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Reason 8 Announced by Propellerhead! DAW Software
Old 13th August 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
I am a bit flabbergasted at the *yawn* responses to this announcement, both here and elsewhere (including the usually over-the-top-fanboi-ish PH forums). This is obviously a major, major code rewrite - the entire GUI has been completely revamped, and they have finally put an emphasis on easy/intuitive workflow in the sequencer. Those are Big F'n Deals (TM), yet because there is no big "WOW, COOL!!!" feature like RE's or a new instrument, the general response has been "meh, not worth my $130"...

Which goes to show just how right the marketeers are - it doesn't matter if you actually care about your users (punters), just give them shiny things to brag about and all will be ok...

Seriously, I'll take workflow and architecture improvements over flash-bang features (Loopmash, anyone - though I must admit I do use that one) any freakin' day of the week. Do they get me as "excited" as RE's or Audiomatic or [insert feature here]? No, not really. But when it comes down to it, they are the things that really matter to me as I use the program - so, ask yourself, why the "meh"?
How is charging users $130 dollars for a UI refresh (which isn't really that major a code refresh since they barely touched the interface as a whole, they just streamlined it a bit, and most of the ground work had already been laid with Reason 6/Record1.5 anyway). This is not worth the upgrade price imo. A UI refresh and some stuff that should have been there 3 years ago doesn't equate $130 bucks imo. When they start getting serious then they get my money for now I'll go use something with a better sequencer.
Old 13th August 2014
  #62
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Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
I did some beta-testing for 7...what I really found useful was the ability to record a drum loop live, then edit within the loop/marker points and convert to a .rex file at the click of the mouse. The sampler features were cool too: just assign a channel to the sampler and record, then edit.
You're certainly not talking about recording a drum set with more than 2 mics... because you can't do grouped or multitrack editing in Reason.

I seriously don't understand how Propellerhead is trying to position themselves as a recording solution for people who own 2 mics or less.
Old 13th August 2014
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
You're certainly not talking about recording a drum set with more than 2 mics... because you can't do grouped or multitrack editing in Reason...
No drum kit - just hand drum/percussion. I usually record 1-6 tracks at a time and found the new features in 7 useful for editing...nice comp editor too.
Old 14th August 2014
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naugo View Post
This should be called reason 7.1
Nail on the head.
Old 14th August 2014
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
Nail on the head.
+1
Old 14th August 2014
  #66
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well if you ask me its not a very sexy upgrade.. but it could be be very much worth it.. I am kinda upset that they are taking the line 6 stuff out though
Old 14th August 2014
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by apoclypse View Post
How is charging users $130 dollars for a UI refresh (which isn't really that major a code refresh since they barely touched the interface as a whole, they just streamlined it a bit, and most of the ground work had already been laid with Reason 6/Record1.5 anyway). This is not worth the upgrade price imo. A UI refresh and some stuff that should have been there 3 years ago doesn't equate $130 bucks imo. When they start getting serious then they get my money for now I'll go use something with a better sequencer.
So, "should have been there 3 years ago"???



If it was so easy, why did it take them 3 years to re-do the browser? This is not some minor UI overhaul. It took a lot of re-coding to build the browser into the main window. The sheer number of assumptions...

Look, Propellerheads aren't exactly a big company. How many people do you think they have coding this? How many man-hours do you think it took? How much did it cost to do?

The attitude that you and people who think like you have is so completely unfair as to be mind-boggling. Neither you nor I nor anyone else without inside knowledge know just how much work it took to implement this "little big of streamlining" [sic]. My guess, as someone who has worked on this type of stuff before, is that it took a whole helluva lot of work. There is no such thing as a "minor UI revamp" that isn't a simple re-skin. This isn't a re-skin! I mean, drag-n-drop ALONE is a spectacularly difficult thing to implement consistently...

Which brings up a point about Reason - because of PHead's insistence on keeping the experience consistent, it will become harder and harder for them to make big "flash-bang" improvements to the workflow, at least in a way that is immediately obvious and demonstrable to the unimpressed. I applaud them for keeping the workflow the same through all these years, but as this response to their new version shows, it is going to backfire. People want to SEE the big changes, not have to EXPERIENCE them. It is a real marketing problem they have on their hands, and one that will only get worse going forward...

