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What do you run your Midi stuff on?
Old 26th November 2002
  #1
Gear Head
 
kushan_ku's Avatar
 

What do you run your Midi stuff on?

Are you using PT's midi, or are you using another program, or possibly a second computer?

And why. Feel free to elaborate...
Old 26th November 2002
  #2
Two words for you...LOGIC AUDIO!!!!


Lately I've been porting over the sessions to PT HD and mixing it there. Sometimes I run both at the same time. I rarely start a midi production in PT(too limiting).

I've been using Logic since the Atari days(i also worked as rep for Emagic a while back). I totally love it, one of my most important production tools in the studio.
Old 27th November 2002
  #3
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kushan_ku's Avatar
 

thrill,
"porting over" ? do you mean PT will pull up a logic song, or are you bouncing over, what? And would you recommend Platinum, or could I get by with 5.0 'bigbox' (comes with some free software synths). And are you running on a separate system or the same box. elaborate...
Old 27th November 2002
  #4
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Renie's Avatar
 

Thrillfactor, and others of a similar mind in this respect,

Would you mind explaining why you prefer Logic to PT midi. I know Logic's so much more in depth and extensive, but what stops you from 'making do' with PT as you like working with audio in there? what are the essential missing 'production tool' elements in PT for you, for example, if you had to do an all-in PT midi/audio session in what way would your productivity/creativity get cramped or stopped?

I own Logic and moved to PT totally last year. I get along OK with the limitations. I miss the arpeggiator, delete doubles, groove quantize, and double time/half time thingy, but I found the depths of Logic intimidating.
I'm curious now if I'm missing out.

Also, do you think PT6OSX will level the playing field?

Thanks,
Old 27th November 2002
  #5
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kushan_ku's Avatar
 

Renie,
Part of my desire is to use my Ti notebook for a home/portable midi (and some audio) and then hook right up to the studio's HD3... I'd rather work all inside PT if I could but I need something alittle more mobile too...
Old 27th November 2002
  #6
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I use DP for midi. Actually I've been using MOTU since Perf v1. something on my Mac 512...

Heavy techno midi editing with lotsa controller data on PT is like purgatory. For electronica, I've so far started the projects on DP (under MAS) and recorded the synth tracks to it then imported the audio (after consolidation) in PT for major o/d's and mixing. I've never had much success running DP with DAE. For rock/pop projects I was getting by with PT's midi. (hardly most of the time!) I've been thinking of going to Logic lately, but I think I'll do like Kushan-Ku and get a Ti and set-it-up as a MOTU/Altiverb/softsynths-sampler station-agogo! Maybe install PT le (with a Digi01 and Baby Hui) on it too for an additional editing station.
Old 27th November 2002
  #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
I own Logic and moved to PT totally last year. I get along OK with the limitations. I miss the arpeggiator, delete doubles, groove quantize, and double time/half time thingy, but I found the depths of Logic intimidating.
I'm curious now if I'm missing out.

Also, do you think PT6OSX will level the playing field?

Thanks,

Groove quantise is in PT6.0 I think. (at least the new beat detective offers a function that will allow you to save groove templates extracted from audio and apply them to midi. Or was I dreaming at that demo in London.

Like Renie I'm completely satisfied with PT for midi. And from what I know from her I'm not half the midi programmer Renie is.
Old 27th November 2002
  #8
Quote:
Originally posted by kushan_ku
thrill,
"porting over" ? do you mean PT will pull up a logic song, or are you bouncing over, what? And would you recommend Platinum, or could I get by with 5.0 'bigbox' (comes with some free software synths). And are you running on a separate system or the same box. elaborate...
By porting over I mean sometimes its a standard midi file and consolidated audio(in Logic). Sometimes if i am running both, I just dump the midi to audio in PT, sometimes I don't.


If you will do anything serious, than yes go Platinum(the PT HD extension only works with Platinum). In a pinch the Big Box is fine(hey you got to do what you got to do).


