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is digital technology mature yet?
Old 6th September 2002
  #1
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

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is digital technology mature yet?

the MAIN reason i have held out and not gotten protools is because i felt that digital technology has been getting better and better at an alarming rate. so much so that i refused to heavily buy into digital technology since it really inst worth jack once the latest and greatest comes out. its why i LOVE the MOTU system. works rather well [with some workarounds with an analog board for cue sends while tracking], and fairly cheap [$600 for the app, $1400 for their best convertors and 12 channels of them... i kinda dig them considering the price. i dont claim them to be the BEST convertors, but they are rather musical]

so has PT192 topped out their upgrade run? how much higher can you go with the system? or should i say will this system become obsolete?

up until now, i have simply upgraded my machine and my software... i havent had to deal with the semi frequent hardware upgrades of PT users nor the cost of having ot do so.

now with jules rumouring of a new procontrol [hopefully less plastic and more beefy], sample rates topping out, DSP i would assume in spades, an upgraded signal path keeping the 48 bits until the 2buss [or 5.1buss]... and altiverb available for PT users, so you think this HD system will be a system that will be around for a long while?

what else can they resell you on? i would imagine if you need more DSP you could simply just add more and more cards...
Old 6th September 2002
  #2
"so you think this HD system will be a system that will be around for a long while?"

I think because everything else (native / Fairlight) will progress in such an slow, painful, haphazard and incremental fashion, PT will stand victorious for the next 2-3 years by simply "working".

Add world unrest / recession to the mix and opt for the safest - WORKING system you feel your business can sustain LONG TERM.

Statement: Alpha - 96k MOTU operation with the Mackie controller should see you through DAW wars (and any world wars) for the next 3 year period IMHO....Especially if you latch a Hedd 192 as a front end. (ok Spider if you get a windfall but be careful with your $$$)

Me? I really dont know if my oddball demo-master recording business 'deserves' an upgrade right now... (I am doing A LOT of spec work, and that means no $$$) But I am ITCHING to go up to 96k operation with PTHD.

I have a separate PT Mix + rig that goes out on hire, when revenue on that starts to diminish due to everybody using HD, it's time for a serious re-think for Jules.

Untill then, watch wait and listen.

I am very into an 'all in one' system

Midi
Audio
Control surface
High Sample rates
Surround capability

Looks like PT & MOTU each have that covered!

Old 6th September 2002
  #3
modmusic
Guest
The thing that is blowing my mind is the possibilities of

The new G4s (including dual 1.25 gig and an even faster PCI bus - 4 slots thank you! - and the new ddr-ram)

OSX - specifically Jaguar with a latency measured in samples!

Dp3.1 and the new 2408

The cool new outboard cards from TC Works and UAD

Together this combination is just too deadly to even think about. I am running the TC card with a dual 500 G4 and OS9.2.2 (obviously) and I had a mix recently with 40+ tracks and over 50 plug ins! Hell yeah!

pat
mmm
Old 6th September 2002
  #4
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im asking not about 2-3 years. thats not a long time... im talking 10 years.

and in nativeland.... things have been progressing at a breakneck pace.
Old 6th September 2002
  #5
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Personally I am not a DAW fan so I may not be a good one to comment . . . I will tell you what Bobby Nathan at Unique once said during a conversation. To paraphrase . . . . "everything is changing so frequently in digital and computer based gear that I never buy any of it . . ONLY lease it, so when there are upgrades, which there are many . . . I just upgrade the lease." . . . . I think he has a VERY valid point.

Lease it if you like it and go back, upgrade your leases and get the upgraded hardware so you don't take such a loss. I have a friend that owns Southern Tracks in Atlanta . . . he bought a Sony 48 track digital a couple of years ago (you can imagine how much that cost) . . . he says it is not worth a very SMALL percentage of the original investment. One of the reasons he hates investing in any digital format as it is changing so fast and what is now current is obviously outdated soon and useless.

