The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Seperation In Your Mix: How You Do It? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 16th November 2002
  #31
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

ALWAYS LISTEN IN MONO

apart from that

to get separation

i leave the studio
Old 16th November 2002
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by BevvyB:
ALWAYS LISTEN IN MONO
BevvyB,

BUT WHAT IF I DON'T WANNA LISTEN IN MONO??!!!

I HATE MONO!

Life is not in mono. Why should our mixes be in mono?

What am I missing with this mono thing? Please explain.
Old 16th November 2002
  #33
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Eric,

What I understood from what these mono-cyclops mixers are saying is that they find it easier to hear phase discrepancies and clashing timbres when mixing with (essentially) one ear.

I'm confused only because I haven't tried mixing in mono for the majority of a session.

I can see how the panning and balances would fall into place after the fact of working in mono for most of a mix. You eliminate the issues that would distrub these balances before you deal with them.

Very f-in cool!

Looking forward to scaring myself into a good mix.
Old 16th November 2002
  #34
no ssl yet
Guest
I often A/B with a selection of reference Cd's in mono. Also I listen to just the stereo signal of CDs minus the middle. (This is how I peep the ffx, delays and panning of store bought Cd's)
Old 17th November 2002
  #35
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant


BevvyB,

BUT WHAT IF I DON'T WANNA LISTEN IN MONO??!!!

I HATE MONO!

Life is not in mono. Why should our mixes be in mono?

What am I missing with this mono thing? Please explain.
Life may not be mono, but most of the recorded music you listen to, especially casual listening (like background music while you get on with your life) IS. In the car, FM stations will often collapse the stereo image as the signal gets weaker; when you're eating ina restaurant, working around the house, or even cleaning up in the control room, you're not sitting in the sweet spot so you're essentially listening to the recording in mono (even if the ambience from the room is giving you a 'faux stereo' feeling; and of course, many tv broadcasts come out of your sound system in mono, even if they leave the network as stereo. The radio in my kitchen as well as the clock-radio I used to have (until I ripped it out of the wall plug one morning) are mono.

If your mix has serious phase cancellation issues that you haven't noticed because you haven't checked it in mono, then funny things can happen when it gets to my kitchen rado - things like instruments completely disappearing, relative levels of instruments changing, the tone of instruments changing dramatically, of reverbs going away (or sometimes, the dry signal going away, leaving only the effects) - in other words, the mix you worked so hard on has been completely trashed when I hear it. And it would be completely your fault.
Old 17th November 2002
  #36
I dont do too much mono listening these days, however I DO do it if I get into the old vocal mid / gtr mid clash situation with wide panned distorted gtrs.

"Monoing up" and a re-start of eqing & compression can usually get me out of the sh!t. Once tonal balanced is achived between gtrs & vocals, it's back to stereo..

Speaking of mono, I regret forgetting to listen in mono while setting up a recent (2nd time I tried it) 3 mic 'Glyn Johns' drum mic technique I used last weekend..

I will remember next time..
Old 17th November 2002
  #37
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

Speaking of mono, I regret forgetting to listen in mono while setting up a recent (2nd time I tried it) 3 mic 'Glyn Johns' drum mic technique I used last weekend..
Glyn Johns, or recorderman?

Hard to tell where the various "equal distance", 2 or 3 mic techniques came from.

I'm sure it was a story passed down around a campfire with a peace pipe from years and years ago, but it's a fairly recent discovery around a lot of recording forums.
Old 17th November 2002
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by Dave Martin:
If your mix has serious phase cancellation issues that you haven't noticed because you haven't checked it in mono, then funny things can happen...

...the mix you worked so hard on has been completely trashed when I hear it. And it would be completely your fault.
Damn, Dave...you done scared me straight.

I think I'll go listen to my mixes in mono now, I'll catch up with yous a little later...
Old 17th November 2002
  #39
It's been going for years, thats just how I know it to be called back from being showed it by my engineering mentor Bob Potter back in 1984, (he had assisted Glyn Johns in the 70's who used it)

But full props to Recorderman & Fletcher for spreading the good word.

A long advocate of multi close micing, I've only just begun to expiriment with it...

Old 17th November 2002
  #40
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

not just mono, but single speaker mono.

thankfully lately, i have been getting really good collapse lately, everytime i check it, its the same sounds, same everything... except no spread.
Old 17th November 2002
  #41
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Damn. Now it's single speaker mono.

Is listening in mono on one speaker more effective than on two?

Why?
Old 17th November 2002
  #42
Lives for gear
 
doug_hti's Avatar
 

alphajerk, jules or whoever,
I've listened in mono quite often, but not out of one speaker (which happens to make loads of sense)...so basic question but curious if any phase issues...

Having the L/R signals come into my monitor mixer, can I just pan my left channel to the right with my real right channel...with the stereo summing on the mixer...is this the best way, or should I somehow do it in PT with the master fader?
Old 17th November 2002
  #43
Jax
Lives for gear
 

doug,

I'm not entirely sure either, but I would think the way to do it is with one mono master fader and just pan it to one side. Bit I'll wait for someone with more mono experience to chime in.
Old 17th November 2002
  #44
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i just pan one of my faders to the same side as the other. other times i just hit the mono fold...
Old 17th November 2002
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 

It is amazing how you can realy feel good about narrow stereo panning after setting up a mix in mono... it can really make you realize how unnatural you pan things without thinking about it. ( not that what we do needs to be in the least bit "natural")
Old 17th November 2002
  #46
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 

Having mixed a lot of TV soundtracks I always had a phase scope setup on the console. Wavelab 4 has one which is cool. Does PT have one??

