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Mac dual-gig real-world power
Old 11th September 2002
  #1
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Question Mac dual-gig real-world power

Would like to get some idea on an average session the capabilities of a dual-gig. I know what Motu and Apple SAYS it can do, but what have users been able to get with it using third party plugs and track counts (not a long contiguos one but after a lot of punch-ins and outs on different projects during the day)...that type of stuff.

My 350mhz G4 really needs upgrading, but I need some horsepower, sometimes I don't even have time to print tracks, needing to mix as I'm arranging. I'm currently using a Yamaha 4416 as a mixer/extra tracks, but not enough inputs.

I thought about using a new dual-gig as a sort of mixer when I'm in one of these crazy projects. I experimented a bit in DP setting up just aux tracks and using plugs in them I got 12 channels or 4band parametric and 12 chanls of bomb factory compressor before the cpu reached the peak. I thought about trying the same thing in Nuendo but not sure if it could do this mixer-only mode.
Do you think the audio suffers any in DP if used this way? I was even considering the discontinued but cheaper PARIS because of this need, but thought maybe DP and the a new Mac will do.

Sorry for the many initial questions, but Alpha I know you're a DP guy with a dual-gig so you b just the man to start the discussion and help me clear some stuff. Thanks.
Old 11th September 2002
  #2
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

well i run @ 35 tracks by the end of the session but i cant say i have TONS of punches [i make em play it right]... i do have fragmented tracks though, especially VOX where i clip between passages, there are a few edits [but you can always merge soundbites if needed]

i just threw away a list of one of my last mixes but i was running like 11 PSP VW's, 9 PSP Mixpressors, a few renEQ's, 5 supertaps, 3 autopans, a deep phase 9, a multimode filter [sounds better than bombfactories lpfilter], AND altiverb in mono>stereo.

all that ran @ 80% main, 70% secondary processor.

i could probably run more tracks. i get those track counts on DMA drives. im hooking my SCSI 10k drives back up though once i get an ATTO card for it [the G4's killed my Adaptec card in compatability] i would imagine the punchin and non-continuous tracks would be more prone to HD seek times than computer processing since my 9600 ran higher track counts fine with the SCSI drives.
Old 11th September 2002
  #3
Gear maniac
 

Mix with my new dual 1-Ghz (classic dual gig like Alpha-Pimp, yet not the blow-hole, that one, well...blows. It is a NOISY box, is the same processor cip yet just overclocks, the new RAM costs MORE - it HATES 9.2.2, really wants to use OSX (it doesnt ship hard install disc of 9.2.2 anymore either, **** that)

anyways - I mix a full lenght album on one in less than 2 weeks, the cool thing is my last mix was very self pleasing, and it was on a Powerbook G3 500mhz - so I am expecting adding the dual-1ghz to my network will take my mixes to the next level...

i want to put the made with a mac logo on a t-shirt asap! I wasn't made with one, yet everything I do is

I say at least do the apple-care loan, find a student to "lease it" for you since they will get an educators discount and a much lower APR rate. The mac will "technically" be theres, meaning you can pay them about $2400 to rent time on it forever

rock out with your dual gig out!
Old 12th September 2002
  #4
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Thumbs up here's my dual gig stats

i just recently purchased a quicksilver dual gig and have been testing it's performance...using 1 gig of ram, DP3.02 w/ 2408, reason 2.0 and dual internal cuda drives.

with 30 audio tracks( 24 stereo, 6 mono- all with edits), reason running with a large rack of stuff and buffer at 256: 30/4band motu EQ's/30 MW comps and 5 waves trueverbs( or 2 KOL Realverbs).

with the buffer at 1024(where i usually have it) i could get all of the EQ's and comps plus 11 trueverbs( or 3 realverbs).

the audio playback capacity was never above 50% so i could have added many more audio tracks.

quite a large jump from my beige g3 233heh

here's a recent desktop...
Attached Thumbnails
Mac dual-gig real-world power-picture-4.jpeg  
Old 12th September 2002
  #5
bleen
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Cool that you can eke out so much power, but I'm curious why you need so many reverbs?
Old 12th September 2002
  #6
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I'm using a full bore dual 800 and love it. Damn! DP3 is the way to go IMO. I'm wondering when I should upgrade my computer and take the Dual 800 home. I'm thinking it'll be the next generation Macs. It seems that the new ones are simply overclocked 800s plus a few upgrades. Any speculation when the next big jump will be?
Old 12th September 2002
  #7
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Talking new car syndrome

just seeing what it was capable of...felt like a 16 year old in a hemi-cuda.

