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God, Grant Me The Strength To Accept What I Cannot Change
Old 22nd November 2002
  #1
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
God, Grant Me The Strength To Accept What I Cannot Change

All of these analog vs. digital arguments have got me down lately.

I've been guilty of fanning the flames as much as anyone. But I have to draw the line when I see people who I like and respect going at one another.

We all love music. We love it and care about it so much, with such a passion, that we are willing to fight with each other over how it should be recorded.

But we all do what we gotta do.

Let's face it: There are factors beyond our control which guide, and sometimes dictate, our choices. Time factors. Economic pressures. Peer pressure. Industry standards, or lack thereof.

Then, there is the wildcard: Ethics.

The ethic of the recording engineer is: Do the source audio justice.

The "High-End" analog faction states: 2" analog tape recording is the ideal representation of the source audio.

The "Lo-Fi" DAW faction will counter with: If we don't record this stuff, it will NEVER be recorded, therefore our existence is essential: What good is ethics if the source audio is never recorded in the first place??

As such, our recording industry has been bisected, in effect. We have been divided against each other.

We need to find a Third Way. To recognize ALL recordings as equal, no matter which medium or which means utilized.

Every recording artist, engineer, producer...we all make decisions on a day-to-day basis regarding what to use to record and how, but not always based on factors totally within our control.

Here is how we find the strength to accept what we cannot change: The love of the music guides us. We know we can ALWAYS make do, and do justice to the source audio, no matter what we have to work with.

Just another late-night rant from The Curve...sorry to waste your time.
Old 22nd November 2002
  #2
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 

Quote:
God, Grant Me The Strength To Accept What I Cannot Change
better do a search on gods - you'll find there's are few better deals than that.
Quote:
All of these analog vs. digital arguments have got me down lately.
it's only sound................ **** it!!
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I've been guilty of fanning the flames as much as anyone. But I have to draw the line when I see people who I like and respect going at one another.
see 1.
Quote:
The ethic of the recording engineer is: Do the source audio justice.
No it's not Eric, I'm sorry to disagree with you on this . It's to make the band you hear in your head the same as the band on tape, and if you can enhance that experience YOU SHOULD.!! :D:D
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The "High-End" analog faction states: 2" analog tape recording is the ideal representation of the source audio
No it's not!! after going over and over the heads for three months there is **** all oxide left and all you got was a muffled memory of what you recorded.
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We need to find a Third Way. To recognize ALL recordings as equal, no matter which medium or which means utilized.
Totally correct mate - it's always been this way.
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Every recording artist, engineer, producer...we all make decisions on a day-to-day basis regarding what to use to record and how, but not always based on factors totally within our control.
Yup, that's the great unknown
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Just another late-night rant from The Curve...sorry to waste your time.
You didn't waste my time Curve cos you really made me think about those important things again.

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As such, our recording industry has been bisected, in effect. We have been divided against each other.
I don't think so - we all have the same ambitions, get rich.......... make music ............hopefully BOTH.

Cheers
John
Old 22nd November 2002
  #3
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Renie's Avatar
 

Re: God, Grant Me The Strength To Accept What I Cannot Change

Eric

What you can not change is the style in which people operate regardless of the subject. Audio recording is a red herring here. It sounds like you ideally want people to be respectful and of one mind. I agree with you in the wish that people behave honourably but I don't expect us all to agree, even to agree to disagree.

It's admirable to try to get a more fruitful style of exchange going, don't expect it work all the time though, it's not your responsibility to make every OK. Sweet that you try, but it could wear you out if your expectations are naive.

Some people work in music and don't love music anymore, maybe they never did. Music attracts all sorts.

What matters is that you love it. Pursue your own vision it will always be a personal one, some people will share elements of it many won't, it's always valid.

I think you are charming!
Old 23rd November 2002
  #4
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by John Sayers:
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The "High-End" analog faction states: 2" analog tape recording is the ideal representation of the source audio
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No it's not!! after going over and over the heads for three months there is **** all oxide left and all you got was a muffled memory of what you recorded.
Aaahhh...This is the phenomenon which our illustrious colleague Fletcher so eloquently refers to as "Beating the sh!t out of the tape."

I remember that.