All the older consoles used to have a mono switch on the monitor section AS WELL as a mute for each speaker so you could switch to one speaker only.

cheers
john
Old 18th November 2002
  #47
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Actually that's the one biggest grief I have against my ProControl. You can't mute each speaker selectively. It's too bad that Digi's other control surface (the one that keeps on breaking down every other month and was designed without regards to proven ergonomic science :eek: ) has this feature and not PC...
Old 18th November 2002
  #48
FX smörgåsbord user
 
Charles Dye's Avatar
 

I've got my homework cut out for me on this one. I'll be back once I've read all the posts on this thread. Just didn't want you to think I wasn't working on it.
Old 18th November 2002
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

I do a lot of mono checks while I'm mixing as well. However, I don't do it for "mono compatibility" reasons. I could care less about compatibility to some guy in Nebraska listening on a Kraco in his Monza. I do it for a fresh perspective. A lot of times I'll collapse to mono and I'll be like "what the hell? That sucks!" And I'll adjust accordingly.

Old 18th November 2002
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
Chae Ham's Avatar
 

mono

I definitely agree about listening in mono occasionally... This might sound strange but when I listen in mono I'll often find whether certain panning decisions were good or not, and re-adjust to taste... Its really helpful try it out!
Old 18th November 2002
  #51
Gear Maniac
 

I found out about one speaker mono a few years ago when I had to do a BUNCH of mono mixes for Cruise Ship shows. After a few days it was driving me crazy. Every time i moved my head I could hear comb filtering from the changing distance of the two speakers.

The Coleman Audio M3 has a mono button and L/R mute switches. Perfect for checking in mono.

As far as having something completely disappear from my mix, I don't think so. I hear out of phase stereo elements or speakers right away. It feels like bugs crawling around in my ears. I hate it.

To widen my stereo image I like to use stereo inputs on reverbs, delays, and chorus FX. It really helps to localize elements. Not all of the plugs work that way. The TC reverb and Chorus do. Lexiverb and Reverb One do not. Mondo Mod and SuperTap also have true stereo inputs.

I also use dual mono inserts on stereo elements. I never EQ the L and R of a stereo sound exactly the same. It gives a subtle spead that your ear will notice. It also causes a difference in phase shift, too, that widens the stereo spread.

STeve
Old 18th November 2002
  #52
Gear Head
 
John Sayers's Avatar
 

Quote:
I hear out of phase stereo elements or speakers right away. It feels like bugs crawling around in my ears. I hate it.
heh Ditto!!

cheers
JOhn
Old 18th November 2002
  #53
I sleep in mono.

Old 18th November 2002
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Ol' Betsey's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

Speaking of mono, I regret forgetting to listen in mono while setting up a recent (2nd time I tried it) 3 mic 'Glyn Johns' drum mic technique I used last weekend..
oh ****... ME TOO!
Old 19th November 2002
  #55
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
TOM CRAM IS HERE!!! YO TOM, WHAAAASSSSUUUPPPP???!!!!!!!

OK, I checked my mixes in mono.

I noticed that, on a few tracks, the bass guitar had slightly less presence than when listening in stereo. Understandable, since the bass is always in the middle, and so moving everything else to the middle crowds it out a little.

Hmmm. Not sure whether to be worried about that.

The mixes actually sound kinda cool in mono.

Wondering what the hell I was worried about...
Old 19th November 2002
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
As far as having something completely disappear from my mix, I don't think so.
Yeah man...What is up with that? I mean, what kind of mixing Judo trick is that where something will disappear in mono? Does one need to mix on an SSL for that to happen?rollz
Old 19th November 2002
  #57
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, let me know about that one, too. I like to frighten my clients into thinking they have to rerecord something, every now and then.

heh heh
Old 19th November 2002
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Yeah, let me know about that one, too. I like to frighten my clients into thinking they have to rerecord something, every now and then.




__________________
Jackson
Yo! I hope you're messin'. You better be messin'.
Old 19th November 2002
  #59
Gear Maniac
 
cram's Avatar
 

Hey Curve! how's it hangin'.

I've never had anything "disappear" when I collapsed to mono. I've had stuff sound wrong though. If you mind your p's and q's during the tracking stage, you should NEVER have a track so out of phase that it would disappear.

However, if you only mix, not track, who knows what level the tracking engineer is on. The only instance I can think of where I had serious problems when I collapsed to mono was when I used the wrong cables. I had some cables that were swapped pin 3 hot for some non-standard gear I had. I accidentally grabbed them for some drum tracking, oops. Luckily, I noticed some weird **** before we got too far into tracking and swapped out the cables.

Now my pin 3 cables are wrapped in orange tape.
Old 19th November 2002
  #60
Jax
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Curve Dominant

Yo! I hope you're messin'. You better be messin'.
Well, if they're already talking about doing a crappy sounding part again, no.. I don't make a track disappear. I might make it sound worse that it has to, though!
heh
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Red Dog / So much gear, so little time
10
jumpnyc / Post Production forum
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump