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The music gods have heard my prayers!!!
Old 7th September 2019
  #31
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monacos View Post
Why one guy using another DAW would purchase the full Reason package, just to use the VST rack and get rid of Reason ?? What is so exceptional in REs that you would purchase this package just to get a VST rack container to play REs in Cubase ?? One could spend his money in VSTs directly rather than purchasing the rack to use REs which are not so exceptional, only few of them are at the level of best in class AU/VST instruments or plugins in the market. And the biggest editors don't develop anymore for the RE format, why would they invest in RE while VST is available in Reason with minor constraints ? I hope the Props know what they do...
Anyway I am an happy Reason owner since V4, I am on V10 now, it's a unique creative tool, but I wish they would enrich the DAW with more improvements in V11, I don't care about the rack, give me Recycle in Reason, we can already sample internally so why in 2019 can't we create Rex files directly in Reason o nthe fly, that would be a game changer...
I don’t know if buying Reason just to use its rack in another DAW will appeal to new users, but as a longtime Reason user (since the public beta before 1.0) I can tell you why I’m personally excited about it. What’s special about the rack is the way you can freely connect audio and CV cables between devices in ways that are simply not possible with VSTs. Imagine if all your VSTs could talk to each other instead of being trapped in their own silos.

Have you ever wished you could use a step sequencer to program the filter cutoff on a synth that doesn’t have that capability? In Reason you can do that with any device that has a filter.

How about using an arpeggiator to play notes on two synths and a sampler, routing all of those devices to a filter, then triggering the envelope on that filter with the same arpeggiator?

But wait…what if you want to control a parameter that doesn’t have a CV input on the back panel? Just put it in a Combinator. It can take control sources and route them to pretty much any parameter in any device.

Some modern synths like Massive X have a huge set of tools like advanced LFOs, envelopes, and patterns that can control any parameter, and that’s cool too, but with the Reason rack you can combine the unique character of all kinds of different devices in any way you want. It’s a big, open playground. Think “software Eurorack with unlimited modules”. You can even save the whole thing as a Combinator patch and use it in any other project with one click. Not only can you do basically anything you want, it’s extremely easy (and I would even say it’s fun) to hook everything up.

If none of that sounds like fun to you, there’s still a lot of instruments and effects that only exist in Reason, like Parsec, Complex-1, Thor, Dr. Octorex, and Grain. If you don’t care about any of those, and you don’t want to do creative sound design by combining different devices, then yeah, just stick with VSTs. But since you already have Reason, I think you should give it a try. You might just like it.
Old 7th September 2019
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monacos View Post
Why one guy using another DAW would purchase the full Reason package, just to use the VST rack and get rid of Reason ?? What is so exceptional in REs that you would purchase this package just to get a VST rack container to play REs in Cubase ?? One could spend his money in VSTs directly rather than purchasing the rack to use REs which are not so exceptional, only few of them are at the level of best in class AU/VST instruments or plugins in the market. And the biggest editors don't develop anymore for the RE format, why would they invest in RE while VST is available in Reason with minor constraints ? I hope the Props know what they do...
Anyway I am an happy Reason owner since V4, I am on V10 now, it's a unique creative tool, but I wish they would enrich the DAW with more improvements in V11, I don't care about the rack, give me Recycle in Reason, we can already sample internally so why in 2019 can't we create Rex files directly in Reason o nthe fly, that would be a game changer...
Well friend its not just about the Re's. That person could use refills which are very goid these days. You need no license or ilok to use them. Refills are the only format that you can have the original sounds from any keyboard in the world, put into a refill. So if l got a Virus Ti l could put those sounds into a refill, load them into my rack and do some thangs. Do you actually know how sick the combinator is? If l had Cubase l would love just the rack even if l don't want the whole of Reason. And the other factors.

I have Reason 10, but have Studio One also . l'll it aagain, if you're a producer know at least 2 or 3 DAWs.
Old 14th September 2019
  #33
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
I don’t know if buying Reason just to use its rack in another DAW will appeal to new users, but as a longtime Reason user (since the public beta before 1.0) I can tell you why I’m personally excited about it. What’s special about the rack is the way you can freely connect audio and CV cables between devices in ways that are simply not possible with VSTs. Imagine if all your VSTs could talk to each other instead of being trapped in their own silos.

Have you ever wished you could use a step sequencer to program the filter cutoff on a synth that doesn’t have that capability? In Reason you can do that with any device that has a filter.

How about using an arpeggiator to play notes on two synths and a sampler, routing all of those devices to a filter, then triggering the envelope on that filter with the same arpeggiator?

But wait…what if you want to control a parameter that doesn’t have a CV input on the back panel? Just put it in a Combinator. It can take control sources and route them to pretty much any parameter in any device.

Some modern synths like Massive X have a huge set of tools like advanced LFOs, envelopes, and patterns that can control any parameter, and that’s cool too, but with the Reason rack you can combine the unique character of all kinds of different devices in any way you want. It’s a big, open playground. Think “software Eurorack with unlimited modules”. You can even save the whole thing as a Combinator patch and use it in any other project with one click. Not only can you do basically anything you want, it’s extremely easy (and I would even say it’s fun) to hook everything up.

If none of that sounds like fun to you, there’s still a lot of instruments and effects that only exist in Reason, like Parsec, Complex-1, Thor, Dr. Octorex, and Grain. If you don’t care about any of those, and you don’t want to do creative sound design by combining different devices, then yeah, just stick with VSTs. But since you already have Reason, I think you should give it a try. You might just like it.
It's not clear so far about what can be routed from the rack to the DAW, for sure no midi (it has beeb confirmed) which is a shame, but I doubt you can transmit CV's. In the rack, anyway we will see when they will release more details
Old 14th September 2019
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monacos View Post
It's not clear so far about what can be routed from the rack to the DAW, for sure no midi (it has beeb confirmed) which is a shame, but I doubt you can transmit CV's. In the rack, anyway we will see when they will release more details
I got access to the beta last week, so I can confirm some of the details.
  • It supports stereo audio input, and an additional sidechain input.
  • There’s only a single MIDI input for each rack plugin, so you wouldn’t have all of your Reason devices in a single rack. There’s no way to assign different MIDI channels to individual devices.
  • There’s an effect version that can be used as an insert or return effect.
  • It has lots of audio outputs (either 16 or 32…can’t remember, but either way it’s more than enough). You receive these in your DAW the same way as any other multichannel plugin.
  • There is no MIDI output. I don’t know about other DAWs, but Logic and Ableton Live have no way to receive MIDI from a plugin and route it to another plugin, so it seems like there’s no way for the rack plugin to provide MIDI output even if they wanted it to.
  • There is obviously no CV output, but there might be some way to use the audio outputs as CV, if you have any way to convert it back to a control signal in whatever other plugin you route it to. That might be a fun experiment but doesn’t seem worth the effort for any practical purpose anyway.

Basically, think of the rack plugin as either a single instrument or effect, each of which can contain as many Reason devices as you want. To create multiple Reason-based instruments or effects, you’d insert multiple instances of the plugin.

I would have liked to see something more like the Maschine VST, where all of your stuff is contained in a single plugin instance, but I guess that would present other challenges.
Old 15th September 2019
  #35
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How l plan to use the Suite is directly in Reason. Plus use it in S1v4.

If l van use the Redrum or Drum Sequencer in S1v4 and after l make a drum pattern am able to right click and copy pttern to track its a done deal! Those two devices ate great to me because my drums will automatically be put on the grid. S1v4 sequencer is not as tight as Rrason's sequencer. Or l could just use my MPC Live either way l'm good.
Old 15th September 2019
  #36
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
I got access to the beta last week, so I can confirm some of the details.

Basically, think of the rack plugin as either a single instrument or effect, each of which can contain as many Reason devices as you want. To create multiple Reason-based instruments or effects, you’d insert multiple instances of the plugin.

