!)

Quote:

2] What the heck would you use it for ?
Well, when I originally contemplated this, I was thinking about the Fletcher-Munson curve and how it relates to peoples perception of loudness (as you dogrudge). The thought process took me to this unit as a way of either enhancing this or purposely contradicting the F-M curve for creative pursuits!

If we imagine that, generally, the louder we hear something the louder we hear/perceive the mid frequencies, then this unit would give us the ability to emphasize/de-emphasize that perceived loudness.

Lets say we have a snare track that goes along nicely (with EQ from channel 1) but every now and then the drummer drops in a slam for emphasis, the slam is above the threshold and we've got channel 2 waiting to give boost the mids and drop the top and bottom end a touch.
You could quite easily do the reverse too (dip mids, boost top/bottom), which should, theoretically, keep the perceived loudness closely knitted between the levels either side of the threshold.

You could use it this way for most percussive sources....

I'd like to be able to turn sources "lo-fi" just on the decays. I'd like to be able to do the same on reverb tails, or even expand them from lo-fi to hi-fi.

I'm sure there's lot's of extreme ways in which I'd use it too, and these would come from "hands on" experimentation. I've thought of 4 or 5 different uses since I started typing.....
Old 14th February 2003
  #8
Could you train a monkey to do it?
Old 14th February 2003
  #9
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
I would quite like a 2 channel, 3 band parametric EQ with a dynamic feature that "links" both channels via a threshold control. If the input signal is above the set threshold it goes to EQ 1, below and it goes to EQ 2. I would also want controls for the speed/attacked in which they switched, or morphed, once the threshold is breached. I'd also want a hold/release time control.

I think it could be quite extreme or quite subtle, either way I think it would be quite cool... you could also expand on it and add gain/drive controls or a compressor section to each channel.

I can visualize this quite clearly as a unit too....

Isn't this the BSS DPR901II Dynamic Eq?
Old 14th February 2003
  #10
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Old 14th February 2003
  #11
Seems like everybody's wish has already been granted.heh
Old 14th February 2003
  #12
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Isn't this the BSS DPR901II Dynamic Eq?
No, it isn't. The 901II is 4 bands of frequency dependant compression/expansion and it's quite different to what I'm talking about.

The CLM Expounder is in a similar ballpark to the BSS, and again not what I mean. I can't remember ever using the BSS but the CLM I've used quite a bit and it's a great piece of kit.
Old 15th February 2003
  #13
Smart Research
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
No, it isn't. The 901II is 4 bands of frequency dependant compression/expansion and it's quite different to what I'm talking about.
Yes. (as I understand it its more like the boost/cut pot of the eq is the dynamic bit....so it's a fairly subtle effect)

Mick Glossop and Bob Clearmountain aparrently like them, Mick mostly for repair work: he said often to counter stuff moving on/off mic axis (or proximity effect ?).

I suggested a similar idea in a conversation with Dave Haydon at BSS about 8 months before it came out. Together with an active stage splitter unit, as I'd just hand made 48 channels for Tears for Fears to tour with. I'm being boring...sorry....but both ideas together were quite a coincidence....are you out there Dave ?

Your dynamic split idea though is really interesting. I'd guess it's the 'tail out' that would determine the success: would hold and release controls give enough flexibility ?

Al.
Old 15th February 2003
  #14
Gear maniac
 

I think the M3000 and the Eventide Orville both have features that flip the signal from one channel to another at predetermined levels. I think they also have eq's ...I may be wrong.


I do use this effect (for example, reverb at low levels, chorus at higher levels) on these boxes though....


]
Old 16th February 2003
  #15
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

CLM dynamics Expounder is a FINE piece of kit.. and can do a LOT of cool things... the filters are way cool and can really allow u to shape and ****things up and create cool techno type effects whilst still performing 'surgery' on troublesome tracks.. its a great problem solver and additive EW in all reagards.. big thumbs up!

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 16th February 2003
  #16
Gear interested
 

boxes with recall

How about making some of these fx boxes with storable settings - i.e. digitally controlled analog using those little memory cards that you see everywhere to save your settings. Stick the card in, choose your file name or memory position and yell "RECALL". I know Al has done some nice things with a microcontroller in his 01/7 preamp, and it seems to me that sort of stuff gets around a lot of technical issues like mechanical switch contacts, noisy pots, long wiring paths for audio etc. What do you think, is it making a simple task overly complicated?
Old 16th February 2003
  #17
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Re: boxes with recall

In a word, yes.....

Wouldn't you rather save your money for something else and right the settings down?

I think it would seriously increase production costs where analogue recall settings are involved.

Also (Al may know more of the specifics), I have a Metric Halo Mobile I/O firewire interface that has digitally controlled gain for the mic pre's/line trims and this has caused the one big flaw in the unit. Basically, due to the combination of a digitally controlled gain pot and a mic preamp, the noise is unnacceptably high at higher gain settings.

