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Drums
Old 15th June 2009
  #1
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Drums

Do you have any advice on how to place room mics when recording drums ?
Old 15th June 2009
  #2
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Snare Drums

What mics and positions do you like to use on Snare Drums ?
Old 16th June 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
Do you have any advice on how to place room mics when recording drums ?
Trust your ears! You should move around the room when the drummer is playing and listen to what sounds good. Then put up the mics and record a verse and chorus...if it does not sound good, move them.
Old 16th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
What mics and positions do you like to use on Snare Drums ?
That's a question for the engineers to weigh in on!
Old 16th June 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScumBum View Post
What mics and positions do you like to use on Snare Drums ?
These are all good choices, depending on the style of music, and how the drummer plays:

Josephson es22
Senn 421, 441
AKG 451. 414
Heil PR 30, PR 20
Telefunken M80
SM 57
Beyer M201

I usually put the mic right over the rim of the snare, up about 2 or 3 inches, aimed right at the center of the head. I have on occasion placed the mic on the side of the snare aimed at the shell, which can sound great.
I also like to use a bottom mic, making sure the phase is correct.
Old 16th June 2009
  #6
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Drum replacement?

Cheers and thanks!

I have two questions for you:
first is one of production, mainly drum recording and mixing.
Do you ever use sound replacement as a tool for any of your productions?
Snares and such?

Thanks mang!
Old 16th June 2009
  #7
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Do you usually stick with one mic on Snare Top and one on Snare Bottom or do you use more at times (for example: top, shell, bottom or two top mics and one bottom)?
Old 16th June 2009
  #8
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When mixing the bottom mic, how do you treat it when it comes to compression, EQ, etc?

The snare bottom mic has always eluded me in it's usefullness!
Old 16th June 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButchVig View Post
These are all good choices, depending on the style of music, and how the drummer plays:

Josephson es22
Senn 421, 441
AKG 451. 414
Heil PR 30, PR 20
Telefunken M80
SM 57
Beyer M201

I usually put the mic right over the rim of the snare, up about 2 or 3 inches, aimed right at the center of the head. I have on occasion placed the mic on the side of the snare aimed at the shell, which can sound great.
I also like to use a bottom mic, making sure the phase is correct.
In my experience with BV, it's been the es22, the m80 or the 57. Usually with a PR20 on the bottom. We always record the bottom mic, but sometimes it doesn't make it to the mix. Sometimes, it's EXACTLY what's necessary to give it the tone!
Old 16th June 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bush View Post
In my experience with BV, it's been the es22, the m80 or the 57. Usually with a PR20 on the bottom. We always record the bottom mic, but sometimes it doesn't make it to the mix. Sometimes, it's EXACTLY what's necessary to give it the tone!
oh yeah and often with a transient designer on the bottom mic to dial in the amount of snares.


Stole that idea from Joe McGrath for full disclosure!
Old 17th June 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bush View Post
oh yeah and often with a transient designer on the bottom mic to dial in the amount of snares.


Stole that idea from Joe McGrath for full disclosure!
Yes, the transient designer is awesome on the bottom snare mic, you can really adjust the amount of "white noise" depending on the tempo...
Old 17th June 2009
  #12
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Butch, I have problems getting consistancy of sound out of a snare drum at times and the drum sounds kind of 'thin' and lacks body. It's kind of like listening to a Static-X recording. Have you got any advice in that department?
Old 17th June 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButchVig View Post
Yes, the transient designer is awesome on the bottom snare mic, you can really adjust the amount of "white noise" depending on the tempo...
never used it that way. great tip. I ll give it a try. Thank you so much
Old 17th June 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 View Post
Cheers and thanks!

I have two questions for you:
first is one of production, mainly drum recording and mixing.
Do you ever use sound replacement as a tool for any of your productions?
Snares and such?

Thanks mang!
Sometimes I will use a sample to get rid of hi hat bleed. For instance, on the Subways album, Josh the drummer always washes his cymbals, he does not use a hat. So Billy Bush recorded individual hits of the snare drum, and on a couple of the songs, we replaced ONLY the top snare, leaving the bottom snare mic live. To my ears, it gave the snare drum "focus" but it didn't sound sterile because all the rattle on the bottom mic is live performance.
Old 17th June 2009
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthropophatige View Post
Butch, I have problems getting consistancy of sound out of a snare drum at times and the drum sounds kind of 'thin' and lacks body. It's kind of like listening to a Static-X recording. Have you got any advice in that department?
What kind of snare drums are you using? Maybe you need a deeper snare.

What are the mics, try something that will give it weight!
Old 17th June 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButchVig View Post
What kind of snare drums are you using? Maybe you need a deeper snare.

What are the mics, try something that will give it weight!
Mostly I've been using the ol' 421, 451 or 57. I saw you talking about the snare Dave Grohl used on Nevermind, but what mic did you use on it to get that punch?

I don't really think the snare itself is the issue, I've mostly been using a 7"x13", though it's not my kit so I couldn't really tell you much about it.
Old 17th June 2009
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bush View Post
oh yeah and often with a transient designer on the bottom mic to dial in the amount of snares.


Stole that idea from Joe McGrath for full disclosure!
You're an honest man Billy Bush!
Old 18th June 2009
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButchVig View Post
Sometimes I will use a sample to get rid of hi hat bleed. For instance, on the Subways album, Josh the drummer always washes his cymbals, he does not use a hat. So Billy Bush recorded individual hits of the snare drum, and on a couple of the songs, we replaced ONLY the top snare, leaving the bottom snare mic live. To my ears, it gave the snare drum "focus" but it didn't sound sterile because all the rattle on the bottom mic is live performance.
replace ONLY the top top snare mic.
What a gem!

Thank you and cheers!!
Old 18th June 2009
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMc View Post
You're an honest man Billy Bush!
Hey Joe - good to see you here! Gotta give credit where its due!
Old 18th June 2009
  #20
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Thumbs up

Where do good drum sounds start? The kit in the room. For me it starts with Mike Fasano - world's greatest drum tech. He has an incredible collection of drums and he's a fantastic drum tuner. On top of that he's a great drummer and he knows how to put drummers in the right state of mind to perform. Shameless plug but he deserves it. I'm sure Butch and Billy would agree.
Old 18th June 2009
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMc View Post
Where do good drum sounds start? The kit in the room. For me it starts with Mike Fasano - world's greatest drum tech. He has an incredible collection of drums and he's a fantastic drum tuner. On top of that he's a great drummer and he knows how to put drummers in the right state of mind to perform. Shameless plug but he deserves it. I'm sure Butch and Billy would agree.
Yes! Mike "The Sack" Fasano is awesome!
He is very proactive with drummers, he watches how they play, he listens to the songs, he has great drums, and he really knows how to tune them!!!
Old 18th June 2009
  #22
well I guess I'll join in on the party with this thread.... drums are all common sense.. the most important thing is to listen to what they sound like under the mic... I like to tune the drums with headphones on so I'm hearing the return which usually has some sort of compression... it can sound totally different in the cans.... then hit them well... but before all that hire Mike Fasano because he truly rules... I've worked with Mike on a bunch of projects including the latest Oceanway Drums library that will be out at some point and not only does he have some of the best sounding kits... he puts a lotta love into it ...
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