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Third Eye Blind 1st album gtr tones?
Old 29th December 2006
  #1
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Blast9's Avatar
Third Eye Blind 1st album gtr tones?

Anyone know what gtrs/amps were used?

I love the layered sparkly/chimey semi-dirty gtrs, especially on Losing a whole year, Burning man and Semi-charmed life.

---

Better still, anyone know Eric Valentine or the band?
Old 30th December 2006
  #2
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Amazing guitar tones, really clever parts, great songwriting...love that record.
I had an article, probably Guitar Player, that detailed his setup for the second
record. Vox AC-30's, Mesa Boogie Maverick (el-84 tubes), Marshall JMP head, etc.
Lots of delay. Totally under-rated guitar player (Kevin Cadogan). I think a lot
of bands that came after them borrowed a lot of his style. I love Eric Valentine's
work, too.
Old 30th December 2006
  #3
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It's funny how things come and go around in circles. I used to feel that England was always ahead of the game in musical taste but now I think you are behind the curve. Whenever I talk to people from the UK there musical taste seems to be off from what we're doing in Cali. At any rate, Third Eye Blind's first album is a masterpiece both sonically and musically. There was a huge article in guitar magazine about how they got there guitar tones after the album came out. I have some friends that engineer at Skywalker so maybel I'll ask next time I talk to them. I couldn't find the article on the web...

bcgood
Old 30th December 2006
  #4
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Blast9's Avatar
LOL.. I'm so behind it ain't funny. I often stumble upon older stuff in a random manner.

I'm so anti-trend its not funny heh

Can't move for new US bands over here... they're plastered all over our trendy press.

Thanks for the info so far... wonder if I can track down that GP article

***

In fact this is maybe what you're referring to, although its just info about tunings --- Its from http://www.myspace.com/kevincadogan

Cool stuff!

Last edited by Blast9; 30th December 2006 at 01:18 AM.. Reason: Found it
Old 30th December 2006
  #5
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PS This is lifted from his website --- http://www.kevincadogan.com/articles.html


"Graduate Class" Guitar World, November 1998

"It's rock with contradictions," laughs guitarist Kevin Cadogan as he attempts to describe Third Eye Blind's eclectic songwriting style. "I've always been into music that's aggressive or melancholic, sot he parts I play may start off being moody and introspective, but eventually become energetic or even angry," he states. "We write to express the moods we're in and our influences are also reflected in what we do."

However you decide to label 3EB's diverse music, one thing is certain: it's incredibly popular. The band's self-titled debut album has spent well over a year on the Billboard Top 100 chart and, in so doing, has sold in excess of a million copies and spawned several hit singles. Third Eye Blind's success has also led to their touring with the Rolling Stones and U2. The latter stint was particularly meaningful to Kevin, as U2 guitarist The Edge is one of his biggest influences. "It was amazing, almost surreal," he recalls. "U2 even invited us on their jet to fly to a gig in San Antonio. To say goodbye to them and the Rolling Stones was a tough thing to do. They're both hard to give up...kinda like crack!" [laughs]

TONAL LANDSCAPING
"Kevin tends to form a landscape with his playing," states 3EB's charismatic front-man, Stephan Jenkins. To maximize his tonal terrain on Third Eye Blind, Cadogan experimented with a large number of guitar and amp combinations in the studio and often layered several different parts. "On 'The Background' there are at least 16 tracks of guitar!" he exclaims. One of his favorite landscaping tools is an old Gibson RD Artist. "I love that guitar," says Kevin. "It's one I'll probably use a lot for recording in the future. It's a hard instrument to work with live, though, because it's so tonally extreme but it's great for doubling a part in the studio. I did a lot of tracks on the album with [Music Man] Sabre guitars, which have really fat and bass-heavy tone. Adding the RD on top for certain parts really made things stand out, because it's so shrill and sparkly sounding."

Third Eye Blind's breakthrough hit single, "Semi-Charmed Life," is a good example of the band's creative tonal coloring in the studio. The thick, multi-layered guitar textures were crafted with the help of an Epiphone Casino, a 12-string Hamer electric, a Gibson J-200 acoustic and a Gretsch Country Gentleman. The assortment of amps on this song is equally diverse: a Matchless 30 into a Mesa/Boogie 4x12 cabinet, a Mesa/Boogie Heartbreaker head, a Vox AC30 and a '69 Marshall plexi Super Lead head into a Marshall 4x12 loaded with 25-watt Greenback speakers. Reverb, wah-wah, tremolo and flange are also employed tastefully in places to add extra texture and sonic diversity.

