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So whaddaya like, or hate about "PSW's recpit"
Old 3rd December 2002
  #1
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
So whaddaya like, or hate about "PSW's recpit"

I can't really ask the question there, so I figured I'd ask it here. As for it being "slow" that's in heavy development to be corrected... I'm talking more about content, moderators, etc.

Are the Mixerman diaries distracting to the larger event?

Have I let my forum get into too much 'personality mud slinging'?

What about Brad Blackwood's or J. Hall's forum?

Why don't more people take advantage of Nika and John Klett's knowledge?

I'm kinda the forum 'pit boss' over there... so you tell me, what can I do to make it a better resource for the community?
Old 3rd December 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Close it and hang around here full time...
Old 3rd December 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Damn, Liquidstrat beat me in posting something of some value!

Anyway, I should have added that I think no one can deny that the MM Chronicles have been a major turning point for the Rec' Pit. (IMO for the worst but let's see what others do think...)

I won't argue that MM's writing style can be pretty entertaining when he's into it, however in the wake of the hordes of wannabees it attracted, the high signal-to-noise ratio and general irrelevance of the posting action there (for me and most somewhat experienced and professionally involved posters I'll guess) made the place pretty much devoid of interest for quite some time now. And yes your forum has turned into a quite the un-classy mud-wrestling ring of late. This is too bad (at least for me) because I used to enjoy the whole place and picked plenty of useful info there in the past. (Not the least from you, thanks BTW.) I agree that John Klett's forum has been a nice and resourceful place, unfortunately he did not seem to be there very often the last few times I ventured there...

Anyway, those are just some quick thoughts... More ranting than offering solutions unfortunately.

I must add that this here site is now the only audio BB I frequent with any kind of regularity and a very good exemple of what "I" am looking for in such a place. Thanks Jules and everyone for that!
Old 3rd December 2002
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Howdy Fletcher and all.

I have always loved you're no nonsense advice/opinions from when I discovered GMs forum a couple of years ago and because of this I followed you to RO and then to PSW. I have always been a heavy reader but not a big poster as I am a man of few words and if I can't help the topic, I don't bother.

Much as everyone else I loved the Mixerman diaries but I got to say that since they went ballistic I think the site has been going downhill. Too much personal abuse and someone tearing someone a new arsehole because they asked a question that had been asked before or worse, they have a different opinion.

I like J.Hall, Harvey and your forums but as 'groundcontrol' said if you were to come here I probably wouldn't go there anymore.

PS Have always appreciated Jules posts as well and I think this is by far the best site of all of them.
High content of help and discussion. Low content of bull****.

Thanks Jules.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #5
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

And what REALLY sucks are the guys that post as if they're characters in Mixerman's story. UGH.

As I mentioned in the "pro audio websites" thread, I find prosoundweb's lack of support for AOL's browser to be very annoying.

I like the diversity of moderators; that's a big plus. Unfortunately, even for that diversity, it seems like the actual content of the forums can be pretty similar. I really think that the "best ___ for under $___," get's pretty old, but there's not a lot you can do about that.

My favorite forum is probably JHall's. There's a refreshing lack of cynicism.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #6
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

Someone (whom I respect) even e-mailed me thinking I was MM's
assistant "Rod" in New York. Although I do KNOW the identity of Lance,
and have a pretty good idea who MM is. Will honor the code of secrecy
though...

Chris
Old 3rd December 2002
  #7
Gear addict
 

Your forum is the one there (well, of the one's with any critical mass) that has the best signal to noise ratio, IMO. There are some fixtures around those boards who I've never seen post anything audio realated and just spend their time fluffing their egos by slagging eachother. I know off topic stuff is often fun, interesting, and informative, but it's generally a waste of time unless I care about the topic in most cases. When the signal to noise is better, I'll check out about any thread to try to pick stuff up.