All of which is irrelevant to your point, which is that to you this isn't worth $130. In my experience, these sorts of changes - workflow improvements - are exactly the sorts of things that you have to try before being able to judge. From what I could tell, and going by past PHead experience, these seem exceedingly well thought-out. To me, ANY workflow improvement is probably worth the $130 - if I save two hours in a month it is worth it to me.

Oh, and to those who keep saying this should be 7.1, what??? This is a major interface change, even if it doesn't immediately look like it. You don't change the interface completely on a X.1 release...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
You're certainly not talking about recording a drum set with more than 2 mics... because you can't do grouped or multitrack editing in Reason.

I seriously don't understand how Propellerhead is trying to position themselves as a recording solution for people who own 2 mics or less.
I rarely find the lack of streamlined multi-track editing to be problematic, but that is probably because I rarely do more than stereo recording in Reason. This is exactly the sort of thing it would be great if they'd implement - and given their excellent comping system (pretty much the cleanest, if not the best, I've had the pleasure to use), I'm sure they could implement it in a much less fiddly way than the major DAWs.

Oh, and BTW, there is a workaround for this - check out this old SOS article. It may not be as "clean" as in the others, but you can in fact edit multiple regions at the same time...
Old 14th August 2014
  #68
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sam c's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
So, "should have been there 3 years ago"???



If it was so easy, why did it take them 3 years to re-do the browser? This is not some minor UI overhaul. It took a lot of re-coding to build the browser into the main window. The sheer number of assumptions...

Look, Propellerheads aren't exactly a big company. How many people do you think they have coding this? How many man-hours do you think it took? How much did it cost to do?

The attitude that you and people who think like you have is so completely unfair as to be mind-boggling. Neither you nor I nor anyone else without inside knowledge know just how much work it took to implement this "little big of streamlining" [sic]. My guess, as someone who has worked on this type of stuff before, is that it took a whole helluva lot of work. There is no such thing as a "minor UI revamp" that isn't a simple re-skin. This isn't a re-skin! I mean, drag-n-drop ALONE is a spectacularly difficult thing to implement consistently...

Which brings up a point about Reason - because of PHead's insistence on keeping the experience consistent, it will become harder and harder for them to make big "flash-bang" improvements to the workflow, at least in a way that is immediately obvious and demonstrable to the unimpressed. I applaud them for keeping the workflow the same through all these years, but as this response to their new version shows, it is going to backfire. People want to SEE the big changes, not have to EXPERIENCE them. It is a real marketing problem they have on their hands, and one that will only get worse going forward...

All of which is irrelevant to your point, which is that to you this isn't worth $130. In my experience, these sorts of changes - workflow improvements - are exactly the sorts of things that you have to try before being able to judge. From what I could tell, and going by past PHead experience, these seem exceedingly well thought-out. To me, ANY workflow improvement is probably worth the $130 - if I save two hours in a month it is worth it to me.

Oh, and to those who keep saying this should be 7.1, what??? This is a major interface change, even if it doesn't immediately look like it. You don't change the interface completely on a X.1 release...

..
I agree!
Old 14th August 2014
  #69
Can someone explain to me the UI differences? I never used reason, except for a few songs back when reason 4 was out, but being someone who hasn't constantly seen this daw, I can't quite see the differences vs someone who stares at it every day.
Old 14th August 2014
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_04_04 View Post
Can someone explain to me the UI differences? I never used reason, except for a few songs back when reason 4 was out, but being someone who hasn't constantly seen this daw, I can't quite see the differences vs someone who stares at it every day.
Well, Reason 6+ are so different from 4 as to make it hard to point out all the little differences, so I'll focus on the three big things that are new in 8 alone:
  1. The browser and toolbox are now integrated into the main window, allowing for drag and drop of presets, devices, loops, and so on.
  2. The sequencer editing has been revamped to make it more intuitive - not too many details about this yet, but what they have said/shown is pretty darn promising.
  3. The GUI has been generally streamlined, making everything easier to use and more accessible. Before it was a bit of a mess, understandable given that Record was an add-on.

