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Introducing the fabolous TLM67/U87 to U67 mod Condenser Microphones
Old 24th June 2018
  #1051
Gear Maniac
quick question , does the supplied powersupply match the reissue specs? and would this effect the microphones sound?
Old 24th June 2018
  #1052
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpc3kle View Post
quick question , does the supplied powersupply match the reissue specs? and would this effect the microphones sound?
It does match.
My tech was suggesting building a point-to-point supply as the Chinese supply must surely be wrong somewhere. It’s bang on. Correct voltages.

We’ve been building a couple of other microphone prototypes & we’ve been trialling different power supply designs. Some (older topologies) can make things sound very slightly softer or slower but same frequency response.
Old 25th June 2018
  #1053
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo View Post
So after all the furios talk against the messengers, you are still confronted with reality:

A new Neumann U67 "clone" that deviates 6-8dB from top to bottom to a new Neumann U67 and slightly less from 50 year old ones.

The Hyundai you bought as a BMW clone does indeed get you from A to B just like a BMW does. Good for you. And it is also built by the schematic four wheels and a motor. Good for you. Bad for you: There will still always be people who gonna remind you: It ain´t remotely the same as a BMW, no matter how hard you try to proclaim it as one, just because it can bring you from A to B on four wheels.

Have fun with your Hyundais!
If you had any respect for yourself, you would put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger.
Old 25th June 2018
  #1054
Guys, please do not feed the troll(s). It doesn’t make the derailing stop, it only makes it worse. I admire the patience all of you have but I think beeing reasonable is just putting more wood on the fire.
Old 25th June 2018
  #1055
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Guys,
I am tired of the thread. I made my points and stand by them, they make logical sense to me and others with similar experiences. However it is not my intention to hurt anyone´s business even if I disagree with some of the claims being made. So after one week of intense public disagreements, I will delete my posts here so this mudfight does not last in the internet forever for potential customers to see.
If you all want to support Max, please do not try and relight my fire. I wish him the best. Let´s leave it at that and make some music. Cheers.
Old 25th June 2018
  #1056
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

That’s because im being quoted and some of you feel the need to keep calling my name. I never once dogged the mic, but I 1,000% stand by everything I said. I’m gaining more insight outside this thread about the mod, while there’s nothing here at the moment that is helping me achieve what I wanted to achieve. y’all can keep going, but leave me out of it

Last edited by IkennaFuNkEn; 25th June 2018 at 10:44 AM..
Old 26th June 2018
  #1057
Gear Nut
 

When I read this thread I have to shake my head....

You could just send the mod kit back and Max will refund.
So why all this nonsense here?

Modding a mod with old neumann parts
bought on ebay?
LOL!

I got the mod for my TLM67 last year and love it!
It takes EQ pretty well!
Old 26th June 2018
  #1058
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_ga View Post
Modding a mod with old neumann parts
bought on ebay?
LOL!
If I had one and observed what IkennaFuNkEn is hearing, it is the first thing I would do. Why not? Seems like a no brainer. Unless I had the cash for the reissue. I don't think his pursuit so unreasonable. I just think his style of communicating is a bit abrasive, but why not try to get it "right" if you're belief is that it isn't quite?

