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Drum Samples
Old 15th August 2004
  #1
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LumenStudio's Avatar
 

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Drum Samples

Lots of talk on replacing drum sounds with samples lately. I am recording my own album and I program all of the drums using midi and BFD acoustic drum samples.

I'd like to hear what samples people are using for:

1) Imitating a whole acoustic drum kit

2) Augmenting drums that have been recorded in your studio

3) Electronica drum samples



Cheers
Old 15th August 2004
  #2
Gear nut
 

I tend to design a lot of electronic samples by layering synthesised and sampled sounds and manipulating. I make many, many electronic loops so this is something Iv become very used to doing. Its not as 'natural' as recording a kit, but worth getting into.

Trust me, layering is the key to it.

PS. For live drum loops (using samples) I used DFH. Its ok but i dont like the long ambience noise after the hit. Even when using a gate if find this a problem. Think i will try BFD soon.
Old 15th August 2004
  #3
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

I've been using the Bob Clearmountain 2 drum sample CD for a few years now. Haven't heard anything else. I figure there are better ones by now. But that one is pretty cool.
Old 15th August 2004
  #4
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copal's Avatar
 

i would highly recommend sonic implants drum series 1. check out the mp3's on thier site. i tend to use these samples more than DFH, but YMMV.
Old 15th August 2004
  #5
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I've heard and played with BFD and DFH - both are superb..
I also really like Sonic Reality's 'Interactive Drums'..
"-)

Sonic Reality
Old 15th August 2004
  #6
I just got BFD myself.

I'd love to get a Machinedrum for electronic drums.

Sometimes I use the stock samples that came with Reason along with their Redrum pattern sequencer.
Old 15th August 2004
  #7
Gear nut
 

The Redrum sample content is very good stuff, particularly for breaky type stuff.
Old 16th August 2004
  #8
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heinz's Avatar
 

For #1 & 2 I like DFH as well as the Steve Smith disc.
Old 16th August 2004
  #9
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Phil Buckle's Avatar
 

DFH Superior. Changed my life.
I have almost every drum Sample CD known to man including BFD.
Nothing comes close.
BFD is erased from my drive. Someone want to buy it?
Old 16th August 2004
  #10
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Pardon my ignorance, but Whats DFH? I've been making my own 96k samples and I'm happy most of the time. bfd sounded good for prepro demos but it ran like a piece of sh*t on my mac dual gig,Crashed 95% of the time.After 6 months of trying to get help I gave up...BYE BYE BFD!!![$300.00].They recommended setting it up on separate pc ...It's Buuullllssh****t!!
Old 16th August 2004
  #11
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RoundBadge
Pardon my ignorance, but Whats DFH?
[D]rumkits [F]rom [H]ell.

Pretty dope stuff, but it takes up a large chunk of drive space.
Old 16th August 2004
  #12
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally posted by Phil Buckle
DFH Superior. Changed my life.
I have almost every drum Sample CD known to man including BFD.
Nothing comes close.
BFD is erased from my drive. Someone want to buy it?
I thought I was the only one with every acoustic drum sample CD known to man. I must have been ignorant skipping DFH superior. Does it really blow away BFD?
Old 16th August 2004
  #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by LumenStudio
I thought I was the only one with every acoustic drum sample CD known to man. I must have been ignorant skipping DFH superior. Does it really blow away BFD?
For me, absolutely. If I was doing alt folk/acoustic music then BFD would have covered that. I'm mainly involved in pop/rock and BFD didn't have the meat and potatoes for me. Kicks with no natural subs and snares with no natural tops and not a lot of choice either. The hats were unusable for me and they should have replaced those (and the cymbals) with a free update. Also there were no brushes or blasticks. They have those areas covered with their new expansion pack but they are going to charge you a lot of money for it.

DFHS comes with everything you will need. The drums are recorded more to my taste although they still have no processing. These guys know how to record drums.
Also you have to check out the bleed mike controls. Man this thing sounds like the drummer is in the next room. The bleed is just so real.
Also there is the ability to bounce your tracks from within the app.
I did not like the room sound in BFD at all and it's my guess that the overall dullnes of the samples has something to do with the programming of the room and ambience controls.
DFHS is the closest thing to a real kit but be warned, you must have your drum engineering chops together. You will be using the same techniques as you would with a real kit.

Check out the Toontracks site. The latest version runs very well with PT via Rewire and I use it every day.
Read the manual thoroughly paying particular attention to the cache switch and have plenty of Ram and a fast computer.
Old 16th August 2004
  #14
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Alécio Costa's Avatar
 

hi

I prefer this way:
Record the drummer, do the necessary quickpunches and at the end of sesions, some solid drum hits for snare , rim shot and kick drums samples.
Properly recorded, no leakage and there it is.
Important, multimiking shall be the way to go and of course, if necessary, blend with room/overhead mics.
Old 16th August 2004
  #15
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Anybody using DFH in 96k prootools sessions?Can you use the samples [importing]with sound replacer?the demos have more balls than BFD .....[Worthless,NEVER worked correctly] but I need it for preproduction demos and the samples for layers on real drums.Is it a CPU HOG like BFD?Speed & Efficiency are everything!! thanks ...RB
Old 16th August 2004
  #16
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Phil Buckle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by RoundBadge
Anybody using DFH in 96k prootools sessions?Can you use the samples [importing]with sound replacer?the demos have more balls than BFD .....[Worthless,NEVER worked correctly] but I need it for preproduction demos and the samples for layers on real drums.Is it a CPU HOG like BFD?Speed & Efficiency are everything!! thanks ...RB
I'm running Accel 2 but only at 48k.
Yes it is a total CPU hog and I bounce as soon as possible.
I guess you could sound replace with the samples but you would be paying a lot of money for features you are not going to use.
I think there are 30 or 40 samples under every key for all the different velocities.
DFHS also has a feature that will always choose a different sample than the previous, so no 2 succesive snare or kick hits are the same.
Plus you would not be using the bleed or the overheads or the ambience.
It's 35 gigs worth of samples.

