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Sheesh... I'm scared (HD)
Old 5th November 2002
  #1
Sheesh... I'm scared (HD)

Having just spoken to one of the main producers at the studio I'll be moving into and my "soon-to-be famous Pro Tools/programmer about-town" friend, I've decided to go HD... I THINK!

The scary part is that what started out as buying a used MixPlus for £3000 has, in true GEAR SLUT fashion, quickly moved into the terrifying realm of the £10,000 HD system!

Ok, let me clear my head and think about this properly.

But just to throw it out there...

How do you guys feel about the future-proofability of buying HD now? I like Pro Tools. Will be sticking with Pro Tools.

But is there any reason to hold back on this purchase (aside from financial ) at this particular moment in time?

R.





Old 5th November 2002
  #2
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Renie's Avatar
 

Hi Ol' Betsey

That's funny, I woke up this morning and decided my next purchase will be HD. It will be a little less pain for me due to the upgrade path from Mix Plus.

My caution will totally be around getting the system bought altogether; the G4 and the HD hardware will be coming to me tested thoroughly and working
fully. Have you read Jack's (Sly) Star Wars thread in the Mac forum here..I know of other people who have not got HD to work with approved G4's.

There doesn't appear to be much clarity yet about what the issues are and it appears that although it may be uncommon to have problems we are more likely to in Europe..

Other than that I think it's a wise choice if you like Pro Tools, which we both do.
Old 5th November 2002
  #3
I need a couple of Mix farms!

And a G4!

Old 5th November 2002
  #4
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

no reason to not get it...you'll probably get a solid 3-4 years out of it as opposed to a tie over system (which is still the industry standard) in which you may not be happy with, being that you just purchased it, for too much longer 1-2 yrs.
I analyzed this subject as well...whether I should get a used Mix system, a full blown Logic system, or HD...as far as compatibility, profitability, attractability(if that's even a word), and all the sonic and power qualities, as well as all the future upgrades...financially you can't go wrong with a HD system.
I also don't think the Mix system will have a resale value in two years, the HD system probably will.

As far as sound. I do a lot of interaction with another studio with a mix+++ system. They have better monitors and better control room acoustics compared to ours. However since I got HD, the same (48k) project sounds a lot more open (for lack of a better word) on my inferior room. I never complained about the sound of Mix systems (with 888s) until I heard HD (with a 192).

So my point as well as many others that I've read, is that if you plan on doing what you're doing 3-4 yrs down the road, chances are HD will take you there with the help of future G4/G5s...I don't think the Mix system can make that stretch...(which means the 3k pnds + the 10k pnds... plus all the plugin upgrades)...

good luck!
Old 5th November 2002
  #5
Re: Sheesh... I'm scared (HD)

In one word...NO!!!

Get HD, you won't regret it.

Its actually a disappointment to me when I freelance and I have to work on an older Mix system.grudge

Its funny now I really hear that old 2D sound of a Mixplus system. So many of the new plug ins are being made for it exclusively(if you plan on using plugs this is a big issue).

And on the computer thing, right now I am running an HD2 sytem on old 9600(I am getting a new dual 1 gig G4 soon). It works fine.

Long live the old 9600!!!


Quote:
Originally posted by Ol' Betsey
[B
But is there any reason to hold back on this purchase (aside from financial ) at this particular moment in time?

R.





[/B]
Old 5th November 2002
  #6
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Renie's Avatar
 

Thrillfactor,
But how much of the 'wow' factor with HD is the new convertors. I get confused when people don't seem to factor this in- I mean when comparing to a Mix system. I know the Digi convertor's are comparatively miles better to their old ones. What about Apogee + Mix compared to Digi 192 +HD?...


Cheers!
Old 5th November 2002
  #7
I need to hear reports from folks doing rock music at 96k on an HD rig..

Thats where it would be at for me, I would need LOTS of plug in power..


Old 5th November 2002
  #8
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrillfactor,
But how much of the 'wow' factor with HD is the new convertors. I get confused when people don't seem to factor this in- I mean when comparing to a Mix system. I know the Digi convertor's are comparatively miles better to their old ones. What about Apogee + Mix compared to Digi 192 +HD?...