Yes i run both on the same computer.
Old 27th November 2002
  #9
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With PT6.0 and OSX OMS is history too .... and combined with the new midi interfaces PT will finally offer rock steady midi timing. Rock steadier then AMT in Logic .... according to digi rep's of course and all that has to be seen ....
Old 27th November 2002
  #10
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrillfactor, and others of a similar mind in this respect,

Would you mind explaining why you prefer Logic to PT midi. I know Logic's so much more in depth and extensive, but what stops you from 'making do' with PT as you like working with audio in there? what are the essential missing 'production tool' elements in PT for you, for example, if you had to do an all-in PT midi/audio session in what way would your productivity/creativity get cramped or stopped?

I own Logic and moved to PT totally last year. I get along OK with the limitations. I miss the arpeggiator, delete doubles, groove quantize, and double time/half time thingy, but I found the depths of Logic intimidating.
I'm curious now if I'm missing out.

Also, do you think PT6OSX will level the playing field?

Thanks,
Hi Renie,

First of all as i mentioned earlier, since I was on board from its inception(when it was black and white) I have a personal almost symbiotic attachment to the program(Logic).

Over the years what's kept me attached to Logic, is the fact that it was made with the creative essence in mind. What I mean is most of its basic, take it for granted functions all work in real time(Quantization,transposition,segment loops, and many others). Working this way has always helped me hear my ideas as i thought them. I think what makes Logic so powerful is that you can work on the fly or adapt the program to your liking. PT was derived from Studio Vision/Master Tracks Pro and a lot of the basic functions are still as archaic, very rigid.

Yes over the years the learning curve for Logic grows steeper. If i hadn't started a long time ago, and was coming to program for the first time maybe I wouldn't be as enthusiastic. But like I said as the program evolved so did I.

Other programs have some better functions that I wish they would change:

1)The Arpeggiator in Cubase is to me much better. More variations and a lot more musical.

2)When Logic went to the Mac, one thing I missed was the way in the old version you could chain your song in segments for eg(verse,chorus,bridge) and you could see it on the main screen.
Yeah you can still do this, but its not as intuitive(especially if you still work in Studio Vision and believe it or not some people still do).

3) I think what turns a lot of people of to Logic is the enviroments pages(and i don't blame them). It is still a tricky page to navigate, much less explain.

Right now Logic is the only program that lets you run PTHD/DAE,ASIO and other audio hardware at the same time. You want TDM,MAS,VST,and logics own plugs(Bitcrusher is awesome), voila you got it.

Looking at the new features in PT6 the answer is no. They are still missing the boat. Remember PT was an audio program first and midi was added on after(the opposite of the others), so they will always be one step behind. And i think what also hurts them, and I am being controversial here...is the American mentality(I am American by the way) just do enough to get by and keep people off your backs. Here in the US we have never supported or encouraged the small foward music companies(EMU and ENSONIQ to name a few). Emagic is developed by Germans, there mentality to excellence is different(I work and mix their music all the time, so i know). They do not just do enough to get by, they strive for excellence. If there is a problem, new idea, or a need, they try it fix it,no excuses and it works(why do you think every month there is a new upgrade).

Food for thought.
Old 27th November 2002
  #11
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Sequencing: MPC 3000
Hui : Unitor
Sys Ex Dumps (haven't done these in forever) : StudioXTC... (I'll most likely use the unitor next time I do a sys ex dump)
Old 27th November 2002
  #12
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

I am not a keyboard player, but I love cubase for midi, we do all our programming in Cubase, then I just export as a midi file, and open in PT to record the parts to audio....


what is the deal with not being able to input transpose in PT for MIDI?
Old 29th November 2002
  #13
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dynamike's Avatar
i have only worked w/ midi in PT's.
i do get annoyed w/ it sometimes, but i don't know anything else. to someone who has never used any other program, is it (in your opinion) worth taking on the learning curve of Logic?
keep in mind that this is for my own music also, not just clients.
Old 29th November 2002
  #14
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kushan_ku's Avatar
 

thats what I'm trying to figure out dynamike, i've used many midi sequencers over the years but i've been using PT's since I came over to it several years ago.

now I want to do more midi-composing on the road with either my laptop Ti or possibly my MPC...so I'm trying to figure out what program to go with. I've heard wonderful things about DP too....