Oh, and the Line 6 amp sims have been removed, and new Softube-developed ones have been included.
Old 14th August 2014
  #71
The problem isn't the man hours. Im sure it was alot of work.

The problem is the workflow since reason 4 has been clunky and awkward. These changes should have happened years ago.

Who emulates an ssl console and leaves out groups!? Who does that!? What good is a console without groups?

No midi? No drag and drop?

I get to pay 130 each for these things?

There milking me at this point and im getting sick of it. Other programs have had many of these things at the beginning. Props are playing catch up.

I love reason. This is coming from someone who uses the program extensively and likes it, but they slip up from time to time and drop the ball. This is one of those times.

It took them 7 versions to get me graphic displays of frequency's. Something extremely vital. Yeah I could have fanagled an m class e.q. into every god damned thing I recorded, but that's exactly my point. Way to much b.s. to go through to get simple thing done.

I hate to say it, but abelton got all that right. They just dont have the same options in other areas. Grill me for that if you like.
Old 14th August 2014
  #72
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post

Oh, and the Line 6 amp sims have been removed, and new Softube-developed ones have been included.
According to the Reason 8 FAQ Line 6 amps will remain until 2016.

https://www.propellerheads.se/produc...n/reason8/FAQ/

Quote:
With the new guitar amps coming in Reason 8, what happens with the Line 6 amps?
In addition to the new guitar and bass amp devices introduced in Reason 8 and Reason Essentials 8, the Line 6 Guitar and Bass devices are still available. Please Note: In order to support future product development, the Line 6 guitar and bass amp devices will no longer be available in the Reason rack by October 2016. In order to prevent any future compatibility issues, Propellerhead recommends that you render to audio any tracks that use the Line 6 devices. Alternative amp models will be available in Reason 8 and later.
Old 14th August 2014
  #73
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
The problem isn't the man hours. Im sure it was alot of work.

The problem is the workflow since reason 4 has been clunky and awkward. These changes should have happened years ago.

Who emulates an ssl console and leaves out groups!? Who does that!? What good is a console without groups?

No midi? No drag and drop?

I get to pay 130 each for these things?
Not only this things... You also pay for an enterprise who don't take their customers for beta tester, if you want to compare with Ableton live or Logic pro etc. compare also the number of version it take to obtain a build "with out too many bugs".

Reason is the most rock solid music app on the market while Live or Logic takes 15 version and 2 years to work correctly.

How much I get to pay for these things?
Old 14th August 2014
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
...The attitude that you and people who think like you have is so completely unfair as to be mind-boggling. Neither you nor I nor anyone else without inside knowledge know just how much work it took to implement this "little big of streamlining" [sic]. My guess...
So it's OK for you to speculate but not anyone else?
Old 14th August 2014
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
So it's OK for you to speculate but not anyone else?
Yes Im finding his style very confronting. Chill out sir
Old 14th August 2014
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahadeva View Post
Not only this things... You also pay for an enterprise who don't take their customers for beta tester, if you want to compare with Ableton live or Logic pro etc. compare also the number of version it take to obtain a build "with out too many bugs".

Reason is the most rock solid music app on the market while Live or Logic takes 15 version and 2 years to work correctly.

How much I get to pay for these things?
Reason is rock solid, and I love that about it.

And the rest of that goes into the part I was talking about with abelton lacking in other departments. Abelton was just an example. The things reason is largely missing have been in other programs for years. Stability at the cost of flow.

i think they finally incorporated something slighty comparable to recycle, but again it's clunky and un intuitive in 7 in my opinion.

Why can't I sell off my old versions? I've got a box full of old reason crap taking up space in my studio I can't sell. Super annoying.