Bear
Old 3rd December 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 

Re: So whaddaya like, or hate about "PSW's recpit"

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
I can't really ask the question there, so I figured I'd ask it here. As for it being "slow" that's in heavy development to be corrected... I'm talking more about content, moderators, etc.

Are the Mixerman diaries distracting to the larger event?

** Yea . . I could give a ****. Then Mixerman and his "SLIGHTLY over blown ego" doesn't do much for me. At one point, I would check his forum out to see if there was anything there worth reading and learning or possibly posting, but for the past month or two . . . . . it's just nonsense.

Have I let my forum get into too much 'personality mud slinging'?

** I don't know . . you have a lot to offer. I am just amazed at the "suck ups" you have. I mean, there are people that would eat Fletcher piss flavored crackers if you gave them to them. I think "at times' it goes to your head. Keeping up the 'Fletcher act' gets old at times. Seems like people expect you to do "IT" (if you know what I mean) . . . like a trained monkey! lol.

Then there are times when I am amazed at some of your knowledge and the willingness to type out long posts to help others. I KNOW it has to be hard to keep a forum current and every post can't be interesting.

What about Brad Blackwood's or J. Hall's forum?

** Brad has some good stuff at times. At least he has relevant info and is calling some people "out" regarding the limiting in mastering issue. I have been following that with interest.

** J. Hall is borderline caricature. No redeeming info ever comes out of his forum, or so it seems. Lately, he seems to be REALLY floundering trying to find topics that have any interest at all. Again, I'm sure it is hard. I think he pushes people away at times . . not because of the cynicism, just the non info.

** I get sick of the "Name The Best cd That Has A Dog On The Cover" . . . . . type posts at forums.

Why don't more people take advantage of Nika and John Klett's knowledge?

** I am not a digital recorder so Nika does nothing for me. I DO go to Klett's forum, seems like he is never there though.

** It would be nice if these places were more about tricks, tips learned etc then "Which cd Has The Best . . . . . ." type posts. I get more from some of your "tips" etc then most people that have forums.

I'm kinda the forum 'pit boss' over there... so you tell me, what can I do to make it a better resource for the community?
Old 3rd December 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Re: So whaddaya like, or hate about "PSW's recpit"

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
.

Are the Mixerman diaries distracting to the larger event?

What about Brad Blackwood's or J. Hall's forum?

Why don't more people take advantage of Nika and John Klett's knowledge?
no I really dig em.. the amount of **** slinging that goes on by the posters is aggrivating though. Pretty much I think folks understand that MM's forum is for the bull**** posts, yours is for recording in general questions, Brads for mastering, Nika and John are both very topic specific but very useful libraries ( I do a bunch of lurking at those two, lots to learn) I have spent much time in Seva' or J Halls forum, so no comment.. Bob's forum has been total **** every time I have looked, so no going there anymore either...

Quote:

Have I let my forum get into too much 'personality mud slinging'?

I dont think so.... but hey, next to MM and Bob's forums, you would have to let it get wayyyy out of hand to be noticed

And hey, for the record, it does not at all come accross as a "Fletcher act" to me seems your personality is pretty consistent.

keep up the good work!
Old 3rd December 2002
  #10
Gear interested
 
Ohso's Avatar
 

Where's Slipperman?
Old 3rd December 2002
  #11
Gear interested
 
GT40sc's Avatar
 

PSW

Ok, I've got a practical one for you...

I prefer the Gearslutz forum because the PSW bulletin board design is hard to read...

the print is too small and too thin...I can't adjust the text size in the view menu of my browser...why not? It works on this forum...

Yeah, yeah, middle-aged eyes and all that, but still, bad design.

I became an audio engineer because I can HEAR better than I can SEE...

whatever,
Old 3rd December 2002
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Fletcher,

There's something depressing about the whole vibe of the RecPit site. It's just an ugly site. You, Brad, and Nika all deserve better. Yous three should all move here to Gearslutz.