Cheers!
Hi Renie,

That is a good question. For me the converter issue wasn't the biggest factor(with the mix system i used everything from CraneSong,Apogee,Mytek and Prism all excellent converters). When I mix I actually only monitor through the Hedd 192/Masterlink(no 192).

The biggest difference is...yes that famous topic...
The summing buss!!!

Maybe its the 48bit mixer or the TDM2 architecture, but there is a difference in the sound. Especially how the tracks gel together. For me this was the biggest deal since I mix a lot of songs which are at a minimum 64 tracks. Also on the old system, when you used the auxes it also changed the sound. Now its no more. Like I said, since Digi went to the 48bit mixer I see less and less complaints on the DUC. Even here, most of the people complaining are still using the old Mix systems.

There must be a correlation in there somewhere!!!
Old 5th November 2002
  #9
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Renie's Avatar
 

Thrillfactor,

Aha..that's good news!! Can't wait to hear for myself.

Thanks,
Old 6th November 2002
  #10
Gear Addict
 

What about mixes that don't span chips? Why should they sound better? I know they tweaked some of the headroom in the mix bus....but I have yet to hear a good reason why HD simply sounds better internally- nothing to do with the converters. I just finished comparing exact mixes on Nuendo, Logic, and Protools...I need to find an HD rig to throw this mix on for comparison.

If you have demand for HD, (from clients or your producer) then that is the biggest "go ahead" for HD I can think of. Here in my market there is not a demand for 96k yet....so MANY PT'ers are passing for now. Cost is an issue for many of them. For the amount of DSP used on a large mix rig, it takes some serious coin to get into an equivalent 96k rig.
Old 6th November 2002
  #11
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
posted by Thrillfactor:
since Digi went to the 48bit mixer I see less and less complaints on the DUC
This totally syncs with what I understand from conversations with Nika Aldrich.

When you record into HD, the system adds 24 zeroes to the end of your 24-bit audio. So when you're mixing (gain changes, panning, EQing, etc...) there's all of that "buffer" math to keep your audio fresh and happy. Apparently that's one of the main reasons HD sounds so good.

Another might be the convertors. Ed Mietner, who's something of a guru when it comes to the analog-side of convertor design (the hardest part to get right), got mucho props from Digi for his role in HD.

I look forward to getting a HD system like like a kid at Christmas. I'll be using it at 44.1K, though.
Old 6th November 2002
  #12
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Maybe its the 48bit mixer or the TDM2 architecture, but there is a difference in the sound. Especially how the tracks gel together. For me this was the biggest deal since I mix a lot of songs which are at a minimum 64 tracks. Also on the old system, when you used the auxes it also changed the sound. Now its no more.
This has been my experience too. A lot less work to put the mix together...


R., if you don't have a PT system right now I'd say go with HD. Chances are if you go with a used Mix, you'll want to upgrade it in a year or two and by this time it will have lost most if not all its resale/exchange value. Better start to amortize a new HD system right now and have the time to do it completely before they come out with the next generation or they finally turn to "native"... :eek:

Of course, if you don't think it will bring enough money in to do so, by all mean don't do it just because we say so! But don't go for Mix then, go LE or Nuendo or something cheap...

Good luck!
Old 9th November 2002
  #13
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cajonezzz's Avatar
 

We're moving to a new facility that will allow us the space for a "b" room for editing and pre pro.
Our quandry was wheather or not to buy a second Mix system and upgrade the existing system with better convertors ,Dangerous 2b, clock etc. After stumbling on this thread I have seriously started entertaining the thought of HD (thus taking funds away from other goodies like outboard and a few new mics )
My local DIGI rep confirmed that there would be no issues going back n forth between our present Mix and the new HD at 48k ( aside from the obvious) and everything I've heard about the new hardware makes it hard to justify "hotrodding" another mix to approach HD sonically. My mashing the numbers puts us within 4 or 5 k of an hd3 anyhow (well betrading in the 888's as they won't be need in the "b" room) so here we go.... thankfully , the GIG rep offered to bring an HD system to our room where we can a/b....he felt confident this would push us over the edge. report to follow ( there goes the pair of distressors we were saving for )
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