Last edited by Piedpiper; 26th June 2018 at 11:34 PM..
Old 26th June 2018
  #1059
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Campbell View Post
I'll say it again. I do not see this 8 db 'tilt' you keep talking about.
I will try to post some comparisons (actual response measurements) here next month.
I hope you don't bother to check back because both you and Ikennafunken seem to twist and/or misquote what has been said here and in other threads.
I do not know why you keep coming here and pi$$ing all over this mic.
I have the mod and I actually love the darkness for drum recording. Now my studio partner has recently bought 2 Reissue U67s. So out of curiosity I could compare with these. But how would one go about making a measurement? Do I just record a sweep in the control room. I have decent speakers ATC45 and Amphion one18. Plus a well treated room. Any free software to get the impulse response?
Old 26th June 2018
  #1060
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
If I had one and observed what IkennaFuNkEn is hearing, it is the first thing I would do. Why not? Seems like a no brainer. Unless I had the cash for the reissue. I don't his pursuit so unreasonable. I just think his style of communicating is a bit abrasive, but why not try to get it "right" if you're belief is that it isn't quite?
The transformer is brand new from neumann. Shipped from Germany to sennheiser. From sennheiser neumann to me before we go on a quest For where the transformer came from and what warehouse lol. There has to be over 10 posts saying I like the mod. My responses will always be that way to the usual suspects who don’t read my posts and somehow come to their own conclusions about my intentions based solely on insecurities. Not here to coddle anyone, and I think that speaks on how serious I am about it. The mod is something I bought because I think it’s the closest Ive heard, but I don’t agree it’s all the way at all and for the price i think it’s worth keeping to make it better. I’m not going from a tlm67 to the mod, if you are It will be a killer deal for you, and I’m not surprised by some tlm67 owners who are confused as to why there is any negative talk about the mod. But if you’ve used u67s for years, you’ll notice the difference. For me it has nothing to do with it being dark. For some, it’s acceptable. for others, it’s obviously not. I actually prefer a u87 in more cases as I’ve learned the mics over the years, but in some special cases where I’d use the 67, there’s no faking it. For those special cases, I’m working to get the mod there. I agree with Flo again, I don’t want to take food away from Max’s mouth, that would be the last thing I want. I also believe this is a thread and I don’t filter my true thoughts on the mods because I’m not used to a thread being used as a commercial space. I think everyone has the right to say what they truly feel in this space provided by gearslutz, especially people who have tried, tested, paid for whatever it is we are discussing. this is the fundamental difference in schools of thought here. The longer we become defensive and throw mud, the longer this looks bad for the product we’re talking about and an increasing need to unnecessarily defend it, and so forth. Go back some pages read my posts, or pm me if you have any questions. If it’s working for you great!

Last edited by IkennaFuNkEn; 27th June 2018 at 12:01 AM..
Old 26th June 2018
  #1061
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IkennaFuNkEn View Post
The transformer is brand new from neumann. Shipped from Germany to sennheiser. From sennheiser neumann to me. There has to be over 10 posts saying I like the mod, and it’s not unreasonable to achieve what I want to achieve. My responses will always be that way to the usual suspects who don’t read my posts and somehow come to their own conclusions about my intentions based solely on insecurities. Not here to coddle anyone, and I think that speaks on how serious I am about it. The mod is something I bought because I think it’s the closest Ive heard, but I don’t agree it’s all the way at all and for the price i think it’s worth keeping to make it better. I’m not going from a tlm67 to the mod, if you are It will be a killer deal for you, and I’m not surprised by some who are confused as to why there is any negative talk about the mod. But if you’ve used u67s for years, you’ll notice the difference. For me it has nothing to do with it being dark. For some, it’s acceptable. for others, it’s obviously not. I actually prefer a u87 in more cases as I’ve learned the mics over the years, but in some special cases where I’d use the 67, there’s no faking it. For those special cases, I’m working to get the mod there. I agree with Flo again, I don’t want to take food away from Max’s mouth, that would be the last thing I want. I also believe this is a thread and I don’t filter my true thoughts on the mods because I’m not used to a thread being used as a commercial space. I think everyone has the right to say what they truly feel in this space provided by gearslutz, especially people who have tried, tested, paid for whatever it is we are discussing. this is the fundamental difference in schools of thought here. The longer we become defensive and throw mud, the longer this looks bad for the product we’re talking about and an increasing need to unnecessarily defend it, and so forth. Go back some pages read my posts, or pm me if you have any questions. If it’s working for you great! There’s no need to bring me up
Not sure who you're talking to here. I was defending your stance. Personal styles are just that, personal. Some will take offense. It then becomes more about that. Separate issues.
Old 26th June 2018
  #1062
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Not sure who you're talking to here. I was defending your stance. Personal styles are just that, personal. Some will take offense. It then becomes more about that. Separate issues.
Ohh, I thought the quote would collapse lol! and you meant “why not return it.” I see. My bad. I specifically wanted to stay away from vintage transformers to mitigate the affect of age. That’s why I bought the new one. More so to the guy above you. I don’t know how to double quote in one go. Yeah can’t go back to debating who flung the first mud, but man is it frustrating to constantly have to repeat praise for the product before getting to what you really want to address... it becomes a little ridiculous around here.
Old 6th July 2018
  #1063
Here for the gear
 

Sounds really good

The Max Mod is amazing. Mine is paired with a U87ai and the combo takes to EQ really well. Some say its too dark, but I say it all depends what you are comparing it to. I like how the mod cuts out sibilance and harsh frequencies at the top and allows you to tonally shape the sound. Mine is fitted with the Telefunken EF. Here is a song that I recorded with the mic.