Or maybe I should put my HD in a roadcase and use PT with my Ti when I'm on the road or at home... hm..
Old 29th November 2002
  #15
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Thrillfactor,

Thanks for the reply.

I can see if you're accustomed to something useful- you miss it when it's not there. Logic, DP and Cubase all have bells and whistles PT doesn't.

Chris you're right Groove Quantize is on the way! Digi are slowly improving things.

Thrill I find it interesting what you say about the German and US mind set.
The striving for excellence of the German's- why doesn't Germany have a larger impact on the creative music world? Maybe the attitude of excellence and linearity is great in product development but misses something in music making the Americans have got - a bit more soul maybe.

Can you recommend some cool German music you know? I may be missing out on an upturn!

Interesting that Emagic have "Technology with Soul" as their logo/phrase- trying to shoehorn the concept in maybe? also because they have developed the product so much it is both wildly creative and also alienating for many- like rocket science. PT is much easier and limited!! Take your pick..or mix and match.

thanks
Old 29th November 2002
  #16
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrillfactor,

Thanks for the reply.

I can see if you're accustomed to something useful- you miss it when it's not there. Logic, DP and Cubase all have bells and whistles PT doesn't.

Chris you're right Groove Quantize is on the way! Digi are slowly improving things.

Thrill I find it interesting what you say about the German and US mind set.
The striving for excellence of the German's- why doesn't Germany have a larger impact on the creative music world? Maybe the attitude of excellence and linearity is great in product development but misses something in music making the Americans have got - a bit more soul maybe.

Can you recommend some cool German music you know? I may be missing out on an upturn!

Interesting that Emagic have "Technology with Soul" as their logo/phrase- trying to shoehorn the concept in maybe? also because they have developed the product so much it is both wildly creative and also alienating for many- like rocket science. PT is much easier and limited!! Take your pick..or mix and match.

thanks

Hey Renie I forgot two other functions that i couldn't live with out:

1) Demix by event channel- If anyone brings you a sequence done on a hardware sequencer(MPC,Triton/Trinity,Motiff etc), you can record the whole sequence on one track,select demix by event channel and voila...all the tracks are seperated. I know that some hardware sequencers can save as midi files, but the older ones can't.

2) Demix by note pitch- What if you did a drum track lets say from a roland unit. You want to change all the snare hits or lets say you want to double the kicks(4-5min long) on a korg. Now you want to record all the drums seperate how do you do it? In logic demix by note pitch splits up all the note pitches on seperate tracks, so that way you can mute seperate instruments(transpose,double, change velocity etc) real easily. This is a bitch to do in PT.

So back to your question about German music...

Well the same can be said about the Japanese. They did revolutionize the whole digital market(Yamaha DX7).

I can't really explain it but to say that even though we live in a global market, music has become more and more a regional thing. No where is it more shown than here in the states. Everything here is packaged,glossed, and setup for a certain few. Everything is marketed for a certain demographic. If you don't fit, man you are so lost!!!(Its funny a bunch of us 30 year olds were having this discussion yesterday!!! Can I say Logans Run anyone?). So the music business has become more and more specified.

Yeah we have the internet and you are in London and i am here in the states. We are communicating, but will that be enough for me to listen to your music? Or lets say music from Japan,Germany, Italy, Norway etc? The way things are setup its just too much trouble/hassle. For me(or anyone) to even go to a live show here in the US is a hassle. I am sure there is great music around the world(I know I work with a lot of international people), but even their own music is discouraged. Same scenarios, it has to sound a certain way(which basically means Anerican,that's why I get these gigs), the artist look a certain way...argh!!!!

I liked Kraftwerk growing up. I loved the whole Australian rock scene(my ex roomie was an Aussie), there were so many others things that I was exposed to, even though I had no internet(but we had early MTV).

I miss this!!! Does this make any sense?

Hey I guess whatever!!!

Back to our show.
Old 29th November 2002
  #17
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kushan_ku's Avatar
 

Are any folks running Logic or DP on a separate machine and syncing to PT ? so you have more processor / virtual synths, etc etc, and some mobility?

Anyone familiar with DP? Wonder if Charles will tell us what he usually works with ?
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