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Let's Talk Low End
Old 13th December 2002
  #31
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Yeah, but I'd still probably **** it up.
Have a little faith in your abilities bro... given a similar source, I'm sure you'd get the result you seek... given a dissimilar source, you will always get dissimilar results... in other words... if you're not recording the same player, you're going to get a different sound no matter what.

You've been doing this long enough to know that...
Old 13th December 2002
  #32
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by loudist
An important aspect has not been discussed...
Tuning of the kick is very important to the musicality of the song and pleasing sonics.
Amen. Thank god for my F-16 in the mixing stage. A cheat around is to key gated a tone generator at the key of the song and add it into the track. One of the techniques I use time to time is tight gating a mult of original kick and focus on the "1K-7K" just for the beater (or the attack that translates great on Auratones and NS-10s, and prison radio, and hold music when you call Musician's Friend, etc...) then add in a tone generator at the key of the song to taste. This way your kick translates well from top to low end. A frequency to hertz chart comes in handy for this stuff.
Attached Thumbnails
Let's Talk Low End-freq-note-ranges.gif  
Old 13th December 2002
  #33
Just on a tangent;
what is the 440 as in A - 440?
I assumed it was hertz, but the closest thing on your chart is 476.
Old 13th December 2002
  #34
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loudist's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
...or the attack that translates great on Auratones and NS-10s, and prison radio,
LMBO!
Old 13th December 2002
  #35
Gear addict
 

440

chrisso, i think the A in the picture says 426. which makes some sense. A=440 Hz is a pretty recent development. in older times, they tuned to a much lower A. "early music" groups still often tune much lower than modern orchestras.
Old 13th December 2002
  #36
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
Just on a tangent;
what is the 440 as in A - 440?
I assumed it was hertz, but the closest thing on your chart is 476.
Damn, you're right. This is a chart someone pointed me to over a tape op sometime ago, and I really only used it to ponder instrument ranges. Good call.
The Multiplier should be 1.0594631, that is
Oct 1 A should be 27.5
Oct 2 A should be 55.0
Oct 3 A should be 110.0
Oct 4 A should be 220
Oct 5 A should be 440

Oct 1A# should be 29.135
Oct 1B should be 30.868

so on and so forth.
Old 13th December 2002
  #37
Re: 440

Quote:
Originally posted by jajjguy
A=440 Hz is a pretty recent development. in older times, they tuned to a much lower A. "early music" groups still often tune much lower than modern orchestras.
So you could use that '27 chart if you wanted to add low end to an 'early music' kick?



tut Don't answer that.
Old 13th December 2002
  #38
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

Yeah, for that "Vintage" sound right?
Old 13th December 2002
  #39
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
A cheat around is to key gated a tone generator at the key of the song and add it into the track.
****... is the 80's again already... damn.
Old 13th December 2002
  #40
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 

Heh,

Say, isn't Concert 'A' now 443 Hz?
Old 14th December 2002
  #41
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Re: 440

Quote:
Originally posted by jajjguy
chrisso, i think the A in the picture says 426. which makes some sense. A=440 Hz is a pretty recent development. in older times, they tuned to a much lower A. "early music" groups still often tune much lower than modern orchestras.
then i could probably sing in the "old days"... now they are just tuning too high, maybe im too high.
Old 14th December 2002
  #42
Gear interested
 

I recently started doing the rolloff below 140 on bass- then narrow boost somewhere in there . The kick then owns most of the bottom. Intersting how the bass seems much beter off despite little energy below 140. And the kick is well separated/defined. ( I just stumbled on this on my own)

Also - back to Fletchers original point.
Phase relationships are most important on bass- cause the wavelength is long and desructinve or constructinve interference is much more of an issue. The higher freqs - are likely to be off several wavelengths - thus are not going to interfere as the bass does - (when all the waves bouncing around being within one cycle).

That why I alway check the phase +/-of all my bass elements.
The 360 degree variable phase device Fletcher described above is new to me. But given the phase sensitivity behavior I've described above Im sure it can make a big difference - above and beyond doing the +/- phase check.

Just try flicking your stereo speakers out of phase when playing a mono kick and see what happens. With high freq material there's almost no effect.
Old 16th December 2002
  #43
Gear Head
 

kicks

Speaking of the HPF, boost the bottom thing on kick drum..I often do that type of thing with 1073's, especially for r n' b. Boost 60 hz a bunch (or a bit), and then trim it up with the hipass @ 50 or 80 hz. It seems strange, but the resulting curve is big on the bottom without loading up from 125 on up, which can get in the way of the bass and other stuff. This works when you want a bi-i-i-g and warm kik.
Old 18th December 2002
  #44
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Alvin
Sometimes I will use this technique as a last resort if the bass and kick are not working together. BTW, I am not totally crazy, I stole it from an interview with CLA. It works.

Take a 6 dB/ octave HPF and roll off all of the low end on the bass from 200 hz on down. Now set a narrow Q on one band of the eq and boost it about 8dB. Slowly sweep it down while listening to it in context of the mix until you find where it sounds good with the kick and keeps the groove happening. Once you find the magic frequency you can adjust the amount of gain and the Q so that it gels perfectly with the tune.
They seem to do a better job of taming the low end. Also, an aural exiter on an aux can sometimes do wonders to clean up a messy bass tone.
Me Lord,
In order to keep the bass's low freq boost contained frequency- wise you mention High Q. Lookin at the curves its suggests that Q needs to be around 4-6 in order not to step all over the low end of the kick.
Is this the approximate Q you end up using??
Old 19th December 2002
  #45
Gear nut
 

Kendrix, I start with the narrowest Q the board has to offer and sweep down just to find the sweetest frequency. Then I broaden it until it sounds right. It will be different every time you use the technique. You have to judge the amount of boost and the width of the Q with your ear while listening in the mix. You most certainly won't want to leave the Q set on its most narrow setting. Make it as wide as you can without destroying the low end.
Old 23rd December 2002
  #46
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
another trick is to use compressor with sidechain getting "data" from kick to attentuate the bass. When set correctly, you can do less or no EQ on the kick/bass and get more fat sound.

Try to tune the kick at first...
Old 27th December 2002
  #47
Gear maniac
 
esteso's Avatar
 

concert A is 443 in Britain, 440 in USA
Old 27th December 2002
  #48
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 

I wonder what concert A is in Asia. Maybe they should list it in the "World Book".
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