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DSD and the future busiess of small to medium studios
Old 3rd January 2003
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by mattimattmatt:
Curve Dominant writes: "DSD is 1-bit PCM. DVD-A is 24-bit PCM."

I don't think it's quite that simple.
Matt,

OK.

Uhh...do you care to elaborate??

I'm ALL ears.

I'm just DYING to see an audio engineer tell lil' ol' me, a stoopid composer, how 1-bit conversion is "Super Audio."

Oh, and the "Use yor ears" shtick won't cut it here. I used my ears. SACD sounds muffled to my ears compared to Redbook. Y'all gotta do better than that.

C'mon, boys, impress me.
Old 3rd January 2003
  #32
Registered User
 
malice's Avatar
 

Hello Guys

Hello guys,

mmh, it is getting hot here.
I'm not a digital tech, but it seems that we should all try to understand what DSD is before our clients force us to use a system that is not suiting our needs.
I have been thru that several times in my career, and I'm getting fed up with this.It first started with the Mitsubichi X700 prodigy, then Pro tools (I know, I know, I come from PSW).

If I understand well the situation, 1bit dithering is not achievable, so that means that any treatment (EQ, Comp,etc) is not possible.
Yes matt, you don't need dithering, as long as you record a final master, in the same resolution as you reproduce it, but that's all you will do.
Even editing seems complicated with that format.
So a multitrack that sounds rock solid, that you can't edit easily, with no pluggins whatsoever, and that you can't copy too many times...
...we allready got that :We call it 2' Studer...

malice
Old 3rd January 2003
  #33
Lives for gear
 
hollywood_steve's Avatar
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by alphajerk
if it has 48 channel out you could easily mix it... just mix on an analog board.

who needs to edit...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OH MY GOD, YOU CAN DO THAT????

( remember when players could play?)
**********************************************

I guess that's the point........DSD isn't for folks who have become addicted to moving snare beats and autotuning every syllable. Its a replacement for analog recorders that are simply too expensive to manufacture profitably any more. Those of us who record complete musical performances will never miss the "lack" of editing features. We are being offered the first audibly acceptable replacement for analog recorders and at a price of less than half of the last 2" machines.

Perspective is everything. The folks who can't finish a recording without feeling compelled to line up every note to the click track already have their utlimate toy (PT). DSD is for the rest of us.

steve
lex125@pacbell.net
steve
lex125@pacbell.net
Old 3rd January 2003
  #34
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
Re: Hello Guys

Quote:
Originally posted by malice

So a multitrack that sounds rock solid, that you can't edit easily, with no pluggins whatsoever, and that you can't copy too many times...
...we allready got that :We call it 2' Studer...

malice
LOLheh A 2' (foot) Studer. Now that's tape! From a manufacturers perspective I can tell you that Sony is covering it's tail. You sell what you have and Sony has CD and SACD exclusively. They have been paid royalties on every CD sold for the past twenty years and believe me that is not an insignifigant amount. So they have "invented" a new technology that they can use to squeeze another twenty years out of. It's not inherently bad technology, but honestly all of the information out there is spun pretty good, especially the"It sounds like analog" thing. What kind of analog? Tape? Vinyl? Virgin Vinyl?!? Tube? Wax Cylinder? Wire Recorder? Those who are championing this format are not doing so in an unbiased way. I have spoken at lenght with our engineers and they are all saying the DSD/SACD is fine as a delivery format, but it's not a great recording format. We as a company don't have anything to gain either way. We can adapt our converters to work with either format. I say just pick a system, learn (gasp!) how to use it, and stop getting into these silly discusions over DSD vs PCM, Pro Tools VS Nuendo Vs Radar Vs Logic. They're all good! Remember, there's an ass for every seathehheh
Old 3rd January 2003
  #35
Registered User
 
malice's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Hello Guys

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
LOLheh A 2' (foot) Studer. Now that's tape!
ooops, I made an arse of myself again...You know, we frenchies make mistakes about foot, inches, yard, miles ...

heh heh heh

malice

With that said, I agree with you David ...
Old 3rd January 2003
  #36
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
Re: Re: Re: Hello Guys

Quote:
Originally posted by malice
ooops, I made an arse of myself again...You know, we frenchies make mistakes about foot, inches, yard, miles ...

heh heh heh

malice

With that said, I agree with you David ...
Arse? You may be the first Scottish Frenchman I've ever met heh
Damn English measurements!
Old 3rd January 2003
  #37
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Hello Guys

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
...From a manufacturers perspective I can tell you that Sony is covering it's tail. You sell what you have and Sony has CD and SACD exclusively. They have been paid royalties on every CD sold for the past twenty years and believe me that is not an insignifigant amount. So they have "invented" a new technology that they can use to squeeze another twenty years out of. ...
This isn't exactly true. CD, DVD and SACD all employ a number of patents and trademarks owned by various people. Phillips administers CD and SACD but the royalties go to most of the same people DVD royalties go to. In fact DSD technology is closer to being "public domain" than most conventional PCM technology because it doesn't require propriatary reconstruction filters. I'd be willing to bet that Sony earns virtually the same amount from every DVD sold as they do from every SACD.

The most important thing for people to understand is that the labels who have committed to moving to hybrid SACD releases within the next 3-5 years account for, depending on who you talk to, between 55% and 70% of the entire prerecorded music market including indi releases. This is closer to being a "done deal" than ANY new format has been since the introduction of the stereo LP. Does it mean we all need to move to DSD workstations? No more than we needed to move away from analog tape when the CD first came out.
Old 3rd January 2003
  #38
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant
.

A puerile personal insult, followed by a distinct lack of on-topic follow-up information. A bit bored and uninformed, are we?
Geetar,

.
Eric,

You speak about DSD and SACD as if you had spent any time with it. I have been running a Sony 9000ES SACD player through a Meridian pre/Bryston power amp into ATC 20SLs and through ATC 100s (internal triamp) for some months now. Where are your experiential credentials in this ? Oh, sorry, I forgot, one or two sessions away from home on gear and in rooms you were less than intimately familiar with.

But of course, that's OK, 'cos you've read Lip****z and Vanderkooy. You _know_ SACD must be bad.

This may be my first post on Gearsluts, but I took you to task on another forum for your essentially leaden critique of the format. I am bored, yes.

Of you and your endless twittering.
Old 3rd January 2003
  #39
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
Thanks for clarifying, Bob. Sony does stand to make more money off of SACD's then DVD-A though, right?
Old 4th January 2003
  #40
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus
...Sony does stand to make more money off of SACD's then DVD-A though, right?
As I said, I seriously doubt that this is the case. In addition my understanding is that the royalties on SACD are lower than those for DVD-A.
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