The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Guitar Fizz
Old 18th April 2004
  #1
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
Guitar Fizz

When mixing heavy distorted guitars, how do you suggest getting rid of the fizz without destroying the presence? Basically, I play with the lowpass and try to add some mid/upper mids but it's always a struggle to really dial it in. Any tips?
Old 18th April 2004
  #2
Gear maniac
 

Try a low pass at 10 or 11k. But really it is in the recording phase. Move the mic away from the centre of the cone for less top end as a rule. Remember that most of the guitar tone is in the mid frequencies. By boosting something there you might reduce the fizz.
Old 18th April 2004
  #3
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
 

I find eq to be of little help when this happens. You need something like the Cranesong Phoenix or the Analog Channel stuff that effects the overall character. and yea, getting it right on the way in makes it all better!
Old 18th April 2004
  #4
Lives for gear
 
imacgreg's Avatar
Mesa Double/Triple Rectifiers = FIZZ. Well... that's been the story of the project I'm, working on right now. The gtr players suck all the midrange out, boost the top and bottom almost all the way and crank the gain. Sounds good in the room with the amp, but that's Fletcher-Munson doing the work for ya. Miced in the CR it sounds like absolute ass.

My workaround has been lowering gain and bass on the amp (don't let the guitar player see you..) and I'm also running a JCM800 at the same time for some real midrange. It's still a balancing act because they want a big guitar sound, but scooped mids! Double/Triple tracking can be your friend. LP helps the fizz, but can make the guitars to dark. You want them in your face. Gotta try the analog channel...

Kinda went off topic...
Ian
Old 19th April 2004
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Ribbon mics or something else fat sounding. Low passing guitars makes them dull.
Old 21st April 2004
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Unknown soldier's Avatar
 

I have the same issues micing a mesa studio preamp, 50/50 power amp and a recto 4/12. In the room, cranking the gain and treble knobs sound great, but when you mic it then it becomes too much fizz. The best way to deal with this, I've found, is to EQ out the fizz on the amp. May seem to kill the sound a bit to reduce the treble/upper mids, but makes the recording more tolerable. I also use the hi/lo console EQ on the ghost, which can act like high/low pass filters to some degree....

This is also where analog tape comes in handy - a mild automatic high end flattener. Digital makes it all apparent, in a less than glorious way....
Old 21st April 2004
  #7
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 

I wouldn't mess with the guitar head.....if it's set the way the player likes it then leave it alone...don't change that to make up for your recording.

First task is to find the speaker you like the best....then use some good mic's and adjust the placement untill you get it where you want it.
Then if there's still problems then subtractive EQ'ing is your friend....
I wouldn't use a low pass filter...that's crazy. I find a lot of times I like more air on everything...and low pass filtering would kill that. I'd say find the freq that's bothering you and cut it out...
Old 22nd April 2004
  #8
Fatso Jnr is what I use...

That and a Royer 121

PT / digital picks up WAY too much of the nasty 'paper tear' fizz

Old 22nd April 2004
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
Could somebody post an mp3 of a guitar with fizz. I think I know what you're talking about, but I'd rather hear so I definitely know what you're talking about.

Jasper
Old 22nd April 2004
  #10
Gear nut
 

i like lowpassing around 6-9k and then boosting above the lowpass, like around 15k and up.
Kills the guitarfizz without dulling it!

/mike
Old 22nd April 2004
  #11
Lives for gear
 
picksail's Avatar
 

Try scooping discretely at 8/9k. Then add a gentle hi shelf at 15/16k, just for some air or presence.
Old 22nd April 2004
  #12
Gear maniac
 

Try recording a split from the guitar before the amp as well as the mic just getting the clean di guitar. Then when the fizz offender has left the studio you can re-amp the guitar. He'll probably take all the credit for a great tone, but at least you will have a good sound for the mix.
Old 22nd April 2004
  #13
Sometime I like the Fizz....heh
(call me nuts)
Old 22nd April 2004
  #14
Lives for gear
 
el cochino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Gie-Sound
Sometime I like the Fizz....heh
(call me nuts)
Me too - makes the guitars sound so dirrrty.
Old 23rd April 2004
  #15
Gear addict
 
ixnys's Avatar
 

If you have a chance Charles could you chime in on this subject as well please.