Julian actually moderates and police's this site, and I'm sorry but that is refreshing. It keeps this place "pro," at least in spirit. I like seeing derogatory and blatantly off-topic garbage deleted.

After being lured here to Gearslutz, I really don't lurk anywheres else much anymore. MusicPlayer is a ****ing graveyard of a chatroom. RecPit has too much of MM's baggage clogging it. I know he's your bud, and I know he thinks I hate him, and I don't. I like (MM's real identity) as a person, and as a professional, but his online shenanigens (the PT HD "Bass-Lite" fiasco and the "Bitch-Slap" fiasco to name a few) have been miscalculations at best. Too much static, attracting too much of the wrong elements. Some of us have real work to do and don't want to waste time watching soap operas.

You, Fletcher...you need a respectable forum. You want one, and we want you to have one, for our benefit and yours. You need a better venue. Jules??

Brad Blackwood...ditto.

Nika...ditto, especially. Digital is here to stay. I remember the old flamewars between analog & digital. Now, all the analog hold-outs have recognized digital, as have the digital newbies (like Yours Truly) come to appreciate analog. Nika has a genius for bridging that gap, and his expertise would be well-served if he had a forum where pro audio was the dominant subject.

RecPit isn't cuttin' it in that regard. Nika's grasp of the "black science" of digital recording is something to behold, you have to admit: how convertors work, how dithering works, how a DAW's math allocates...all of these little things that add up to the difference between "That ****ty Digital Sound" and "Recorded And Mixed All In The Box And Sounds Better Than Analog." And, yeah, I got straight D's in high school math classes too, but Nika has this gift for explaining it all in terms that even an idiot like me can understand. We want to have a guy like that around, right? Jules??

[/rant]
Old 3rd December 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
AudioGaff's Avatar
Fletcher, You have become an international star and embassador of gear experience. With that unintentional title you also have a cult following of every kid, hack and smuck on the net looking for the best $100 mic, $300 compressor ect. I'd like to see a forum with guys like you spending way less time focused on gear and more on the technical challanges, recording techniques and how to help/develop ways to capture the magic/vibe of perfomers and performance. How to overcome problems and obstacles while obtaining a great recording and a smooth session has a lot more value to me than which preamp is crap or which compressor spanks harder than another.

Something inbetween using the right gear for the task and the thought process behind choosing and using it, as well as the little tid bits of experience like in the Mixerman diary would be ideal.

And to keep the riff-raff out, every member has to pass a test to verify some min. standard. Let the hacks and newbies go elsewhere for their beginner learnings.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #14
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
The RecPit seems to be getting back on track. It was a real drag for a while. I like the diary, but I got sick of the first page of yours and MMs page being full of BS discussions. The vibe is a lot more aggressive there these days. There is great knowledge there, but there are a lot of boneheads there too. (Can you tell Slipperman to go away please--he's just a waste of bandwidth!)?

I like Brad's forum a lot. He's very knowledgeable, and clear. I'm hoping to have him master some things next year. J. and I have become Internet friends and I really dig his forum. I wish more people went there. It gets a little slow, but the discussions are good. What's up on Bob's forum? It used to be really cool and now they don't even seem to talk about recording. Klet is great, but mostly over my head, though I've been able to get things from his forum. Nika is very smart, but I use a tape deck. I master in the box and he has been helpful. Harvey is totally kick-ass as he has always been. His "beginner vibe" is cool, but I find I already know a lot of what's discussed there. I learned a lot form him over at RAP and am better for it! I do pop in there, but not like I do at yours, J. Brad's and MM.

