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Reverb/Echo
Old 18th May 2004
  #1
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Digital Noob's Avatar
 

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Reverb/Echo

Charles,
I recently read your archived material at Digi's site and read the articles surrounding the Crease project.

I was suprised to see (if I saw correctly) the number of different verbs and such you would use in a song. If I'm not mistaken, I saw that in addition to having specific verbs for certain tracks, such as Vox Verb, Drum Verb, Gtr Verb, you also had more than 1 verb for a particular track and would even vary the amounts during different song sections.

All that being said, when you sit down to mix a song in that style ("Live to be in love" or similar), are there verb-types or echo-verb combos that you automatically pull up for key tracks? ex. Small room on drums, plate on Vox, 1/8 triplet washed in hall on BGV, etc.

Im hoping to see what tools you prefer for creating depth and space in that type of mix. Anyones else's opinions are certainly appreciated as well.
Thank you
Old 19th May 2004
  #2
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Re: Reverb/Echo

Lexiverb is great!!!!
Old 19th May 2004
  #3
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I often have as much as 7 or 8 different reverbs (plates / rooms / halls/...) running for one mix.

Some of them might only come in once or twice during a mix . Send levels are frequently automated thoughout different sections of the song. It's hard to be detailed about it because the options are virtually endless and it would definately depend on the desired effect wanted.

one typical example I'll use a lot : my lead vocal will remain rather 'dry' or with a small hall on it during a song .... then when the last chorusses set in and the lead goes ad lib, I'll automate either an extra or another 'bigger' hall in on the lead to create a distance effect.

Another example of automation of reverbs is a 'stop / silence' in the middle of the song. Leaving all reverbs on all tracks can kill the effect ... taking out / automation fades of sends can help with that.

As for delays ... similar as with reverbs ... definately more frequently automated.
Old 20th May 2004
  #4
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Thanks Chris...

What I read prior and what you have posted is broadening my thinking. I never before imagined layering effects to this degree or have that many pallettes available. I appreciate the idea of layering a thicker verb late in a song.

I guess my question could have been a little more specific but being new, it sometimes seems hard to describe things intelligently.

Example...
Most modern rock is being recorded with very little ambience, compared to rock of old and current pop. I don't think you would see, for example, a large hall on a drum kit or snare (just heard Ozzy's "Shot in the dark" snare was "Gi-normus"). If I am learning... what I hear now mostly is smallish rooms or small plates.

In that vein (modern rock), what are the leanings of people mixing? Are plates your fav for kits or small to medium rooms(bright/dark)? Are verb washed echos your fav for vocs or just smallish verbs, again?

I'm just looking for ideas from people making this genre work well that may spark some growth for me. I posted in Charles' forum and am responding to you, Chris but, I'm open to anyone's ideas or experience.

thanks again, Chris
Noob
Old 20th May 2004
  #5
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Re: Reverb/Echo

Quote:
Originally posted by Digital Noob
Are there verb-types or echo-verb combos that you automatically pull up for key tracks? ex. Small room on drums, plate on Vox, 1/8 triplet washed in hall on BGV, etc.
DN,

My starting points were what I was trying to demonstrate with the sessions in HDL. Beyond that, after bringing up an effect I always pay very close attention to my gut. The second I feel a tinge of "no that doesn't sound right". I mute the effect, listen to the dry track again + focus my concentration on the imagined soundscape in my mind's ear for what new sound it places around the naked instrument. Once I hear it, I try to make it a reality.
Quote:
Im hoping to see what tools you prefer for creating depth and space in that type of mix.
I find that depth + space is a lot easier than it seems. The trick is to find one or possibly two instruments that you place in the back of the mix. These tracks get the largest ambience you are using (hall, plate, whatever), they don't have to play all the time, but when they do they define what I call the back wall of the mix. These tracks demonstrate how large a space the rest of the mix resides in.

Additionally, panning these tracks more towards the center and making their EQ not too bright gives them a more realistic sound. For sounds I want to seem really far away I will even use a LPF to roll off the top end. Air does not transmit high frequencies as well as lows and mids. This really adds to the realism.

Now, the only way for this to work is if many other tracks do not have this same large reverb on them. A big sounding track does not require lots of goopy reverb on a lot of the tracks. A perfect example of this is the drum kit. It's size is mainly defined by the verb on the snare. The kick, hat + cymbals do not have to be wet to accomplish this.

Next, I find a few other tracks (again, not a lot) that I place in a more medium space, like a medium to short plate. And finally I leave many tracks with no reverb at all. On these tracks I may use a delay or chorus, or the split harmonizer effect (which when loud enough actually sounds kind of like a very small room--all reflections no reverb tail.)

This is how I normally define space + create separation in a mix.

Hope this helps.
Old 20th May 2004
  #6
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Thanks for the reply and for pointing me back to the archives. I missed a lot before but made many notes. The depth in which you shared was awesome, thanks.
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