Sadly, I have a friend that is selling a gorgeous hammond B3 and matching leslie to buy the new Digidesign 002 system. I hate to see him do it as the hammond will continue going up in value where the 002 will be worth $150 dollars in a couple of years
Old 6th September 2002
  #6
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Thread Starter
that is what im asking... has the upgrade path hit its ceiling?
Old 6th September 2002
  #7
"Im asking not about 2-3 years. thats not a long time... im talking 10 years."

Silly question to ask IMHO - because of emerging tech. The best you can do is go for a 3 year working projection with DAW's at present IMHO.

"and in nativeland.... things have been progressing at a breakneck pace."

Not for the WHOLE WORKING PACKAGE for a pro. Logic OSX for example is useless to friends of mine who are pro midi / DAW jockeys. Folks need IT ALL working well - to make a living with this ****. MOTU PT & LOGIC pro systems look to be stuck where they are at now for a year or so at least.

Hobbyists / curious dweebs can tinker with the latest as it dribbles out of R&D depts gradually...

But working pro's like you Alpha, need this **** to be fully functional out of the box.

Guessing what to go for in THAT respect is the main target I have an eye on.

nothing in sight past PTHD for me just at the moment....

For you I imagine Motu 96k I dunno?

Your thoughts?
Old 6th September 2002
  #8
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Thread Starter
well, MOTU with its cuemix DSP basically turns it into a digital mixer/recorder while tracking... but it still leaves a lot to be desired for tracking.

some things technology wise i see for the future is convolution to be better utilized. i think it might possibly be a better form of processing than the typical algorithmic processing currently used... so i could see the mass amount of power it requires making even PTHD dsp obsolete.


i have [and am obviously still] avoiding large digital purchases. i cant imagine buying into it when it loses it FULL value so quickly. fortunately this has allowed me to solely focus on the analog front end making it as good as possible. and i feel that ALL my purchases are fairly "stable" in terms of long term use. in fact ALL of my purchases in the last 2 years have all increased in value [opposed to digital purchases which have all gone down]


OSX on the other hand is at LEAST a year away from "pro" use. i dont have aspirations otherwise.... although a lot of what OSX promises will seem to deliver in the long run with audio units [hopefully a plugin standard to rid us of "shells"]

latency is still going to be an issue and until they fully tackle it with automatic plugin delay compensation [that INCLUDES ALL PLUGINS... even though nuendo claims to do it, they dont on plugins that have variable latency such as PSP], then headaches will continue for us users.
Old 6th September 2002
  #9
"latency is still going to be an issue and until they fully tackle it with automatic plugin delay compensation"

I think it's only DAW user that give a sh!t about this (plug in latency), not the manufacturers.

Sadly.....
Old 7th September 2002
  #10
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My guideline to digital gear is how quickly it will pay for itself. If it takes more than six months, I pass.

As I pissed off PC Logic user, I'm at least happy that 5.2 (the final release for windows) is stable and has many of the features that I've been waiting for. Also, with emagic dumping VSTgrudge, I'd probably stop with 5.2 because I've grown quite attached to the UAD card and my VST instruments.

The plugin compensation with Logic has become much better.

I'm not planning to change for at least a couple of years.
Old 7th September 2002
  #11
'the new digital gloom'

Yes I can dig it

Perhaps it can be said we are not looking for upgrades but the best we can 'stick with'. I feel the AES will reveal a lot of audiofile / sound quality DAW stuff NOT happening...

Old 7th September 2002
  #12
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Re: 'the new digital gloom'

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Yes I can dig it

Perhaps it can be said we are not looking for upgrades but the best we can 'stick with'. I feel the AES will reveal a lot of audiofile / sound quality DAW stuff NOT happening...


Let us pray to the almighty Slut that you're wrong.
Old 7th September 2002
  #13
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

The studio owner I'm helping in a month or so is getting the PT192 along
with scouting for a nice 2" reel to reel. THAT will be exciting for me once they
both arrive! (guess who'll be learning to maintain the 2", heh heh)

Chris

P.S. Is latency the "hiss" of today?
Old 7th September 2002
  #14
No, plug in latency is the new black.
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