It seems that only J. and Brad are initiating posts and "directing traffic." MM has been too busy and hasn't done one of his polls in a while, or his philosophy posts in a while. You've always been more reactive then them, but with focus. I think if someone is a moderator they should also be the guiding force of the forum. There are times when it seems like the inmates are running the asylum.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #15
FWIW (incidentally one of your favourite phrases)
I pretty much agree with everything that's been said up to now.
I don't bother to look at ProRec much now I've found Gearslutz. I find this site much more good natured and basically informative. I used to look at the J.Hall forum quite a bit because there was quite a bit of banter about production (as in the mechanics of getting a performance to a final record) but lately J. doesn't seem to be around much. The only other forum I regularly viewed was Fletcher.
Sorry to say that Slipperman knocked the stuffing out of everything I enjoyed at ProRec. I find his contributions completely banal and just goddam tiresome to be honest. Mixerman likewise. It was fine when he kept to his own forum but when his subject matters started infect everybody elses I got pissed off.
As a working musician I meet enough ego driven, opinionated producer/engineer what-have you's, slagging all the musicians off, bragging about their latest mix or project. I get enough of that kind of stress without having to read about it on my downtime.
Even with my limited equipment experience I find I generally agree with Fletcher's views and I also find it refreshing to get a straight answer.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #16
Gear Head
 

I like MM diary, thats what dragged me there in the first place, after that i went through every post and found some really good advice.
But i think the tone have change there recently, and now theres not many post about music or equipment and many probably dont dare since you gonna get your ass kicked for even trying to post something seriously.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #17
Gear maniac
 
RSMITH123's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Drumsound
...I got sick of the first page of yours and MMs page being full of BS discussions. ... The vibe is a lot more aggressive there these days. There is great knowledge there, but there are a lot of boneheads there too.
This is how I see it as well. Too much spam. Not as informative as others although I still consider it valuable. Keep at it.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
Eric writes:
Quote:
Julian actually moderates and police's this site, and I'm sorry but that is refreshing. It keeps this place "pro," at least in spirit. I like seeing derogatory and blatantly off-topic garbage deleted.
Jules deletes posts? News to me. You would think I would know.

I went to the RecPit tonight. Haven't been there much, just a few times to use the search engine. I took a peak at Mixerman's diary to see what all the fuss was about, but it's a protracted tome and I was unwilling to catch up.

So I left.

Then I went to Fletcher's forum. Pretty funny stuff. The honcho from Bombfactory had posted some missive called "Attack of the Clones," and several forumites took issue with it. One guy reminded the Bombfactory honcho that his company made software clones of hardware models, such as the 1176 and LA-2A. An argument ensued. At one point, the exasperated fellow wrote, "Well, maybe I'll make a new product and call it 'I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Classic-Compressors.'"

My retelling wasn't as good as the original -- and I definitely oversimplified the discussion on the thread -- but that was one funny line. I'm still laughing.

Of course, many of the posts on Fletcher's forum barely touched on the subject of pro audio, but it didn't bother me at all. Some would call me unfocused. I would call them myopic. An argument would ensue.

During my brief stay, I also noticed that the more substantive forums -- such as the ones moderated by Aldrich, Blackwood and Klett -- showed fewer posts than their livlier counterparts. It could be a spurious correlation, though; perhaps these forums were created at a later date.

Or maybe not.

After reading through the posts here, there seems to be a consensus forming in this thread. Many say they are tired of Mixerman's diary. There's a simple solution to that problem. Just don't click on the link.

In other posts, a few people said they didn't attend the more substantial forums because the topics were devoted to the digital domain, while they themselves were not. Now there's the seed of an idea. Why not create another forum at the RecPit, one devoted to analog? If the goal is to "make it a better resource for the community," then that might be a step in the right direction.

And since I used to be a copy editor and old habits die harder than cliches, I have one more suggestion: You might want to correct the typo in the search engine graphic where it reads, "Limit charaters returned to:"

Clearly, the RecPit is vastly different from GearSlutz. RecPit offers audio professionals a place to blow off steam, whereas the majority of people here seem to be sensitive, serious types who want to further their audio education. And that's... okay.