I would have liked to see something more like the Maschine VST, where all of your stuff is contained in a single plugin instance, but I guess that would present other challenges.
Txs for the info, looks good
Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
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Bilb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
I got access to the beta last week, so I can confirm some of the details.
  • It supports stereo audio input, and an additional sidechain input.
  • There’s only a single MIDI input for each rack plugin, so you wouldn’t have all of your Reason devices in a single rack. There’s no way to assign different MIDI channels to individual devices.
  • There’s an effect version that can be used as an insert or return effect.
  • It has lots of audio outputs (either 16 or 32…can’t remember, but either way it’s more than enough). You receive these in your DAW the same way as any other multichannel plugin.
  • There is no MIDI output. I don’t know about other DAWs, but Logic and Ableton Live have no way to receive MIDI from a plugin and route it to another plugin, so it seems like there’s no way for the rack plugin to provide MIDI output even if they wanted it to.
  • There is obviously no CV output, but there might be some way to use the audio outputs as CV, if you have any way to convert it back to a control signal in whatever other plugin you route it to. That might be a fun experiment but doesn’t seem worth the effort for any practical purpose anyway.

Basically, think of the rack plugin as either a single instrument or effect, each of which can contain as many Reason devices as you want. To create multiple Reason-based instruments or effects, you’d insert multiple instances of the plugin.

I would have liked to see something more like the Maschine VST, where all of your stuff is contained in a single plugin instance, but I guess that would present other challenges.
To use two instruments in the same VST rack playing separate notes (for whatever reason), couldn't you just put them both in a combinator and split the keyboard?

Hopefully someone comes up with some nice M4L trickery to get CVs out for deeper integration. I expect midi just isn't possible but would be nice to be proven wrong on that.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilb View Post
To use two instruments in the same VST rack playing separate notes (for whatever reason), couldn't you just put them both in a combinator and split the keyboard?

Hopefully someone comes up with some nice M4L trickery to get CVs out for deeper integration. I expect midi just isn't possible but would be nice to be proven wrong on that.
Yeah you can do that, but it’s pretty limited. That’s not really the ideal solution.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
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Bilb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Yeah you can do that, but it’s pretty limited. That’s not really the ideal solution.
Aye, going further I suppose you can mess around with octave settings to keep them in the same range despite one being played higher up on the keyboard, and even do midi transposition between the DAW note source and the VST rack so that playing C1 on each synth still plays C1 - e.g. in Ableton have two midi tracks both routed to the same VST, have a midi effect transposing one of them up by 3 octaves, and then within the VST rack have one synth in the combinator only respond to the top half of the keyboard and pitched down 3 octaves. That way you can do all your CV cross modulating etc between the two as required, while both are playing completely separate midi clips, and outputing to separate channels if needed.


Definitely agree that it's not the ideal solution but in theory there's still plenty that you can do if you really need. Hopefully more advanced inbuilt solutions are in the works.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilb View Post
Definitely agree that it's not the ideal solution but in theory there's still plenty that you can do if you really need. Hopefully more advanced inbuilt solutions are in the works.
Yeah this is just the first version. For now, at least we can use Reason's synths and effects without having to deal with ReWire.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
Lives for gear
 
lagavulin16's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monacos View Post
Why one guy using another DAW would purchase the full Reason package, just to use the VST rack and get rid of Reason ?? What is so exceptional in REs that you would purchase this package just to get a VST rack container to play REs in Cubase ?? One could spend his money in VSTs directly rather than purchasing the rack to use REs which are not so exceptional, only few of them are at the level of best in class AU/VST instruments or plugins in the market. And the biggest editors don't develop anymore for the RE format, why would they invest in RE while VST is available in Reason with minor constraints ? I hope the Props know what they do...
Anyway I am an happy Reason owner since V4, I am on V10 now, it's a unique creative tool, but I wish they would enrich the DAW with more improvements in V11, I don't care about the rack, give me Recycle in Reason, we can already sample internally so why in 2019 can't we create Rex files directly in Reason o nthe fly, that would be a game changer...
I have spent 10 years looking for a reverb plugin that does what RV7000 does (specifically the reverse reverb options). I never found one that came close. I will buy it for that alone, and everything else is just gravy.