the reality is i'll probably never use more than 2 verbs and a few EQ's.
Old 12th September 2002
  #8
bleen
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Re: new car syndrome

Quote:
Originally posted by 3rdpath
just seeing what it was capable of...felt like a 16 year old in a hemi-cuda.

the reality is i'll probably never use more than 2 verbs and a few EQ's.
Got it! I was just trying to imagine the cloudy, swimming insanity of all those different 'verbs. Hey, it just might work for something!
Old 12th September 2002
  #9
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No ****! I use Altiverb for the long 'verbs and the Waves for some short sizzle. Anything after that would be a "special effect"
Old 12th September 2002
  #10
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
Damn! DP3 is the way to go IMO.
yeah man - I am slowly turning people into believers, using the analogy of the player not the guitar - yet the MOTU system is the GTR you can swap out pickups in

Can't wait for the 2408mk3 - will let me take in alot more mix work, from whaterver MDM or HD recorder, or **** even the few Radar's that are around.

I also played around on a Logic control - and although there were some corners cut, like the plastic of the box - the fader are more than adequare for someone who normally does their automation w/ a mouse. and the main buttons are really all I want, just to let the producer feel good by being able to be the tape op if he feels need be dfegad

rock out
Old 12th September 2002
  #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fibes
I'm using a full bore dual 800 and love it. Damn! DP3 is the way to go IMO. I'm wondering when I should upgrade my computer and take the Dual 800 home. I'm thinking it'll be the next generation Macs. It seems that the new ones are simply overclocked 800s plus a few upgrades. Any speculation when the next big jump will be?
Macuser have given the new Dual's a 4 out of 5. But say basically that it's disappointing and unimpressive compared to the single processor. They focus mainly on stuff like speed though for their Photoshop/art readers.

Hmm..I'm considering waiting for the next Mac now probably a G5. I've read it won't be 'til spring 03. Also read that the Apple Jan 03 deadline on OS9 suggests that that will be the time. Jan 03 would be nice, it's not too long.
Spring though is too long to wait.
Old 13th September 2002
  #12
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well photoshop test and so forth are quite useless to US audio people. photoshop is a pissass app compared to what it takes to do real time audio.... or even real time video work.

i have been using photoshop since its inception. speed has never been an issue until you get over 15MB images THEN... now its not an issue at all. i remember when we had to use a paintbox system that made the macs at the time seem very silly and underpowered while working on 200mb+ images.

the dual's just plain SMOKE the singles. i wouldnt even bother with a single processor now. especially using DP.
Old 13th September 2002
  #13


Treat my rig to a second hand G4, but dual or single???

I will wait to see after AES where Mix + gets to with OSX and Dual Proccessors - if anywhere at all.....
Old 13th September 2002
  #14
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules


Treat my rig to a second hand G4, but dual or single???

I will wait to see after AES where Mix + gets to with OSX and Dual Proccessors - if anywhere at all.....


Jules, if you go 2nd hand - check out www.smalldog.com - they are the best apple people I've delt with, got me a quicksilver dual gig really cheap - they said "demo" as far as I can tell it wasnt touched

tell them I sent you
Old 14th September 2002
  #15
modmusic
Guest
40 tracks and 50 plugs is the max for a G4 Dp 500 using 2 reverbs on the Powercore and the rest is Waves and Dp plugs. About 6 Waves EQs and 10 Dp EQ's a Masterworks Comp, and about 10 regular DP compressors and 1 or 2 C-1's, also use a couple of the Powercore plugs besides the verb like the Voice strip and CL comp. This is at about 90% on both processors. Can't imagine what the new Dual gig would be like.

pat
mmm
Old 14th September 2002
  #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by modmusic
Can't imagine what the new Dual gig would be like.

pat
mmm
the new dual gig is gonna perform basically the same as old dual gig... the single FSB will negate any pluses from the DDR ram( at least the tests i saw showed this...and NO they weren't the barefeats tests-they were identically set-up systems). also, the new duals have less cache if i remember correctly which on some audio tasks actually made them a little slower.

i'm not a mac guru by any means, but the tests i saw were done( and explained to me...) by a mac guru.

not to mention the new dual is LOUD.( but i think the case is nicer looking)
Old 16th September 2002
  #17
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I thought about a dual-gig upgrade, and for about a thousand bucks seemed like a good deal, until I found out I have one of the early G4 AGP that cannot be upgraded to duals.
Well, your posts did show the dual-gigs as extremely capable machines. My guess is the Leoni Athlon machine (which I don't know a whole lottabout) is probably faster. BUT, with DP and the elegance of the Mac (and reliability), I'd still stay with Apple for my main app (gotta have Gigastudio though).

