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Dye's Amp / Cabinet preferences
Old 4th April 2004
  #1
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Dye's Amp / Cabinet preferences

Charles,

Each situation when working with electric guitar is like a snowflake. What are some of your Guitar/ Amp and Cabinet choices when you track electric guitar in different sitatutions? Clean/Distorted/Lead/etc. If you could only have 5 amp/cab combos for the rest of your life, what would they be? How often does McDsp's Chrome, Amplitube, Sans amp, and Amp Farm come into play?
Old 6th April 2004
  #2
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

e-cue,

How's it going? Great to see you here.

Re gtr amps: I'm more of a naturalist engineer in the sense that I usually let the player pick the amps + I mic 'em. I may make suggestions not unlike those producers ask of me during a mix. ("How 'bout a fuller, bigger, smaller, thinner, taller, fatter, redder, bluer, blacker sound?") As a producer though, the first thing I'll do in this regard is make sure I have a brilliant player with fantastic tones. Then I can ask for pink gtr tones with some security.

Not that it was your question, but I do have my preferences with mics for gtr. I like the combination of a 57 and either a Royer R-121 or a Coles 4038 for guitars. The ribbon provides a very smooth warm tone, and the 57 provides a great midrange punch. I place them on two different speakers (if applicable) and make sure they are perfectly in phase.

I then get my sound simply by moving the mic's (to the center of the speaker for a brighter tone + to the outside for warmer). I mix them at the console and buss them to a single track. With this combination I can get a very rich or edgy tone simply by blending between the two mics. And in most cases I don't need any EQ to find the sound I'm looking for. It really gives you a full warmth with great cut.

Re the plugs: I love AmpliTube + Chrome Tone both. Again not what you asked for, but I've been getting some fantastic drum room tones on a rock project I mixed recently with Chrome Tone. But yes they do get used for guitars also. And I still find myself turning to AmpFarm for the tones I know it can provide. The plug-in amps have an up front sound that's different from real amps + it don't suck.

One of the features of Chrome Tone that none of the other amp simulators have (that I know of) is that you can bypass the speaker cabinet. I always wanted to be able to distort the signal thru the amp on AmpFarm without having the speaker color it, but I couldn't. Now I can.

Hope this helps. Tho I didn't really answer your question. (Gotta kick outta typin' it though.)
Old 6th April 2004
  #3
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
e-cue,

How's it going? Great to see you here.
I made it a point to park in your spot at Criteria whenever I could.

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
Not that it was your question, but I do have my preferences with mics for gtr. I like the combination of a 57 and either a Royer R-121 or a Coles 4038 for guitars. The ribbon provides a very smooth warm tone, and the 57 provides a great midrange punch. I place them on two different speakers (if applicable) and make sure they are perfectly in phase.
Do you use things like the IBP? Just mic placement?

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
Re the plugs: I love AmpliTube + Chrome Tone both. Again not what you asked for, but I've been getting some fantastic drum room tones on a rock project I mixed recently with Chrome Tone. But yes they do get used for guitars also. And I still find myself turning to AmpFarm for the tones I know it can provide. The plug-in amps have an up front sound that's different from real amps + it don't suck.
Drum tones eh? Like a lo fi effect type thing?

I assume you use DI's when using these. Any DI prefs?

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
One of the features of Chrome Tone that none of the other amp simulators have (that I know of) is that you can bypass the speaker cabinet. I always wanted to be able to distort the signal thru the amp on AmpFarm without having the speaker color it, but I couldn't. Now I can.
Chrometone is sick. As i understand it Pensado helped develop it. The triggering for effects with different thresholds is just crazy flexible. It's one of the more enjoyable newer plug in's I play with.

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
Hope this helps. Tho I didn't really answer your question. (Gotta kick outta typin' it though.)
Well, you sorta did in that you don't really have a preference.
Old 6th April 2004
  #4
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

e-cue,

I made it a point to park in your spot at Criteria whenever I could.

I thought I saw a new oil spot when I got back. heh

Do you use things like the IBP?

Nope, eye ball. I try to align the capsules as best I can.

Drum tones eh? Like a lo fi effect type thing?

Lo fi--sorta, but thats not really the goal. The goal is power + size. The distortion brings out a ring in the room, mostly on the snare, that has a Bonham-esque character. "Whaaacckkaaaaaaaa"

I assume you use DI's when using these. Any DI prefs?

Yes, but not usually DI boxes. Normally the 1/4" inputs on a pre like a Neve 1073 or the Vintech X73i's. There's a Manley 1U rack DI I like (don't know name--maybe it's DAMM). But don't actually have a fave DI box.

Chrometone is sick. As i understand it Pensado helped develop it. The triggering for effects with different thresholds is just crazy flexible. It's one of the more enjoyable newer plug in's I play with.

Yes, truly a major fan. Have not fully explored all it can do. One hell of a fun box tho.
Old 6th April 2004
  #5
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 

Hey, Charles

Have you tried a Soundelux U195 mixed with a R-121?
I use that for rock gtr all the time and sounds very thick/punchy yet smooth.
Old 6th April 2004
  #6
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re: Chrome Tone

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
The distortion brings out a ring in the room, mostly on the snare, that has a Bonham-esque character. "Whaaacckkaaaaaaaa"
I'm interested - details please.

Where exactly are you using CT on your drums? (I'm guessing a room mic mult?) And what's a good setting to start with?