Spotify Web Player - Alone - Lapo
Old 6th July 2018
  #1064
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapo View Post
The Max Mod is amazing. Mine is paired with a U87ai and the combo takes to EQ really well. Some say its too dark, but I say it all depends what you are comparing it to. I like how the mod cuts out sibilance and harsh frequencies at the top and allows you to tonally shape the sound. Mine is fitted with the Telefunken EF. Here is a song that I recorded with the mic.

Spotify Web Player - Alone - Lapo


Nice!! Very smooth sounding.
Old 6th July 2018
  #1065
Lives for gear
 
roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapo View Post
The Max Mod is amazing. Mine is paired with a U87ai and the combo takes to EQ really well. Some say its too dark, but I say it all depends what you are comparing it to. I like how the mod cuts out sibilance and harsh frequencies at the top and allows you to tonally shape the sound. Mine is fitted with the Telefunken EF. Here is a song that I recorded with the mic.

Spotify Web Player - Alone - Lapo
I hear an 8db tilt shift! That makes 7/7.
Jokes. Couldn’t help it!
Sounds great dude!
Old 7th July 2018
  #1066
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
I hear an 8db tilt shift! That makes 7/7.
Jokes. Couldn’t help it!
Sounds great dude!
3+ up in the lows, 4 down in the highs, the distance of the shelf amplitude is approximately 8db compared to an un-modified u67
Old 7th July 2018
  #1067
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IkennaFuNkEn View Post
3+ up in the lows, 4 down in the highs, the distance of the shelf amplitude is approximately 8db compared to an un-modified u67
Lol
Old 7th July 2018
  #1068
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
Lol
You tried
Old 8th July 2018
  #1069
Gear Addict
 
ioaudio's Avatar
 

Thank you everyone, this batch is now sold out.
I will have more available late August/early September.

-Max
Old 8th July 2018
  #1070
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ioaudio View Post
Thank you everyone, this batch is now sold out.
I will have more available late August/early September.

-Max
Is there a down payment needed to get one of these?
Old 9th July 2018
  #1071
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Campbell
Hey setting all the crazy stuff aside, I was wondering how you made out getting the Neumann transformer installed in your MK67?
As of now no tech is confidently able to figure it out because they say it does not match the original u67 schematics. Max hasn’t replied to one of my techs request for his mk67 schematics. Which he of course he reserves the right. He did give some info, but wasn’t pertinent to the swap. I know of a guy who did it successfully. Waiting on a reply from him. I’ll let you know when I get more info.
Old 9th July 2018
  #1072
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emrr's Avatar
Uhh, it does match the Neumann schematics exactly. There is no alternate schematic to provide because it's the same. As Max said, the shield leads come out two extra places, and if you look at the solder pads you can tell the extra leads don't go anywhere.

You could say the transformer layout doesn't match, because it's terminals rather than wired leads, but that's purely physical. It's quite simple to suss out with a meter and some basic tracing skills.

Or perhaps you mean the overall physical layout? Most of that is exact too, much to the point you could swap Max's boards with Neumann boards. I don't know that there's an official Neumann layout out there for reference either. Not that any competent tech would need it.

The bigger question: what does it take to fit an alternate in there? The size has to be pretty similar, practically exact, given the tight space, and the PCB sandwich around the transformer. I agree with Max that a transplant is not recommended for the majority, in that it's not for beginners or even moderately experienced solder jockeys, especially if there are real physical differences to accommodate.