In my pre-digital days (gone but sadly not forgotten), I once had the (dis)pleasure of (attempting to) produce a demo for a singer who ultimately just could not deliver the goods. I remember vividly that sinking feeling I would get in my stomach when, after 100 or so punches, the vocal tracks would begin to exhude that "warbly" sound, like it was turning into wrinkly Saran Wrap...that sound, it haunts me like Marlon Brando in Apacolypse Now.

The horror...
Old 23rd November 2002
  #5
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by Renie Coffey:
Eric

What you can not change is the style in which people operate regardless of the subject. Audio recording is a red herring here. It sounds like you ideally want people to be respectful and of one mind. I agree with you in the wish that people behave honourably but I don't expect us all to agree, even to agree to disagree.
Agreed.

Quote:
It's admirable to try to get a more fruitful style of exchange going, don't expect it work all the time though, it's not your responsibility to make every OK. Sweet that you try, but it could wear you out if your expectations are naive.
I don't expect much, actually, but I can't help throwing out the challenge once in awhile.

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Some people work in music and don't love music anymore, maybe they never did. Music attracts all sorts.
True, and this pisses me off sometimes.

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What matters is that you love it. Pursue your own vision it will always be a personal one, some people will share elements of it many won't, it's always valid.
True, thanks Renie.

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I think you are charming!
Aaawww!!!rollz

Did I mention I'm single??
Old 23rd November 2002
  #6
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Re: God, Grant Me The Strength To Accept What I Cannot Change

Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant

We need to find a Third Way. To recognize ALL recordings as equal, no matter which medium or which means utilized.
Eric,

I'll have to disagree, unfortunately, because I know you're not looking for more strife at the moment, but hoping to form an accord of peace. We don't need to find all recordings equal. Finding that 3rd Way would make some people happy because they could justify that their way doesn't suck. And if it does suck, while everyone pretends that it doesn't, we don't make any progress deciding as a whole what sounds good. I could go on, but it'd be nothing more than extolling upon that last sentence at length.
Old 24th November 2002
  #7
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Most artists/bands that we like so much were not really going for political correctness when writing their best lyrics anyway...
Old 24th November 2002
  #8
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by groundcontrol:
Most artists/bands that we like so much were not really going for political correctness when writing their best lyrics anyway...
GC,

If I want your opinion, I'll call your proctologist for your exam records.

grggt heh dfegad rollz
Old 24th November 2002
  #9
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Is that the lyrics to one of your songs?

That's a pretty funny line anyway!
Old 24th November 2002
  #10
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant
Aaahhh...This is the phenomenon which our illustrious colleague Fletcher so eloquently refers to as "Beating the sh!t out of the tape."

I remember that.

In my pre-digital days (gone but sadly not forgotten), I once had the (dis)pleasure of (attempting to) produce a demo for a singer who ultimately just could not deliver the goods. I remember vividly that sinking feeling I would get in my stomach when, after 100 or so punches, the vocal tracks would begin to exhude that "warbly" sound, like it was turning into wrinkly Saran Wrap...that sound, it haunts me like Marlon Brando in Apacolypse Now.

The horror...
Not to say you're exaggerating, but there is analog and there is analog.

With the old JH24 and 456/499 tape, yes -- I would lose some high end with repeated overdubbing. No warblies like you refer to, Eric, but hiss would increase and highs slightly decrease with overdub accumulation.

Since switching to the A820, I use and re-use and overdub ad infinitum to GP9 or 900 tape...no problems.

There are songs I've been working on intermittently over months and "beat the **** out of the tape"...no problems.

Oxide? Practically no tape shed after the first day or two on any particular reel. You'd probably have to run it for years to hear a difference.

Lest I sound like a Luddite, I've been working with Prism ADA converters lately (at 48kHz) and they sound great...much, much closer to the sound I'd like to hear from ProTools than anything else I've heard, including HD192s.

Transfers from 2" don't break my heart as much, with the Prisms in the chain.
Old 25th November 2002
  #11
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

tape shed.. everyone remember AFGA tape?.... You could actually sweep up oxide after a days session.. sounded great for a bit though..
Old 25th November 2002
  #12
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Yeah and only a couple years later the tapes started to get gooey as ****, great!
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