However.
I really like the way the SansAmp PSA1 controls recalling/storing/settings. I think it's great the way in which the parameter controls are there when you need them, and easy to restore if needs be. I'd like to see some more units with this kind of approach to storage/recall. It would be particularly useful on all of these "channelstrip" units that are flooding the market, but I'd love to see it on a mid level EQ unit too.
Old 17th February 2003
  #18
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
My idea that got trashed on the first thread was a guitar splitter.

-One input
-Two outputs with mute and ground lift on each
-Variable gain boost on each output, maybe 6-8dB to kick amps harder
-Overall mute with a dedicated tuner out
-Optional footswitch (mute, A, B or both) for gigs and stuff???

I think at $200-300 you'd sell a ****load of 'em to studios and guys that gig with two amps.
Old 17th February 2003
  #19
Smart Research
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah

I have a Metric Halo Mobile I/O firewire interface that has digitally controlled gain for the mic pre's/line trims and this has caused the one big flaw in the unit.

I really like the way the SansAmp PSA1 controls recalling/storing/settings.
Cost for recall neednt be too much of an issue on initially 'upmarket' outboard, but digital control of analogue is a nest of vipers in audio terms, untill you've discovered the pitfalls....cracking eq and mic amps are about the worst challenges, then theres multiplying your design choices by 100 if your making a console, and without adding cumulative artefacts or make-before-break switching feed back..

Operation is then most important. I've not released anything yet, so I'm just taking notes.

some great ideas on this thread !

Al.
Old 17th February 2003
  #20
What about maintenance also.....
Getting repairs done on digital is much more involved than standard analogue units.
Old 17th February 2003
  #21
I think some sort of assistant engineer / intern lie detector that studios could use would be good.

Q - Are you in a band ?

A- No BIZZZZZZZZT! - (Lie detected)

A- well its only part time BIZZZZZZT! - (Lie detected)

A- We only rehearse in free time BIZZZZZZT! - (Lie detected)

A - We dont really do gigs any more BIZZZZZZT! - (Lie detected)

heh
Old 18th February 2003
  #22
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I think some sort of assistant engineer / intern lie detector that studios could use would be good.
Really reminded me of this;
Lie Detector Sketch...

Thought I'd share...
Old 18th February 2003
  #23
urumita
 
7rojo7's Avatar
 

Hey!! why did the first thread get trashed?
It wasn't my fault I swear.
I just want a universal (impedance and level matching) input mixing (32+ x12)(or even in packages of some convenient number) buss (hp and lp filters wouldn't be frowned upon) with mastering like A/B/C metering and listening capabilities (saves time choosing signal paths) and a stand alone monitoring section built for the next 10 years.
These could be combined to make a high quality audio mixing and listening environment for "recordists".
Something reliable to put in front of and behind the mysterious vapor makers. It would be possible for one to insert even a channel of transient designer somewhere along the signal chain and compare it to a Drawmer M500 or something to that effect.
Analog would be just dandy, with detented, physically recallable settings. For now I can be satisfied with EMMLabs converters for at least a few more years, I'm chasing some other stuff that will last as long, and be very useful in the meantime. I'm not finding anything ready. The closest thing is the API legacy 16 buss without all the preamps. 40 frame with 16 pres., all the other channels would be mix and fader only(?) Flight? I move alot.
THOUGHTS?
Old 18th February 2003
  #24
Smart Research
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I think some sort of assistant engineer / intern lie detector that studios could use would be good.
hmmm....Jules, I think I sense a story youre not telling us.....

I remember hearing that one of the original tape ops at the Manor went by the name of Mike Oldfied.......who stayed up nights being creative unknown to the management, who found out after a while and then hit the roof. On the verge of sacking him, Branson instead released the stuff....etc etc etc....

You could end up with your very own empire ! My mum would think you were great!

Al.
Old 24th February 2003
  #25
Gear nut
 
jagarinec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah

Lets say we have a snare track that goes along nicely (with EQ from channel 1) but every now and then the drummer drops in a slam for emphasis, the slam is above the threshold and we've got channel 2 waiting to give boost the mids and drop the top and bottom end a touch.
You could quite easily do the reverse too (dip mids, boost top/bottom), which should, theoretically, keep the perceived loudness closely knitted between the levels either side of the threshold.

You could use it this way for most percussive sources....

I'd like to be able to turn sources "lo-fi" just on the decays. I'd like to be able to do the same on reverb tails, or even expand them from lo-fi to hi-fi.
it would be quite good to boost highs and bass for vocals in silent parts of a track. great idea

the dolby CAT22 card can do this exept the bass. only the highs.

isn´t there any "dynamic splitter" which can distribute one signal to two outputs depenting on input level?
Old 25th February 2003
  #26
Gear nut
 
jagarinec's Avatar
 

i´d like to have an EQ with to inputs where the first input is EQed normaly and the second inversely.

it would be easy and fast to separate the frequency band of two spectral similar signals like kick and bass.
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