LESS IS MORE
"My effects set-up is fairly simple and streamlined compared to what some players, like The Edge, use," says Kevin. "Right now, all I'm using is a Morley switchless Wah, a Dunlop Rotovibe and two Boss GX-700 rack unites that give me a little bit of compression, a touch of delay and a little splash of reverb on certain things." He recalls, "I went through a phase when I went totally overboard on effects and my creativity suffered as a result. I was spending all my time trying to find the best-sounding patch out of the 300 choices I had in my rack...basically, I'd stopped being a musician and had become an engineer! [laughs] At some point you have to switch the effects off and concentrate on coming up with cool-sounding chord sequences and voicings that will serve as good platforms for your singer to construct melodies on."
Old 30th December 2006
  #6
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Tibbon's Avatar
The Gibson RD's are pretty sweet and with them and a matchless and an AC-30 and a marshall you can rip off many of their tones pretty well. We had such a setup at the studio i used to be at. Kevin also had an MJ Engineering guitar made at one point I think. Don't know how much it was used, but they are nice guitars too (super playable).
Old 30th December 2006
  #7
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GregP's Avatar
 

And yet, all the publicity shots would have you believe that he used PRS guitars almost exclusively. Cool to know otherwise.

Greg
Old 9th January 2008
  #8
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I took a road trip the other day and threw in the Third Eye Blind "Third Eye Blind" cd. I listened to it twice through. I have to say the songwriting, production, and recording is F*cking amazing. It's nice to hear drums that don't sound like the same damn sample over and over again. The guitar sounds and layering is awesome. The vocals have a raw energy to them. The mix is just fantastic. Does anybody have any background(vocal mics, guitar mics, etc) info about this album. I have to say that it is in my top 3 best sounding albums of all time and I am curious to learn more about it.

Thanks
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Old 9th January 2008
  #9
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SIMS Audio's Avatar
 

That album has always been a guilty pleasure of mine!
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Old 9th January 2008
  #10
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Best album of the 1990s, IMO.
Old 9th January 2008
  #11
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dillweed's Avatar
Y'up.
My Favorite rock album.
Love the tones, production, and Mixes.
Old 9th January 2008
  #12
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Every time I listen to that CD I think about the state of the music industry. The sad thing is that I don't see any new band getting a chance to record a higher budget album of that quality. With new band budgets being razor thin, and with strict time constraints (from what I am told) I don't foresee any new band to come out of nowhere with an album(sound quality wise) like that. Yes, I know that that most of it has to do with the bands talent, but there is something to be said for having a great producer, an excellent engineer, and the time to create an album of that caliber. You can sample everything until the cows come home, and you still won't be able to create an album that has the feeling, like that album has. ~Just my two cents
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Old 10th January 2008
  #13
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindbend View Post
Every time I listen to that CD I think about the state of the music industry. The sad thing is that I don't see any new band getting a chance to record a higher budget album of that quality. With new band budgets being razor thin, and with strict time constraints (from what I am told) I don't foresee any new band to come out of nowhere with an album(sound quality wise) like that. Yes, I know that that most of it has to do with the bands talent, but there is something to be said for having a great producer, an excellent engineer, and the time to create an album of that caliber. You can sample everything until the cows come home, and you still won't be able to create an album that has the feeling, like that album has. ~Just my two cents
Awesome album, one of my favorites from the 90's.
Old 10th January 2008
  #14
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Blast9's Avatar
Wow this thread has reappeared!

Gibson RD is such a weird looking guitar!

Anyways... The album has similar production values and musical style on the 2nd Splender album "to who it may concern" Mixed by Mike Shipley I believe. Awesome bass tones on that one.
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Third Eye Blind 1st album gtr tones?-gibbo-rd.jpg  
Old 10th January 2008
  #15
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Blast 9-

Quote:
Gibson RD is such a weird looking guitar!
I had one when I was a kid. Really, really heavy, really hard to play. Hated it.

I always thought it looked like a melted Firebird.
Old 10th January 2008
  #16
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I think the got better with each release, both on studio production and songwriting. Their third album, Out of the Vein, was jawdropping to me. The track crystal baller had this kick ass arpegiated guitar intro where each string was panned separately. Totally awesome.

I saw them play in Richmond a month or two ago and it was equally kick ass...
Old 10th January 2008
  #17
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Blast9's Avatar
So who's on gtr nowadays?
Old 10th January 2008
  #18
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

When I first heard that record I got really excited. I thought it was going to raise the bar for the production and creativity of major (pop/rock) releases. I love that record!

Thanks to everyone involved for the enjoyment I have received as a listener.
Old 10th January 2008
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIMS Audio View Post
That album has always been a guilty pleasure of mine!
mine too, for years...
Old 10th January 2008
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tidalbomb View Post
The track crystal baller had this kick ass arpegiated guitar intro where each string was panned separately.
Wow. I didn't like the band before, and hearing stuff like this makes me find them even more disgusting. Nothing personal against everyone who likes TEB, but to me they're just another boring, overproduced band cranking out uninspiring recycled music.

Rick
Old 10th January 2008
  #21
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Couple things i remember reading/observing from the past but dont quote me on these:
I believe alot of Kevins press photos are done with the MJ Engineering guitar they look very similar to PRS from what ive seen....although im not 100% sure.

Also i remember reading an article where Kevin claimed alot of his sound is due to his use of weird tunings....most of those songs on that album the guitar are tuned to something other then the standard.