But to get on the other side of the fence again, im not sure any one program is a magic bullet. I seem to be needing two or three.
Old 15th August 2014
  #77
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I say call it what it is. A super flop move. Customer always right? No, but they pay the bills. Some of us like me left reason a while back for this same reason. We recieved what they wanted to give instead of what we asked for. We didnt ask for much i dont think. A little punch in punch out. Up to date editing tools. better zoom. grouping (we have that now i guess lol.)But to go through all that encoding to re arrange the browser. All that encoding to add drag and drop.
Then spring it on everyone like its a revolutionary $130 upgrade.we dont have to buy it.snds like most of us wont unless its a trick and it really has the bells and whistles. (doubt it). but 7.1 and free sounds more like it. Props take a loss for the team and a major PR power move.lol. If it was me the lil fish in the BIG pond that i am. I would have held on to that and did some more encoding. And maybe go back a few years and glance at the forum to what the reason lovers are asking for and listen closely. wink
Old 15th August 2014
  #78
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gizeh12's Avatar
Reason is fun to use, the sequencer is very straight forward it NEVER crashed on me once after years of using it.
Are we sure the features mentioned in the video are really the only features in 8? Maybe there is more we don't know about yet. it happened with reason 7 too
Old 15th August 2014
  #79
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Reasons biggest problem all along imo has been the need to use dual monitors to get the most out of it, unhooking the sequencer from rack and mixer and needing a window for each really just alienates all those people who like to work from a laptop, use an imac or PC with one monitor, it looks like v8 addresses this issue and brings the single window work flow back to those with only one window to work in...and yet still allows those of us who enjoy dual monitors to keep working the way we are used to as well..
Old 15th August 2014
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by dented42ford View Post
Well, Reason 6+ are so different from 4 as to make it hard to point out all the little differences, so I'll focus on the three big things that are new in 8 alone:
  1. The browser and toolbox are now integrated into the main window, allowing for drag and drop of presets, devices, loops, and so on.
  2. The sequencer editing has been revamped to make it more intuitive - not too many details about this yet, but what they have said/shown is pretty darn promising.
  3. The GUI has been generally streamlined, making everything easier to use and more accessible. Before it was a bit of a mess, understandable given that Record was an add-on.

Oh, and the Line 6 amp sims have been removed, and new Softube-developed ones have been included.
Thanks for the additional information and help
Old 6th September 2014
  #81
Gear Addict
 
mrsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlestickz View Post
Reasons biggest problem all along imo has been the need to use dual monitors to get the most out of it, unhooking the sequencer from rack and mixer and needing a window for each really just alienates all those people who like to work from a laptop, use an imac or PC with one monitor, it looks like v8 addresses this issue and brings the single window work flow back to those with only one window to work in...and yet still allows those of us who enjoy dual monitors to keep working the way we are used to as well..
There are 3keys F5 F6 and F7 those we're enough for me. I tried to beta a couple of minutes ago, but i think the old version is fine for me. I don't like the new look and design.
Old 6th September 2014
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
Who emulates an ssl console and leaves out groups!? Who does that!? What good is a console without groups?

No midi? No drag and drop?
Ummm..i am just demoing with it right now. Yes one can import midi via clumsy menu browsing but then there is a stupid ID8 device created. At this point (i am talking R7) one can not import midi to for example Thor track. You need to import it on separate track (when that lame id8 is created) and only then you can drag your midi clip to Thor and you need to delete id8 to not complicate things in sequencer and rack. Quite stupid if you ask me. I hope this is changed in R8. And iam shocked that Reaosn users adapted to this and did not screamed right from the start...ID8 come on...

However you are wrong about groups...This is done VERY simple. Just select number of channels you like, right click and route them to new group. Very easy if you ask me. You can have as much group as you want.

Still, plenty of room for improvement. MIDI editing is insane in the wrong way. Extremely stupid when you are coming from any other host on this planet.

Still...I just recalled how Reason is fun to work with. I remember i tried it when it was v1. It sounded really bad but it was VERY funny and great to work with. Now soundwise it is really pretty much on pair with everything else. And SSL is really good and fast to work with..

interesting...
Old 6th September 2014
  #83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpod View Post
Ummm..i am just demoing with it right now. Yes one can import midi via clumsy menu browsing but then there is a stupid ID8 device created. At this point (i am talking R7) one can not import midi to for example Thor track. You need to import it on separate track (when that lame id8 is created) and only then you can drag your midi clip to Thor and you need to delete id8 to not complicate things in sequencer and rack. Quite stupid if you ask me. I hope this is changed in R8. And iam shocked that Reaosn users adapted to this and did not screamed right from the start...ID8 come on...