Thanks.
Old 7th April 2004
  #7
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Faderjockey
Have you tried a Soundelux U195 mixed with a R-121?
I use that for rock gtr all the time and sounds very thick/punchy yet smooth.
No I haven't, but I will give it a try.
Old 7th April 2004
  #8
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Re: re: Chrome Tone

Quote:
Originally posted by bassmac
I'm interested - details please.

Where exactly are you using CT on your drums? (I'm guessing a room mic mult?) And what's a good setting to start with?
Yes, I'm usually using Chrome Tone on a dupped track (the PT equivalent to a mult) of the drum kit's room mics and I use only the amp portion of the CT (no chorus, flange, wah, etc.). There are six elements at play here:

Pre Chrome Tone EQ: If there is too much cymbal in the room tracks I sometimes roll off the top end prior to going into CT.

Compressor: I sometimes use CT's internal compressor, sometimes place a McDSP CB4 before the Chrome Tone in British mode (emulation of the Neve 33609), or sometimes both. The idea is to get more sustain out of the room before hitting the amp.

Speaker: Next, I set the speaker before adding the distortion. I don't always use the speaker, but I find it gives the drums an older more Glyn Johns sound. There are four cabinet models and I experiment, but I find myself favoring Cab D Close. It is the fullest sound, but still has the vintage quality.

Distortion: This is where the ring comes from. First, I turn up the Amount to about 50. I find myself trying all the models from Dist 1 to Dist 5. The more distorted the amp, the more aggressive and ringy the room tone. I then re-adjust the Amount until I hear a tone I like. Next, I boost the Drive to about 50 and tune its Frequency to bring out the color of the snare's ringing sustain. Could be darker or brighter, just depends on the mood I'm trying to conjure up. I then re-adjust the Drive to a level I like. I find the more distortion I use the more space it occupies in the drum mix, and the harder it can be to control.

EQ: I may use CT's EQ to shape the sound, or I may place a post CT EQ to control it. Sometimes I roll off top to further control the cymbals and boost somewhere near the snare (hi-mids) to give it the shape and color that works for the track.

Time-Adjuster: I use TA to compensate for any processing delay inconsistencies between any of the drum tracks. I make sure this track maintains its relative position to the other drums and most importantly to the non-distorted original room track.

I do not BTW realign the timing of the room track in anyway to be closer to the timing of the close miked tracks. This is the room track and part of its sound is based upon the space that is created because of the distance from the drums. The delay is inherent to creating the feeling of space.

I then blend this Chrome Toned track along with the non-distorted room track into the kit. It can add a real hugeness to the drums (very much unlike digital reverb) while your close miked drums will still maintain all of the punch + impact. It can make almost any size room sound much larger than it is.

Hope this helps.
Old 7th April 2004
  #9
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bassmac's Avatar
 

Whoa! ...excellent details - thanks Charles.
Old 7th April 2004
  #10
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Thanks. I'll try to get a before + after MP3 up.
Old 7th April 2004
  #11
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mitgong's Avatar
 

Say, Charles, I think there is actually a setting in AmpFarm for "no cab". Somewhere under "Big cab". I could be wrong.

I wish there was a "no head" setting. It would be cool to mix and match heads and cabs between the various emulators.

Not that I would ever use a plug-in instead of the real thing, of course. heh. heh.
Old 8th April 2004
  #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by mitgong
Say, Charles, I think there is actually a setting in AmpFarm for "no cab". Somewhere under "Big cab". I could be wrong.

I wish there was a "no head" setting. It would be cool to mix and match heads and cabs between the various emulators.
Matt,

Oops got that backwards didn't I. You're completely right. The "no head" setting is exactly what I meant to say. AmpFarm doesn't allow you to bypass the head, but Chrome Tone does. You can filter a signal just through its speaker cab which I think is quite cool.

Thanks.
Old 9th April 2004
  #13
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Hi!
Hope y'all don't mind my 3 cents here heh

I started on paino at a yound age, and got into guitar in my teens. Am still in search of "THAT tone." I have come close, and have been happy with "rigs" I have owned over the years.

I had a live rig that was incredible, and contained some of the most awful components, reputation-wise.
It started with a Peavy Audttion Chorus. Little 2-8" combo for practicing. I loved the sound it got, and decided to utilize the "pre out" on it. I love having a decent "sculpting" arsenal, and instead of using a boatload of pedals, I opted for an ART SGX Express + the X-10 foot controller. The two "wah/volume" type pedals, plus banking/patch buttons were a dream come true.
Instead of grabbing a tube power amp, I grabbed a Peavy M2600 stereo power amp. Stereo out from SGX into M2600.
Last thing to find was a pair of 4x12 cabs.
I found an empty Dean Markley 4x12 in beautiful shape.
I had a friend help me to copy the DM 4x12 and build a second.
Originally, I loaded the DM 4x12 with EV's. Tried Celestions. Then, as an experiment, I threw 4 Peavy Black Widow's in the second cab.
I ended up preferring the second cab.
While helping a friend who did coin-op machine maint, he brought in a juke box that had been trashed up top. I saw what looked like two 12" speakers in the thing, and after checking, found they were *rated* as 300w speakers.
Threw the two of those in the Dean Markley, and then took two fo the Black Widows and threw them in as well.
I cannot count the number of musiciabs that came up to me after gigs to ask WTH I was using!
Still have the rig today, still my fav.

But, still cannot get rid of the "urge" to find more, and.or better!
Legacy head and 4x12: Love it!
Mesa Triaxis + 2:Ninety- love it!

Still trying to find the magical pre/mic combo...
next stop: TG-2 + Royer + unknown room mic...

oh- prog rock/metal head here heh
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