And right now the guitar player for 3eb is Tony Fredianelli

As for that album it is a very well written and recorded album as far as my standards go.

I dont know whos seen them live but i have about 4-5 times and they really do put on an amazing show as well.
Old 10th January 2008
  #22
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mindbend's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknroll View Post
Wow. I didn't like the band before, and hearing stuff like this makes me find them even more disgusting. Nothing personal against everyone who likes TEB, but to me they're just another boring, overproduced band cranking out uninspiring recycled music.

Rick
To each their own I guess... I found their first album to be very inspiring, and it takes me to another place.
Old 10th January 2008
  #23
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God, this makes me feel really in place all of the sudden. I grew up in the 90's, and still a kid, and this album I have always said to everyone is my most favoritely recorded album ever. I mean, I love the hole crystal clear sound it receives over the old sound of the Beatles, probably just a new generation kind of thing. It's what I was taught . But, I love the clarity and the punch the vocals have, the presence the guitars have, and the realism of the drums. It's just the more contemporary sound that Pro tools is supposed to achieve.

So, I have a question, does anyone know what kind of mics and such he used? Was it analog or digital? What converters did he use if it was digital? *Or was this before digital?* Favorite preamps for this type of mix?

I have never been able to find this stuff out, and I thought I was the lone soldier on gearslutz not looking for the tape sound the Beatles had, but the modern sound Third Eye Blind grasped.

Any leads would be super helpful.
Old 10th January 2008
  #24
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+1 on the 3eb bandwagon. I was known around my high school as a total 3eb junkie. I agree with most sentiments above...songs were excellent, all the players were outstanding musicians, etc.

I do wonder how much Stephen Jenkin's voice was autotuned...mostly because Kevin Cadogan (ex-guitarist) released a post-kicked-out solo CD that clearly advertised "no editing or tuning done on vocals". Seemed to me like a jab at Jenkins...

The new guitarist (i guess he's not that new anymore) is a solid player but I really loved the chemistry between Cadogan and Jenkins. It's especially evident on the 2nd album, "Blue" - compare the songs that they co-wrote (Wounded - awesome song; 1000 Julys, Darkness, Camoflage, Red Summer Sun) vs. the ones that Jenkins wrote by himself (10 Days Late, Never Let You Go, Farther, Darwin). Musically, they're at a different level.

My only complaint about 3eb albums - though not as much as the first one - is that they're mastered really hot and bright and can be fatiguing to listen to repeatedly.
Old 10th January 2008
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strat+ac30 View Post
I do wonder how much Stephen Jenkin's voice was autotuned...mostly because Kevin Cadogan (ex-guitarist) released a post-kicked-out solo CD that clearly advertised "no editing or tuning done on vocals". Seemed to me like a jab at Jenkins...
Yes... did you ever get to see 3EB live? It was scary...

I saw them during the rise of the first album and it was pretty sad. The band was very good and solid but his vocals were bad.

Saw them 2-3 years later when they did a big tour hitting all the arenas and, amazingly enough, everything sounded great hehheh

reguardless... still stands as THE record that propelled me into music as a player and a lover (of music).
Old 11th January 2008
  #26
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Blast9's Avatar
Damn - that album Out of the Vein is horribly distorted - bloated crunch on every kick drum.

Different guitarist, right?

This album is much more "down" than the 1st one which is bright n breezy - This must have been done during the fallout from Stefan's serious crystal meth problem.
Old 13th March 2008
  #27
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Anyone know what pres and mics were used for the gtr tones, especially on Semi-Charmed Life.
Old 13th March 2008
  #28
Gear Nut
 

"Motorcycle Drive By" is just a classic song..

the guitar playing and sounds on that album are top notch
Old 13th March 2008
  #29
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Semi Charmed TONE

...I share the love for that album. The songs are great...and the tone is killing (well done drums, too). I used to play GUITAR in a band (the drummer's brother was the lead singer, so no chance that I was playing drums in that group)...and we played "Semi Charmed Life". It always bugged me that our other guitar player had this ridiculously neutered Ensoniq multi effects processor that he ran through a Roland JC-120 with a Roland GR (midi guitar). His tone just sounded so overprocessed and stale...especially when that song called for gritty, wonderful overdriven British tone with a hint of Voxy Chime. I played a Les Paul Standard in stereo through a Digitech RP 10 running out to a 4 x 10 Hot Rod DeVille and a 5150 half stack...and I came pretty close to the tone.

I saw 3rd Eye Blind live on New Years Eve in Chicago...and they were SO BAD. His vocals were 3rd Rate. They obviously needed to employ a little auto tune live, as well. No wonder they fell off the face of the earth, too....sounds like their guitar play had a lot to do with those amazing songs. Thanks for the 411 on that guys...i am going to check him out!
Old 17th March 2011
  #30
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bladelaw's Avatar
 

Just wanted to resurrect this onld thread in the hopes that someone out there has the 411 on the studio gear.

I'm especially interested in how they got the growly, buoyant bass tone...
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