How do you treat those "huge" rectifier sounds. How do you bring out the clarity and remove the hiss. How about compression? Since compression already takes place from the amps when the guitars are this overdriven, do you think there is still a need for compression in the mix?
Old 23rd April 2004
  #16
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
 

If I may say. I think you might be over thinking it. 90% of the sound is player, amp, mic and placement. To think about "treatments" sounds like band aids to me. Unless of course you're trying to salvage tracks that can't be re-recorded. I would focus on the front end first. Experiment with guitars, amps, and placement etc.
drew
Old 24th April 2004
  #17
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Gie-Sound
Sometime I like the Fizz....heh
(call me nuts)
Lately I've been trying to add "fizz" in mixing...
Old 24th April 2004
  #18
Gear Addict
 
RhOdEz's Avatar
 

maybe using that old cassete deck which is collecting dust like "effect" insert on already DAW-ed guitars is nice idea (if nothing better is present -2 track,4 track whutever )
that fizz is mostly high freq metallic spiky transients and tape sets em "back" ,so overall freq balance seems to be more relaxed.
not enuff high freq detal after that ? No prob ,thats whut high shelf eq is for eh .
If there's no way to monitor tape sound from playback head ,maybe adding timing spike at the start of each section could speed up nudging that old-skooled track back where it should be .
playing bit with input level wouldnt hurt either ...
some synth sounds like this too


Old 24th April 2004
  #19
Gear interested
 

Thread Starter
After viewing my guitar tracks with a spectrum analyzer, I noticed some tiny peaks. One at 6k, 7k and around 10k. I used a very narrow, deep, cut at these frequencies and it definetly seems to help. Just wondering how everyone elese deals with this problem.
Old 24th April 2004
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Empty Planet's Avatar
 

Sometimes this crops up. High end nearly-white-noise fizz that is wrong for the sound and is impossible to address at the 5 or 6k where it resides without muffling the presence.

Of course, hopefully we don't ever record anything with this serious a flaw. But if this is what we're working with... Here's a tip from a mix engineer in Australia. He sat in on a session with a mastering engineer and brought back this pointer. When the mastering engineer ran across the same problem, he didn't address it where the main fizz seemed to be happening, he went a wee bit lower. He took a nice eq, dialed in a paper thin slice and fished around 4k. That did it. Whether this pushes down some illogically non-properly-divisible root tone of "fizz" or whatever the reason, this trick works.

Add this trick to your bag, and don't forget to buy any visiting Australian mix engineer's a pint.

Cheers.
Old 24th April 2004
  #21
Lives for gear
 
cdog's Avatar
For distorted guitars I tend to highpass @ 100-300 hz and low pass @ 4-8 K, sometimes adding a wide, subtle lift in the 2-4K range. This will both help separate the bass from the guitar and also allow the vocals to sit above the guitars in the mix. Distorted guitars are already so compressed they rarely need treatment, but I do like a little small room reverb sometimes...
Old 24th April 2004
  #22
Lives for gear
 
stealthbalance's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by xyz
After viewing my guitar tracks with a spectrum analyzer, I noticed some tiny peaks. One at 6k, 7k and around 10k. I used a very narrow, deep, cut at these frequencies and it definetly seems to help. Just wondering how everyone elese deals with this problem.
--------------------------------------------------------------
thats exactly what i do - except i dont use a spectral analizer. plugs that get stupid narrow for me are filterbank b1 , sony oxford ( in type 2 mode) , and the tc eq sat. sometimes you can carve out as much as 20 db and it will not deter the gtr sound. low pass for me wouldn't work. high pass on gtrs are an everyday thing.
s
Old 25th April 2004
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
Quote:
high pass on gtrs are an everyday thing.
Glad somebody brought that up.

Jasper
Loading mentioned products ...
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
ceco / So much gear, so little time!
58
siegfried / So many guitars, so little time!
3
drBill / So much gear, so little time!
12
Beech / Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
9

Forum Jump