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Erik's Attack of the Clones
Old 20th December 2002
  #31
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e-cue's Avatar
 

As I recall, McDsp shipped CompressorBank (which also included dbx 165, Neve 33609C/L emulations) before Bomb Factory's offical release, so to say that they are ripping off BF is BS.

The whole "McDSP makes no representation or warranty that CompressorBank is identical to or duplicates these compressors." and "McDSP showed up with a "Fairchild preset" for the same McDSP technology (crafted from a rental unit no less). " is just making moutains out of mole hills. The 1st statement I'd chalk up to trademark infridgement, and the second is just a mute point since I rent gear all the time.

I think everyone in the industry when ask "What do you want out of a plug in compressor?" 5 years ago would've said "I want it to sound like an LA-2A, A 660, An 1176, etc", so the idea of compressor emulation is nothing new. That being said, I'd love to see BF come up with something new that doesn't emulate gear that's already out there.
Old 20th December 2002
  #32
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I'm into art in whatever form it manifests itself. The looks of an item should reflect the workings of an item. The big picture... Some people may argue that the retro faceplates are too contrived but to be honest, if I'm using something that is supposed to act like a Fairchild I want to be able to reach for it in the virtual world the same way I would in the actual world.

I believe that this is why Radar is much easier to swallow for long time 2" users. It works like tape, so in a way, it acts like it too. I don't want to get into the specifics of Radars sound on this one but I feel the interface is doing it great justice on top of all of the other positives that go along with the medium.

I guarantee that if an La2a was designed with 5 knobs it wouldn't be the same. Extra control isn't always a good thing in a world run by deviants such as ourselves. Sure it can be handy but...
Old 20th December 2002
  #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
I guarantee that if an La2a was designed with 5 knobs it wouldn't be the same.
a real hardware version or a plugin?... i dont give a **** about an LA2A plugin... just give me a cool sounding compressor with knobs to control how it functions. i dont get the "emulations" of hardware gear... i would rather have greater control than less control. there are "things" that could be of so much use using plugins that most designers ignore... where is my hysteresis? i think a custom compression curve would be much more helpful than an "emulation" plug... envelope control... or dynamic settings [on compressors.. or EQ like the C4/C5 type of things, just better sounding] or dynamic dependant variable attacks/releases. or where are the transient designer plugins? i dont care if it emulates the SOUND of the SPL units... i just want its APPLICATION.

the one BIG problem with EMULATIONS of hardware units is really WHICH ONE are you emulating... since ALL analog hardware units WILL VARY from unit to unit... plugins DONT VARY, the plugin is going to sound the same on my machine as it will on your machine.

thats my biggest beef with BF... they have centered their whole model around modelling... just give me a great freaking COMPRESSOR/EQ/FLANGER/PHASER/DELAY/PITCHSHIFTER/ETC... give me control over all the parameters and be done with it. im not looking to get hardware units inside my MAC.
Old 20th December 2002
  #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
a real hardware version or a plugin?... i dont give a **** about an LA2A plugin... just give me a cool sounding compressor with knobs to control how it functions. i dont get the "emulations" of hardware gear...

the one BIG problem with EMULATIONS of hardware units is really WHICH ONE are you emulating... since ALL analog hardware units WILL VARY from unit to unit... plugins DONT VARY, the plugin is going to sound the same on my machine as it will on your machine.
#1 The old units have a way that they operate. People are used to this. If you are gonna do it they should interface the same... The beauty of the La2a is the plug and play straightforward interface. More control is yielded by how you use the ones given... How you hit the knee is key.

#2 yeah which one. Hopefully a good one. So when are we gonna see a plug in that emulates broken pieces worth using? That sounds fun. The leaky cap preset? I want an MXR mini limiter plug. Noise and all. Auto flange and phasors too.

See you soon.
Old 20th December 2002
  #35
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
[B yeah which one. Hopefully a good one. [/B]
define good... subjective thing. lets just say they are both in "proper" working order. i was talking with stevie D about this just a few minutes ago. it seems the BF analog delay was a PROTOTYPE analog delay... and the real ones went through THREE rev's.... AND on top of it, none of the 1000 they made sounded the same even within the same rev. so which one? obviously its the prototype they used. my analog delay sounds a LOT better than the BF version of the plugin i put it up against. it wasnt even close.... not to mention they put a HP filter in place of the loop knob on the original, so that technically addresses your point #1... its NOT the same [nor can you access the CV/output jacks on the back either]
Old 20th December 2002
  #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
define good... subjective thing. lets just say they are both in "proper" working order. i was talking with stevie D about this just a few minutes ago. it seems the BF analog delay was a PROTOTYPE analog delay... and the real ones went through THREE rev's.... AND on top of it, none of the 1000 they made sounded the same even within the same rev. so which one? obviously its the prototype they used. my analog delay sounds a LOT better than the BF version of the plugin i put it up against. it wasnt even close.... not to mention they put a HP filter in place of the loop knob on the original, so that technically addresses your point #1... its NOT the same [nor can you access the CV/output jacks on the back either]
I agree. my point was less pointed... I'm trying to stick to rash generalizations due to my hate fatigue.

Damn my ****ing shift key is ****ing up.grudge :eek:
Old 21st December 2002
  #37
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
......hate fatigue.
Another Great Band Name!
Old 21st December 2002
  #38
Gear Head
 

I've never met Erik, and have no preference myself regarding BF vs anything else, but the issues here inspired me to a quasi-philosophical ramble:

Seven years ago, myself and eight colleagues debuted a cover band on the small but then-vivacious Santa Barbara music scene. Our style was Motown through 70's funk, and in a gaggle of bands that all played "Mustang Sally" and "Brick House," we were the first in recent memory to take on more difficult tunes such as a lot of Tower of Power, Earth Wind & Fire, etc. It was a lot of fun, and made us really popular.

Within a year other bands were performing many of the same tunes we became known for doing. On the one hand, I do think there was a causal relationship: One monrh, I'm regularly getting stopped in the street to be told "Man, your cover of 'What is Hip?' smokes. I've never heard anybody around here do that." The next month, three other bands are doing it. (One with a keyboard in place of a horn section... ugh.)

On the other hand, I can't see that much righteous indignation is justified by this. Certainly, it's OK to feel a little vexed, but to have gone public with a beef that other bands were copying "our" act... ? It's not our act, it was the act of all the people who wrote and performed those tunes and made them famous. It even got to the point where one especially shameless bunch was emulating our set list order, arrangements, stage footprint, etc, and telling clients that they're just like us but more affordable. (Sound familliar from the hardware side of M.I., anyone?) We cried foul amongst ourselves, but our overall response was to pick up new material, get better still at our existing stuff, improve our lighting, choreography, basically trying to stay a step ahead of the competition. This was really the only thing to do, because by year three, there was a large crop of listeners who had no idea who was first, and the proportion of them in our fan base would only increase. To attempt to give them some kind of history lesson would have been alienating: Why should they have to care about that crap, when all they want is to have a good time for their money?

Bottom line: Erik's sentiment is valid. Being the first to hip people to something great by (1) emulating a classic product very well and (2) making it accessible and affordable has both moral and market worth. (To what extent the idea to copy something can itself be an original idea I'll leave for intellectual property lawyers.) Get successful at it, though, and people are gonna pull a Me-Too. But belligerence about the issue always makes you look like the bad guy, even if you're right. That's unfair, but it's part of the burden of being first.
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