One point missed here, and you certainly have the right to not care at all, is this started as a DIY product which cost about half what the finished product costs now. Essentially the circuit board and parts to hack a U87AI into a U67 with a lot of soldering and mechanical assembly. It was not speed swappable, unless you also bought $350 worth of spare metal parts from Neumann. That's an amazing value transformation over time. I'd much rather buy the finished product built from Max's experienced hands over dealing with all the intricacies and time of assembling that sucker from a pile of parts....and I build/service/restore a LOT of audio gear. If you go study the Chunger build documents, you might agree. You coulda chased the same dream with a lot of sweat equity and been even more happy/dissatisfied. This thing is only seen as a possible bastard stepchild now that there's a handful of competitors for the transformer and the overall circuit, when it was released it was the only one.

Last edited by emrr; 17th July 2018 at 03:07 AM..
Old 9th July 2018
  #1073
Lives for gear
 
IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
Uhh, it does match the Neumann schematics exactly. There is no alternate schematic to provide because it's the same. As Max said, the shield leads come out two extra places, and if you look at the solder pads you can tell the extra leads don't go anywhere.

You could say the transformer layout doesn't match, because it's terminals rather than wired leads, but that's purely physical. It's quite simple to suss out with a meter and some basic tracing skills.

Or perhaps you mean the overall physical layout? Most of that is exact too, much to the point you could swap Max's boards with Neumann boards. I don't know that there's an official Neumann layout out there for reference either. Not that any competent tech would need it.

The bigger question: what does it take to fit an alternate in there? The size has to be pretty similar, practically exact, given the tight space, and the PCB sandwich around the transformer. I agree with Max that a transplant is not recommended for the majority, in that it's not for beginners or even moderately experienced solder jockeys, especially if there are real physical differences to accommodate.


One point missed here, and you certainly have the right to not care at all, is this started as a DIY product which cost about half what the finished product costs now. Essentially the circuit board and parts to hack a U87AI into a U67 with a lot of soldering and mechanical assembly. It was not speed swappable, unless you also bought a couple hundred dollars worth of spare metal parts from Neumann. That's an amazing value transformation over time. I'd much rather buy the finished product built from Max's experienced hands over dealing with all the intricacies and time of assembling that sucker from a pile of parts....and I build/service/restore a LOT of audio gear. If you go study the Chunger build documents, you might agree. You coulda chased the same dream with a lot of sweat equity and been even more happy/dissatisfied. This thing is only seen as a possible bastard stepchild now that there's a handful of competitors for the transformer and the overall circuit, when it was released it was the only one.
Thanks a lot man! It’s been weeks, and he’s been trying to figure it out. He’s not a mic tech but they said they’ve swapped out transformers before. I’ll relay this information.
Old 9th July 2018
  #1074
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IkennaFuNkEn's Avatar
 

It seems at this point he’s a little bit inexperienced with u67 transformers, so yeah I do understand why the swap is not recommended. He’s trying to figure out orientation as well, and which color wire goes where on the board because he says “it doesn’t match.” I have the reissue transformer, and I’ve never seen a vintage transformer. Apparently they don’t have the same wire colors. Maybe I’ll look for a different tech who is more confident. I think their excitement for the best of them
Old 9th July 2018
  #1075
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Nice when someone who actually knows what they're talking about puts it all in perspective. Would that all thread tangents were reduced to such answers.
Old 12th July 2018
  #1076
Here for the gear
So I was one of the minority who was having the "bass tilt" issue and wanted to chime in now because in my case I believe I found a solution and the mic mod now sounds great.

I got the Max mod, quickly checked it with the PF86, and then put in a NOS Telefunken EF86 that I got for the occasion. Then I started having issues with too much low end and too little top. Not like a 2db of eq issue but more like 6db. Had to get turn the 12k on the 1073 halfway up and cut low mids significantly to sound normal. Compared it to another nice U67 build I had from Signal Arts and also a friend's U67 and it was considerably different. The tube spec'd out ok when tested, but the mic sounded a bit out of whack. Tried checking connection issues, etc. etc. I got generally frustrated with it and didn't see a solution other than using more eq than you should have to, so I put the original TLM electronics back in and forgot about it for while.

Tonight I figured I'd another tube a try and put in a Valvo EF86. "Bass tilt" issue gone! Now it's just "a little darker", like the next notch on the top end eq and sounds great.