Been wanting Reason to do this forever!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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Stormchild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
I have spent 10 years looking for a reverb plugin that does what RV7000 does (specifically the reverse reverb options). I never found one that came close. I will buy it for that alone, and everything else is just gravy.

Been wanting Reason to do this forever!
I agree…the RV7000 is a real gem. It also uses way less CPU than most other reverb plugins.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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Today is that day , Reason 11 is out and ready to down load.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave east View Post
Today is that day , Reason 11 is out and ready to down load.
Has anyone found a deal/discount anywhere? Even a 10 or 20% off coupon would be helpful, just don't see one from the usual suspects.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
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Bilb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lagavulin16 View Post
Has anyone found a deal/discount anywhere? Even a 10 or 20% off coupon would be helpful, just don't see one from the usual suspects.
Will probably have to wait till black friday I guess. I'm in no urgent need so gonna wait till then.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave east View Post
Today is that day , Reason 11 is out and ready to down load.
Loving the suite version so far!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Loving the suite version so far!!
The new Scenic instrument has some nice sounds. I like the Sweeper effect too. And obviously the rack plugin is huge. Been using it in Ableton Live. Looking forward to the AU version so I can bring it into Logic as well.

There's also lots of good stuff in Suite that I hadn't bought separately before, like the Quad Note Generator and Polystep Sequencer (which I thought were a little overpriced).

The Suite version is a really nice upgrade, especially if you haven't bought most of the included rack extensions already. Alas I had already bought most of the Propellerhead ones, but it was still worth it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #48
Gear Head
I was ready to upgrade from version 10 mostly because I was excited about the possibilities of using the Reason Player devices within Ableton. Now I hear those won't work because the Rack VST doesn't have MIDI out. Guess I'll be waiting.

And for those that say Ableton doesn't support MIDI out from plugins, I think that's wrong because I've used VSTs like MelodicFlow, Captain Chords and Scaler and routed the MIDI output to external and internal devices.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post
Bear in mind you won't be able to load VSTs in the Reason Rack Plugin. Only the full Reason app can load VSTs.
which perfectly makes sense IMO
Old 3 weeks ago
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Loving the suite version so far!!
Me too. OMG l've been waiting for this a while.
Scenic
is like a baby Omnisphere.

Im loving this.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Bechara View Post
which perfectly makes sense IMO
It would actually be nice if you could, since you might want to control VSTs with Reason’s player devices or the Matrix sequencer, or use VST instruments and effects in combination with Reason devices. There’s no technical reason why it can’t load VSTs. Maschine does, even when loaded as a plugin.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #52
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Bilb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilb View Post
Will probably have to wait till black friday I guess. I'm in no urgent need so gonna wait till then.
Should have known at the time that I was only lying to myself... caved over the weekend and upgraded to the Suite (I owned zero of Props' REs so was a pretty decent buy for me) and am loving having it embedded in Ableton which I bought a few weeks back and am still getting to grips with. Especially enjoying finally having access to the drum sequencer player (I missed the window when it was free) and Umpf seems pretty decent too. Not delved far into all the new synths just yet.

What I wasn't too enamoured with was the non-immediacy of automating VST parameters in Ableton compared to Reason standalone (drum sequencer channel mutes and pattern switching was the first example for me), as well as the weird behaviour of Ableton's drum rack when you want it to send all the pads to the same chain - yes you can do it by setting Receive Notes to All but the pads lose their play buttons so you can't click to send note data! Sometimes you just want to quickly click and hear the drum hits and you don't always have your VST windows open...