Me? I just want to find out how to get a killer DI'ed bass and heavenly acoustic guitar sound, then I'm outta here. Don't get me wrong. There's a lot of amazing people here doing amazing things. But it's so much Guy Kawasaki to me.

Jasper
Old 3rd December 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Re: So whaddaya like, or hate about "PSW's recpit"

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher
I can't really ask the question there, so I figured I'd ask it here. As for it being "slow" that's in heavy development to be corrected... I'm talking more about content, moderators, etc.

I'm kinda the forum 'pit boss' over there... so you tell me, what can I do to make it a better resource for the community?
The same thing happens over and over. A great resource known to a small community becomes popular and starts to get overrun with a wide range of folks. As a result the average level of expertise drops, more newbies repeatedly asking questions that either have no answer or have been answered hundreds of times in the past. Older veterens of the community try to remain polite and answer, or get cantankerous and leave or spew more venom. Others with more time on their hands use the forum as a personal playground and that encourages more to do the same. Pretty soon it spirals down out of control and either devolves into a caricture of its former self or there's a mass exodus.

What to do about it?

Let it go or police the crap out of it. One requires more work than the other. The ability to sign up with a new anonymous name makes the policing part more difficult. But you can get it to the point where it's too much work for people to keep doing it and they eventually just give up the game. Maybe impose a 2 or 3 day waiting period before allowing a new sign up to post to the forums.

Encourage people to shut up if they have nothing to say. There's nothing wrong with logging into a forum and seeing no new messages. There's no prize for publishing the most or the funniest or nastiest post to a forum.

The PSW recpit seems to be hit or miss. I repair my own synths, effects, and such, so John K's forum is always nice to have around; I don't really do much digital, so those forums don't apply. Mixerman's and Fletcher's forums have good information buried there, but it's a pain in the ass to slog through lots of posts looking for it.

Something that would be nice to have for new people is a "Search the forum" box. In an ideal world, it would allow me to pull up Fletcher's forum, and enter a search string like 'purchasing used mixing console' and display the topics that had discussions about buying a used board. Useful information has been keyed into the PSW recpit area, but it's a bitch to try and find it.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
Quote:
Something that would be nice to have for new people is a "Search the forum" box. In an ideal world, it would allow me to pull up Fletcher's forum, and enter a search string like 'purchasing used mixing console' and display the topics that had discussions about buying a used board. Useful information has been keyed into the PSW recpit area, but it's a bitch to try and find it.
Excellent point. None give you exactly what you want, but the search engine at RecPit dredges up tons of BS.

Hey, if the search engines worked better, all I'd ever post would be the occasional question of clarification.

And that would be a good thing.

Jasper
Old 3rd December 2002
  #21
I direct 'awake' and curious about the music biz folks in bands I work with to the MM diaries, for pseudo education & entertainment, several are hooked. I direct very few of my clients to web audio forums like PSW & Gearslutz.com, I think they would find them all boring... but thats bands for ya...


Old 3rd December 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Jasper
Excellent point. None give you exactly what you want, but the search engine at RecPit dredges up tons of BS.

Hey, if the search engines worked better, all I'd ever post would be the occasional question of clarification.

And that would be a good thing.

Jasper
To be honest, I forgot there was a 'Search Forum' option on the PSW recpit until just the other day. Then I tried it a few times and rememebred why I forgot it was there. :eek: Since the UI is in place, look at upgrading or replacing the engine. Then you can tell folks to use it.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #23
Gear Head
 
nick's Avatar
 

The best thing about this forum, apart from the brilliant s/n ratio (which is about 10 times better than PSW), is the software/design.

The thing where you can click 'view new posts' and see everything since your last visit is great, instead of having to go to all the individual forums. Also those little arrows that let you go to the first unread post. And the fact you can see previous posts at the bottom of the page when you go to 'post reply'... etc. etc. etc.

+ its much faster.

i don't go to the RecPit forums much except to read the MM diary sometimes. cause invariably the only new things posted on the main forums will be yet more slanging matches. While I do enjoy the diary, since its inception the site has definetely taken a turn for the worse.