However you are wrong about groups...This is done VERY simple. Just select number of channels you like, right click and route them to new group. Very easy if you ask me. You can have as much group as you want.

Still, plenty of room for improvement. MIDI editing is insane in the wrong way. Extremely stupid when you are coming from any other host on this planet.

Still...I just recalled how Reason is fun to work with. I remember i tried it when it was v1. It sounded really bad but it was VERY funny and great to work with. Now soundwise it is really pretty much on pair with everything else. And SSL is really good and fast to work with..

interesting...
I personally would like a group channel strip, with the trimmings that comes with on a real ssl console, because I thought reason was built to emulate a hardware workflow, which they get about half right.

Agreed on midi, and they seem to fudge up a lot of stuff like that. Things that really should be dead simple so you can focus on music and not fiddling with cumbersome workflow.

Mostly I meant they took many versions to bring us midi and other features that really should have been top priority. Not that 7 doesn't provide these things, it "finally" sorta does.
Old 7th September 2014
  #84
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
what are peoples problems with midi...??

I've not had any problems with it, granted I'm not sequencing external synths with it, i play all my synths in live by hand as audio, it's far quicker and allows for immediate editing-slicing etc..
Old 7th September 2014
  #85
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Kindred's Avatar
 

Hopefully this is a big improvement on R7. I just upgraded from 6.5 to 7 to take advantage of the grace period deal and I can't see any differences TBH.

I am still primarily Cubase however love using Reason every once in a while to come up with track ideas (tracks started in Reason tend to sound different than the tracks I sound in Cubase because of they different way the sequencer is laid out and other reasons).

If they create a better sequencer I will be 100% satisfied. Although I am still not a fan of the Rack Extension model (ie - Owning the VSTI of a synth and then having to rebuy for a new platform)...
Old 7th September 2014
  #86
Gear Guru
 
fiddlestickz's Avatar
Not sure how many of you users know this little trick, but I find the audio quantize feature superb in Reason...

say you have a synth or drum machine or ipad playing some riff at 133 bpm, just set you Reason sequncer to the same tempo, hit record using the 1 bar count in, hit play on your device and start playing whilst recording...when you are finished, turn snap to 64th notes, go to the start of the audio file, trim off the messy start and find the first clean beat or note, trim off the rubbish, then slide the entire file to the start of the song 1.0.0.0 now, select the audio file, then right click on it and select quantize, now it will put every beat or note smack bang in time with every 64th note or 32nd or 1/4 bar, what ever you select...try it's awesome and saves so much time..
Old 7th September 2014
  #87
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by sameal View Post
I personally would like a group channel strip, with the trimmings that comes with on a real ssl console, because I thought reason was built to emulate a hardware workflow, which they get about half right.
But what i told you above will give you exactly that. Not sure what part you do not understand? On real console you have group fader (with all corresponding options). On Reason mixer it isn't there but you can create one and it will act exactly like real mixer group fader does. I mean exactly the same.

So for example you can group all of your drums to one group and mix and trim from there. I don't see any difference. Actually it is a bit more powerful (if you look it option wise) on Reason since you can then route that group to whatever you like..


That option is really two clicks away.

However i am disappointed in editing options, mainly draw anything...i see on R8 video it is changed. Now you can draw a note or clip with...double click..wow..

It's a real funny adventure here demoing Reason. Half hour i am amazed by some things, another half hour i can not belive what i am seeing..
Old 30th September 2014
  #88
Lives for gear
User Demo of the new Softube Amps

Old 30th September 2014
  #89
Those actually sound like guitars as opposed to whatever the line 6's were farting out most of the time.

And I usually like line 6.

Still not upgrading. I see the direction props is headed, and my money would be spent best every 3 or so versions I feel.

Still an update. Not a full version pricetag.
Old 30th September 2014
  #90
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ksandvik's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
User Demo of the new Softube Amps

The demo person should have tuned his/her guitar (1:44)
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