So, to get around all of this, I've made a few templates which should make my Kong/Umpf workflow quicker, and yours too if you're interested:

I made some Reason Rack instrument racks with drum sequencers and either Kong or Umpf with the 8 macros pre-routed to DS's channel mutes, for quicker recording of channel mute automation. As this uses up all 8 macros I ran out of space to map one to the pattern number, but this led me to instead come up with a pre-automated solution using the Max for Live LFO tool - I mapped a square wave LFO to the pattern number parameter so that when the LFO is turned on (it's off by default) it automatically switches between patterns 1 and 2 every bar. I then mapped a second LFO to the offset of the first so that when both are activated, the pattern moves through 1-2-3-4 automatically. 32 and 64 step DS patterns at the press of a button! Obviously long patterns are much easier to achieve in Ableton's own clip sequencer but that doesn't have hit probabilities, polymeters, drawable velocity and ratchet/flam programming etc. The LFOs seem to lag a tiny bit but for me it's a decent enough workaround for quickly sketching longer patterns. Of course pattern chaining can be achieved entirely in the Reason rack by putting the DS in a combinator, hooking up a pulsar to CV in 1, and routing that to the DS's pattern number (template also attached), but my real aim here was to increase control of the Reason Rack from Ableton itself.

As for the drum rack hits, this is only a minor bugbear but I found it pretty strange how un-straightforward it is to play a VST drumkit by clicking on a drum rack's pads (without copying 16 instances of the same VST which obviously is far from ideal when using a Reason rack). When you set a chain to receive all notes, the play buttons in the rack disappear, and even if you create a blank chain on a pad to bring the play button back, the button still doesn't send any midi to the "all" chain. Thankfully, I found a pair of M4L devices called Midi Router and Midi Receiver, these allows you to create 16 separate chains in a drum rack with their own Midi Router, each sending note data when triggered to a Midi Receiver on the Reason Rack chain. Long story short, with a lot of copying and pasting I got 16 clickable drum rack pads sending notes to the Reason rack (if I'm just being thick and there's a quicker way of doing this in Ableton, please let me know - it's still fairly new to me!)

To top it all off, in the instrument racks I routed as many individual drums to separate Reason Rack VST outputs as I could (8 for Kong as it only has that many stereo outs despite the 16 pads) so you can process each drum channel separately in Ableton. By default all of the additional outs are routed to the main out, but just click the red buttons on the I/O panel to break them out to their own channels.


TL:DR see attached for some possibly useful workflow racks for Reason' Drum Sequencer/Kong/Umpf Club in Ableton. Enjoy!
Attached Files
File Type: zip Instrument Racks.zip (246.0 KB, 3 views) File Type: zip Drum Racks.zip (441.7 KB, 3 views) File Type: zip DrumSeq Internal Chaining.zip (66.5 KB, 3 views)
Old 1 week ago
  #53
Gear Addict
 

i AM loving Reason period. It never fails where people get a product and ask for me, it should be have this, and that. As soon as they put VSTs in the Rack, people are going to want more and more and not work with what they have already. This was the best Upgrade for Reason Studios. Use Reason with its Rack and you can use VSTi's within the Combinator and other Reason pieces like Thor, Malstrom etc.
Old 5 days ago
  #54
I must confess I've not used my Logic license much - and despite Apple taking over and lowering the prices overall, I wasn't so happy having to purchase an entirely new license in order to ... "upgrade"... so I am still on Logic Pro and macOS Sierra at least on this "mostly used music partition". Reason 11 runs fine here but I was wondering if the AU / .component version will run fine on Logic Pro when it's released? I just started Logic and saw it's a 32 bit app. Anyway, interesting to know! Anyone?
Old 1 hour ago
  #55
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitleyTM View Post
I must confess I've not used my Logic license much - and despite Apple taking over and lowering the prices overall, I wasn't so happy having to purchase an entirely new license in order to ... "upgrade"... so I am still on Logic Pro and macOS Sierra at least on this "mostly used music partition". Reason 11 runs fine here but I was wondering if the AU / .component version will run fine on Logic Pro when it's released? I just started Logic and saw it's a 32 bit app. Anyway, interesting to know! Anyone?
We won't know until it comes out. But so far Reason Studios has been on their job. I have the R11 Suite and it's running like a charm in Studio One 4.5.1. I will never mess with Mac in my home studio again. To much of a problem for me. But Reason Studios is doing it big right now.
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