So I guess moral of my tale is, if you're having low end issues try a few tubes and also for whatever reason a Tele EF86 might not be the best match for this particular build (or maybe the Tele EF86 needs to be within a certain tolerance). The tube seemed to make way more of an EQ difference than you would usually expect from just a tube of the same type. Hope this helps someone if they feel they're having an issue.
Old 12th July 2018
  #1077
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfic View Post
So I was one of the minority who was having the "bass tilt" issue and wanted to chime in now because in my case I believe I found a solution and the mic mod now sounds great.

I got the Max mod, quickly checked it with the PF86, and then put in a NOS Telefunken EF86 that I got for the occasion. Then I started having issues with too much low end and too little top. Not like a 2db of eq issue but more like 6db. Had to get turn the 12k on the 1073 halfway up and cut low mids significantly to sound normal. Compared it to another nice U67 build I had from Signal Arts and also a friend's U67 and it was considerably different. The tube spec'd out ok when tested, but the mic sounded a bit out of whack. Tried checking connection issues, etc. etc. I got generally frustrated with it and didn't see a solution other than using more eq than you should have to, so I put the original TLM electronics back in and forgot about it for while.

Tonight I figured I'd another tube a try and put in a Valvo EF86. "Bass tilt" issue gone! Now it's just "a little darker", like the next notch on the top end eq and sounds great.

So I guess moral of my tale is, if you're having low end issues try a few tubes and also for whatever reason a Tele EF86 might not be the best match for this particular build (or maybe the Tele EF86 needs to be within a certain tolerance). The tube seemed to make way more of an EQ difference than you would usually expect from just a tube of the same type. Hope this helps someone if they feel they're having an issue.
How do you feel about the Signal Art U67?
Did you compare it with your friends U67?
Old 12th July 2018
  #1078
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfic View Post
So I was one of the minority who was having the "bass tilt" issue and wanted to chime in now because in my case I believe I found a solution and the mic mod now sounds great.

I got the Max mod, quickly checked it with the PF86, and then put in a NOS Telefunken EF86 that I got for the occasion. Then I started having issues with too much low end and too little top. Not like a 2db of eq issue but more like 6db. Had to get turn the 12k on the 1073 halfway up and cut low mids significantly to sound normal. Compared it to another nice U67 build I had from Signal Arts and also a friend's U67 and it was considerably different. The tube spec'd out ok when tested, but the mic sounded a bit out of whack. Tried checking connection issues, etc. etc. I got generally frustrated with it and didn't see a solution other than using more eq than you should have to, so I put the original TLM electronics back in and forgot about it for while.

Tonight I figured I'd another tube a try and put in a Valvo EF86. "Bass tilt" issue gone! Now it's just "a little darker", like the next notch on the top end eq and sounds great.

So I guess moral of my tale is, if you're having low end issues try a few tubes and also for whatever reason a Tele EF86 might not be the best match for this particular build (or maybe the Tele EF86 needs to be within a certain tolerance). The tube seemed to make way more of an EQ difference than you would usually expect from just a tube of the same type. Hope this helps someone if they feel they're having an issue.

Now try it with a Mullard! Different again!
Old 12th July 2018
  #1079
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emrr's Avatar
Yes, the tube type really shows it's personality in a U67 circuit, more than any other circuit situation I've experienced.
Old 12th July 2018
  #1080
Here for the gear
Yeah I had a Mullard in the Signal Arts clone and didn't really dig it as much. Kind of murky. I expected the Tele to be good, but it was really out of whack. Tested ok and even wasn't as bad in the other mic so perhaps a combination of elements or whatever microphony it had didn't get along with the shell and made it really bassy. I don't know. Had some odd microphonic EF86 issues in the past. This was off the charts weird though and had the same extreme bass tilt eq issue that the others described, but it seems to be tube related in my case.

Has anyone tried the new Svetlana in the Max Mod? I'm thinking perhaps this might be the tube in the new reissue and when I tried it in the Signal Arts clone it was brighter and cleaner than the Valvo but also less 'complex'.

Last edited by mfic; 12th July 2018 at 08:04 PM..
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