My wife tells me to consider a laptop instead. Too bad they don't have dual cpus for the powerbooks.
Old 17th September 2002
  #18
modmusic
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Well I thought by my readings that there is a 3MB cache in the dual 1.25 gig and all of the machines use the new dual ram setup (why that is negated in your post I don't understand...) The PCI bus on all of them handle a larger load and the ATA buss actually handles ATA 100 at a 100 throughput (the old ones handle only ATA 66 and up at a 66 throughput) The PCI bus advance is a good thing for those of us who use the Powercore and UAD type cards because there is more of a strain put on the bus from those cards (especially if you are using SCSI or RAID on that buss too plus a Motu card) Add to that the ability to have up to 2 gigs of RAM and up to 4 hard drives without a card and that looks pretty sweet. I am coming from using a G4 dual 500 so its a pretty big jump to me. I will wait till all of my apps go to OSX first though. I can wait a few more months and by that time prices should be going down on these models.

pat
mmm
Old 20th September 2002
  #19
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For the price of a dual-gig, you can get TWO Powercore cards and a UAD. Wouldn't this be a better option?
Old 21st September 2002
  #20
modmusic
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Where would you put them? You only have 3 slots available. Minus one for your audio card.

pat
mmm
Old 21st September 2002
  #21
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For you Mac guys who have yet to check out the UAD-1, you really do owe it to yourself to do so. I don't think I know of anyone who hasn't been somewhere between impressed and blown away by it once they used it for a bit.

And for you MOTU types, MAS drivers with dual CPU support just released. Along with the existing VST Mac and VST Windows drivers.

Mulitple UAD card support should be along in a matter of weeks now.

These really are the best sounding plugins, especially the LA2, 1176 and Pultec, that I've heard anywhere on any platform. Many people I know agree. Fat and warm. So unplugin-ish.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 21st September 2002
  #22
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT

Mulitple UAD card support should be along in a matter of weeks now.

Regards,
Brian T
My guess is, it's for the PC with MAS multicard support announcement to follow...rollz

Actually, the fact that they released multiprocessor support really put them on my map, really showed me they're serious in supporting the Mac. Thing is, from what other users have said, my 350MHZ just isn't going to cut it for serious mixing...which is okay for now I guess, but it doesn't solve the upgrade dilemma.

Brian, since you're nice enough to chime in here, a real simple (dumb) Paris question...is there rubber-band type option for automation? I couldn't find it in the manual I downloaded.
Also, when multicard UAD comes...would it be good enough for you that you can let your Paris rig go (say...Nuendo with the PCIxpansion chassis FILLED with UADs!)

I like DP very much...mostly because I take in all kinds of work to bring in bread and water. Albums to post...I'm scoring a tv soap (along with some commercial jingles) and the quicktime video setup is just too cool for me to switch apps, as well as absolutely not having any time to learn a new UI. Anyway, if UA can get their Mac drivers going and perhaps a team-up with TC so as they can really get Powercore to work seamlessly...well, it'll solve all my problems. I'm trying so hard to hold out with my current setup.

Oh and pat, one solution would be to use a Firewire interface. I already took out my 2408mkII and put it in my PC for Gigastudio, and could do the same with my Oasys. That'll leave me 3 open PCI...4 if I buy the new ones.
Old 26th September 2002
  #23
modmusic
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Or you could buy a new Dual Gig Mac with 4 open slots plus the video card which I just did. I loaded it with 3 120 gig ATA 100 drives. No worries here. Also I just read a post from my friend Tim who got the UAD and wasn't blown away by the LA2A plug. I personally like Real Verb quite alot and Tim said the 1176LN was cool.

pat
mmm
Old 27th September 2002
  #24
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You upgraded eh? Cool. I need to make a decision in the next two weeks, since I'll be flying to Japan for a week. I might end up spending all my money there on little electronic gadgets that I won't need if I don't decide soon. Last time I was there I did notice that the Yamahas and Rolands were a bit cheaper (not much) than in the US, and a heck of a LOT cheaper than here in the Phil. So I might get tempted with getting another AW...probably not since I've been doing some scoring and DP is just too cool not to upgrade the power (and with 3.1 supposedly next week then it's the way to go).

Really, if only there were dual-cpu laptops it would be a no-brainer. Let me know when you get a UAD pat (you know you NEED it)

Raul
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