The mastering forum's good though.

Nick
Old 3rd December 2002
  #24
Gear maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 

Let it be...

Because of my job I have to skim all of the boards looking for dbx tech support questions. I have noticed a marked increase of newbies and OT posts on both Fletcher's and Mixerman's boards in comparison to others. I don't think it's that big of a deal though, it'll even out.

The folks who are there for entertainment will soon discover that we audio dorks are a pretty boring bunch. We talk a lot of the same stuff into the ground. And I swear, after a righteous tangle with some of the local curmudgeons the trolls will scoot off with their tails between their legs.

Slipperman makes me laugh, and so does Rumblemix. I honestly can't understand why some don't understand their value. We too easily get caught up in minutae, so I dig when somebody can slap me in the face and show me how silly and anal I'm being.

Truthfully, in the big picture, a LOT of the audio stuff we get bent about means very little. I like to be reminded of that. I also like to refresh my basic skills by explaining gain structure to a newbie. Sometimes I'll even get thrown a curve ball by some seemingly simple question, keeps me sharp.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, embrace the craziness.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #25
Gear Addict
 
mitgong's Avatar
 

I agree with most of the criticisms (and complements) leveled so far. I generally find out about stuff here first, and leave more excited about what I do than over at the RecPit. MM's diaries are like a car crash, but I do keep craning my neck.

Also, when I'm there I love to pop over to the "Old Soundman" page. Now there is attitude with style, all wrapped around tasty morsels of true wisdom.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #26
Lives for gear
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenton


PS Have always appreciated Jules posts as well and I think this is by far the best site of all of them.
High content of help and discussion. Low content of bull****.
I agree, Gearslutz is the best forum to me because it has less or no ego issues going on among it's members and seems to be the most democratic (ie no political BS or derrogitory circus atmosphere), hopefully this gem won't change. If I want entertainment I can turn on the TV or go to a show, if I want to talk serious audio, Gearslutz is a nice place to be. YMMV.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #27
Lives for gear
 
faeflora's Avatar
 

I can't stand the clutter from the mixerman posts.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #28
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 

I pretty much agree with everything that has been posted here so far!

I enjoy reading MM's diary. I think he is an entertaining writer. I just wish his diary were in a book or on some website apart from the chatty groups so there wouldn't be this propensity for psw to become a book club. Like kinda sorta...

Jules is the coolest because he has a link to all these other chat groups here on his site.



And no ads! Who does pay for this thing anyway?
Old 3rd December 2002
  #29
Lives for gear
 
DigitMus's Avatar
 

I still haunt a lot of forums, though I don't post much - don't really like to hear myself talk either... All I can tell you, Fletcher, is ditto, ditto, ditto. The Bitch Slap Chronicals, while mildly entertaining, have drawn in too many of the 'wrong' sort of people. I do sometimes enjoy people like Slipperman, Rumblemix, even bbchessman - but a little goes a long way. I find your forum the most informative and like your moderating style, though I sometimes think you could be a bit more active with trimming the superfluous. I don't usually bother with Seva, J.Hall or Bob Buontempo, and MM less and less as time goes by. I check with Nika, John Klett and Brad Blackwood periodically (great S/N but not often applicable to my situation). Harvey is a national institution and his presence is a great boon to the newbies, homereccers and those of us who need an occasional refresher - but there doesn't seem to be much activity on his forum - maybe you could move a few more of the "best ___ under $____" posts, or the "does the compressor go before or after the preamp and where do I put the BBE?" stuff over there.

Scott
Old 3rd December 2002
  #30
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

I especially like the articles and transcripts-like the one with Rupert Neve.
Maybe if there were more related article/transcript topics initiated by the
moderators there would be less filler. Do you think a "FAQ" section, that
would be periodically updated, would help much?

Chris
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