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drum panning
Old 21st May 2004
  #31
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Cool. Thanks

My eyes feel a bit weird now after checking out that page. Pretty cool though. Anyone like ORTF over XY for width? In a DAW what would be the best panning method for ORTF?

Keith
Old 21st May 2004
  #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by music
Anyone like ORTF over XY for width? In a DAW what would be the best panning method for ORTF?

Keith
I've never really liked XY and don't use it much, actually never...spaced pairs, even normal ortf offer quite a bit of a wider image and to me sound better.
Old 21st May 2004
  #33
LTA
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Quote:
Originally posted by music
Anyone like ORTF over XY for width? In a DAW what would be the best panning method for ORTF?
First, i'm going to define ORTF as the textbook cardioids angled at 110° and spaced 17cm apart. Also, XY is coincident cardioid microphones angled at 90°.

Both XY and ORTF can be made to go speaker to speaker with the direct source. If you put both stereo techniques up at the same distance from a source and with mics panned hard left and right, the XY will be noticibly narrower than the ORTF. That doesn't mean you can't get XY to go full speaker Get two people to stand ±90° from the "front" of the mic, so the mic is directly between you. Have each person make some noise. Should be pretty close to speaker-speaker sound. ORTF imo achieves this about ±45° from center. So, to answer your first question, both techniques can get full width. It should be fairly obvious you can't wrap a drumset 180° around a mic, but it doesn't mean you can't get 2 drummers Both techniques yield different imaging and depth, so i'd say each is unique enough that i do actually use both on occasion.

Now, in a DAW (or analog console for that matter), ORTF comes out best panned hard to the sides. It works its phasey magic in the air, but gets canceled out to a point if the two signals mix electrically. If you do mix them, you'll get some comb filtering from maybe 2k on up, depending on angle of incidence to the array. Who knows, it may be an effect you like. Pop it into mono to get the unrated version. You can use something like the Waves S1 stereo imager to tweak the image a bit more effectively than with pan pots.

Now, the best way to alter pan with ORTF is to move the instrument to the left or right of center, out to about 45° or so while tracking. This requires some semblance of an idea concerning what you want the final product to be. Then you can alter the width by moving in or away from the mic, also keeping in mind room to direct sound ratios. Tweaking the mic angles would be another direction of exploration, but then we wouldn't be using ORTF anymore, would we?
Old 21st May 2004
  #34
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Thread Starter
ive seen engineers using a tape measure for correct oh spacing. is there a rule of thumb for spacing oh mics to acheive proper phaze?
Old 21st May 2004
  #35
LTA
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Quote:
Originally posted by maskedman72
ive seen engineers using a tape measure for correct oh spacing. is there a rule of thumb for spacing oh mics to acheive proper phaze?
Spaced pair overheads (on drumset) are kind of a black art. I have seen people measure off the floor, but i am of the opinion i am recording a drumset rather than the floor, and will base my distances off some portion of the drumset.

First, pick either the loudest instrument in the kit (or the hypothetical center of the kit, if you want). Then you put up an overhead left and right of the center, parallel to the line between the hypothetical left and right of the kit. Pull out the tape measure (or a piece of string) and measure between the snare and the overheads, adjusting them so they are equidistant to whatever you decided was the center of the kit. Keeping it simple, you will also want the mics to be equidistant to the floor, but focusing them on the center of the kit should be the primary concern. Move the mics closer together for less stereo spread, and farther apart for a wider picture. Getting the mics too far apart can create a hole in the center of the image, and also leads to phase problems at the edges of the kit. I am just going to make up a number and say 2-3 feet apart would be as good a starting place as any.

Spaced pairs won't give you razor-sharp imaging. Its really good for things you put towards the middle or back of a mix, such as background choir vocals and huge reverb-filled drum sounds. Most of my stereo micing experience was aquired doing live to 2 track recording, and for a long time I just didn't like the way the technique sounded (as compared to the others). My opinion has changed, and now i view the different techniques as more of a stack of lenses on a camera to get a specific effect. Also, omni mics are something i rediscovered a year or 2 ago, and i think they are highly underestimated in terms of use, especially in the spaced pair department.

Ever notice it is so much harder to try to convey the 'why' rather than the 'how?' Think about it
Old 21st May 2004
  #36
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by maskedman72
ive seen engineers using a tape measure for correct oh spacing. is there a rule of thumb for spacing oh mics to acheive proper phaze?

To add to what LTA said....they make "stereo bars" for stereo/surround mic'ing that can mount anywhere from 2-7 mic's and have measurements on them for angle and the distance between 2 mic's.
Old 21st May 2004
  #37
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Wow. It's so frickin' wierd. A few years ago NOBODY panned drummers perspective. I mean I did it because I thought it was unique. I got it from my drummer at the time and every time I mentioned it everybody went, "Oh? Never done that." This was '98. Well I know it's not THAT unique, but I find it interesting how things go in cycles.
Old 22nd May 2004
  #38
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studjo's Avatar
 

Audience perspective here - I don't play drums so I'm allowed toheh


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