Speed and efficiency? I would think twice about DFHS. It's going to slow you down a bit I think.
Old 16th August 2004
  #17
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Thanks Phil
Old 16th August 2004
  #18
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Phil,

I also think DFHS is outstanding, but one thing that bothers me about it.

How do you audition sounds, be it kick/snare/hat etc., while you're in the "Construct" page without having to go to the Main page to hear them?

Thx
Dean
Old 16th August 2004
  #19
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Phil Buckle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Imagine
Phil,

I also think DFHS is outstanding, but one thing that bothers me about it.

How do you audition sounds, be it kick/snare/hat etc., while you're in the "Construct" page without having to go to the Main page to hear them?

Thx
Dean
You can't. I think they are working on that issue.
It's certainly not perfect but for my taste it's the best out there.
I've gotten used to flicking to the next page to audition....anyway it has to load the sound into Ram.

DFHS has really helped me deliver better sounding tracks and the guys at Toontracks seem to be working on it all the time.
Although I doubt if DFHS's performance with PTools will ever improve. They are stuck with the way PTools handles Rewire and while that seems to work fine with Live and Reason the enormous use of Ram with any Sotsampler seems to screw PTools after any length of time.
It's certainly not a seemless integration but it is workable and most importantly it sounds so good.

I must add that I really didn't have any problems getting BFD to work either. Once you get your memory cache sorted out then that app should work fine..............well at least as good as any other Ram intensive softsampler in PTools.
Old 16th August 2004
  #20
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Thread Starter
Thanks for all of the info. BFD runs fine on my PC once the samples load.

How about BFD XFL? Anybody try that compared to DFHS ?

I of course am always looking for something better!
Old 16th August 2004
  #21
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RoundBadge's Avatar
You guys are all running BFD @ 44/48K right?@ 96 its ****e.
Old 17th August 2004
  #22
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I know this is only my opinion but I think BFD destroys any other drum program period. DFHS is alright but it does not sound as real as BFD at all. The trick with BFD I have found is to add a little kik/snare sample in with the BFD sounds. Kinda like you do with a real kit when mixing. I have had excellent results with BFD. I will post some stuff tomorrow when I'm in my studio. The freedom of room oH's and PZM mics rule!!! By the way I only use the DW kit, it sounds the best by far.
Old 17th August 2004
  #23
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally posted by pony
I know this is only my opinion but I think BFD destroys any other drum program period. DFHS is alright but it does not sound as real as BFD at all. The trick with BFD I have found is to add a little kik/snare sample in with the BFD sounds. Kinda like you do with a real kit when mixing. I have had excellent results with BFD. I will post some stuff tomorrow when I'm in my studio. The freedom of room oH's and PZM mics rule!!! By the way I only use the DW kit, it sounds the best by far.
pony,

This is really good to hear. I just spent the evening mixing using BFD samples and found the key for me was to adjust the trim of each kit peice in BFD, not the trim of the direct mics (which is a separate control), but of the kit peice. What this did for me was adjust the relative levels of all of the drums in the overhead mic feeds, room mic feeds, and pzm mic feed. I was able to crank the overheads and room mics much more than I could stand before. I really had to lower the hi-hat and cymbals. I line out all of the drums from BFD (no summing) out to my DM24 board. My results tonight were much better. I think my engineering is the weakest link at this point. A few more velocities on the snare would be good though. Maybe XFL would be just the thing.

FWIW, after I play a few loops BFD runs great (after loading the samples for the first time).

Cheers
Old 17th August 2004
  #24
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Gradation's Avatar
 

Just curious ... has anyone been happy with Greg Morrow's samples? "Discrete Drums", if I recall correctly.
Old 17th August 2004
  #25
Gear nut
 

Sorry for the stupid question...what is BFD?

m.t.
Old 17th August 2004
  #26
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Old 17th August 2004
  #27
Gear Head
 

Yes with the right tweaking BFD rules!!!!
It is however quite buggy. I run a PT HD system (BFD thru Rewire) and I have to start and stop the program a few times to get it running smoothly. Once it's there it stays and is a joy to work with. It is the closest thing to having a real drummer and believe me I have fooled everyone.
Old 17th August 2004
  #28
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pony--I have both BFD and dfhs. Have you tried dfhs? It really does sound somewhat better than BFD. I've been using these two programs for several months, and without the proper eq, and compression, they both suck!heh

Once the right amount of eq/comp/gate is added, they're exceptionally wonderful to have when the drummers out of town!
Old 17th August 2004
  #29
Gear Head
 

I have only previewed DFH and I wasn't blown away. Perhaps if I got deeper into it I would be. You are right about BFD needing eq'n and comp'n. But I would do that with any drums anywhere. It's not as good as the real deal but man it's getting really close. Hey I live in West Hollywood on Dorrington Ave!! My studio is in Hollywood by Mann's Chinese
Old 17th August 2004
  #30
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I'd have to agree, they do some remarkable.

Hey I'm on Gardner Street, between SM and Melrose. Great having GC, Manny's and Sam Ash a few blocks away!heh
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