The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Slate Digital Virtual Mix Rack and FREE Revival Plugin - Available NOW Dynamics Plugins
Old 8th December 2014
  #2251
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamestalus View Post
^This is the bottom line.
I feel bad for SS - people are never satisfied.
At the same time though you gotta separate people's attitudes from their critiques. And the day plugins have no critiques is the day we will stop improving them.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2252
Lives for gear
 
Agzilla's Avatar
 

It's not about surgical accuracy though is it? Do you consider a 1073 accurate? I thought vintage emulation was all about harmonics and saturation, transformers etc..

I must make it clear I love VMR and am a very satisfied customer, but if the numbers on the knobs are out and im still happy I MUST be relying on my ears..

Nevertheless, 500 on the graphic meaning the dial will boost 500 is ALWAYS going to be preferable to me..

The person suggesting numbers on the dial having a meaning and a purpose is for amateurs was obviously just not quite thinking about what they were typing or it came across wrong..?

Or else they're just....



Zz.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2253
Lives for gear
 
nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Corners were cut (using an xrack instead of a desk eq), showing the wrong frequencies affected and the bells are wrong. Regardless of all of the NLP victims those are undeniable measurable facts.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2254
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Still no early adopter coupon that works for me. And support not responding...........
Old 8th December 2014
  #2255
Lives for gear
 
iLex's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'm with you on all this stuff. Those are best practices that I'd like to see more developers follow. I'll even do you one better: for plugins that don't have an input gain on the hardware, but can distort when pushed, I'd also like a clean trim on input too. This will save me from having to do it elsewhere.
Yes, that one too!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
The one thing I'd question is #1 . Who decides what's a "flaw?" The people in this thread can't agree on whether it's a "flaw" or not that the FG-S center frequencies don't 100% match with what's written. I have no problem with it, and others do.
A flaw to me is something that you would assume the original makers of the original hardware would've fixed if they could. This is still a debatable area of course, but we can assume that wrong markings is a flaw (the word 'wrong' is a hint), regardless of whether or not it bothers people.
But I've been following the debate here too and I see the passion (and anger) with which people defend the wrong markings... so I will not mention it again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd prefer in this case that they kept it as is. Would it bother me if they "fixed" it? Probably not, but it wouldn't benefit me either. I don't think in terms of "oh I have mud at exactly 420hz," I think in, "oh, there's some mud in the low mids, let me start cutting there." I might even turn a knob to dial in on the sweet spot if I have the option, but it's not starting with me knowing the exact frequency to cut to get a perfect mix. When people say they are, I think two things: 1) they either have the most amazing ears ever, or 2) they heard/read somewhere that cutting or boosting at a given frequency is how you solve a particular problem and they're looking to replicate that without listening or just out of force of habit.
Some people do have pretty amazing ears....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Also, as someone already stated, "someone would A/B with their SSL Hardware and chastise Slate for the frequencies not even being close to the hardware." So Slate would be damned for deviating. In addition, it seems like the beta testers also preferred accuracy.
This, I think, is the main reason. As A/B testing has gotten more interesting than actually using the plugins I can't even blame Slate for it.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2256
Gear Nut
 
lsguru85's Avatar
This thread is soo looong, and I haven't fully read through the last couple of pages and maybe somebody already proposed an "FG-S improvement" like this:

Steven, could there be some simple option within FG-S so that we can switch between the original frequency markings (just the way you've modelled it) and the real/correct frequency markings?

That'd be a trade-off, and if somebody still wants to use original markings, they of course can, but if somebody is new to VMR, they will have the option to show the real/correct markings.

That would be great.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2257
Gear Addict
 
transverb's Avatar
 

Dear Isguru85... you're like my GS doppelganger... it has been suggested.

Due to time / money / desire to keep it as is, a note in the manual for those who don't read gearslutz or are not aware of the original SSL behaviour has been suggested as well. heh
Old 8th December 2014
  #2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by transverb View Post
Dear Isguru85... you're like my GS doppelganger... it has been suggested.

Due to time / money / desire to keep it as is, a note in the manual for those who don't read gearslutz or are not aware of the original SSL behaviour has been suggested as well. heh
Maybe just keep the graphic freq marks the same but make the readout when you turn the knob the accurate one, then you can use both at once and no need for an extra switch/option.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2259
Gear Nut
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens View Post
Maybe just keep the graphic freq marks the same but make the readout when you turn the knob the accurate one, then you can use both at once and no need for an extra switch/option.

Very good idea.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2260
Slate Pro Audio / Slate Digital
 
Steven Slate's Avatar
 

Folks, for decades audio engineers have used parametric eqs on thousands of consoles with frequency pots that were never exact. It's not just SSL, but really ANY console will have behavior that is similar if it's using frequency pots which are very difficult to get spot on. Now why didn't people complain about this for all these decades? Why didn't anyone have any issue using the FG-S the first 20 days it was out? Because there was no analyzer to reveal the truth, so people just used the tools and twisted the knobs until the desired effect was executed! Like someone said, the Waves SSL EQ has this same issue but I've not heard one complaint because this fact has never been properly broadcasted before today. Same with the new SSL modular rack series.

Like I said, we took a vote on this and the result was to leave it. I think it's a bit charming that we followed the unit we modeled so exactly including this classic analog flaw. I also knew that as soon as it was brought to light that there would be controversy.

So here's the deal. Sure, at some point we can add a mode where the frequency marking on the GUI are spot on. But we have some priorities right now that are more urgent, so it's not gonna happen right away.

Until then, as I said previously, a million mixes have come off of consoles with this same eq issue and the universe was undisturbed, as it will with the FG-S. So in conclusion, we're listening, and we're open to options in the future.

Hope you guys are loving VMR as much as we are! Thanks!

Cheers,
Steven
Old 8th December 2014
  #2261
Gear Addict
 
transverb's Avatar
 

Brilliant Steven! Thank you!
Old 8th December 2014
  #2262
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Any idea where my coupon got to, Steven....?

EDIT: Thank you very much for jumping to the rescue, Steven!!
Old 8th December 2014
  #2263
Gear Addict
 

Great product .Love it ,Bought it .Who cares about visuals ,It sounds perfect.Thank you Steven Slate for this great product (first time I didn"t use UAD in a long time).
Old 8th December 2014
  #2264
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Thumbs up

VMR is Basically my go to Ch strip now.
Haven't touched the waves equivalents since getting this.
Well done Slate team!
Old 8th December 2014
  #2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Skeens View Post
Maybe just keep the graphic freq marks the same but make the readout when you turn the knob the accurate one, then you can use both at once and no need for an extra switch/option.
+1
Old 8th December 2014
  #2266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Folks, for decades audio engineers have used parametric eqs on thousands of consoles with frequency pots that were never exact. It's not just SSL, but really ANY console will have behavior that is similar if it's using frequency pots which are very difficult to get spot on. Now why didn't people complain about this for all these decades? Why didn't anyone have any issue using the FG-S the first 20 days it was out? Because there was no analyzer to reveal the truth, so people just used the tools and twisted the knobs until the desired effect was executed! Like someone said, the EQ has this same issue but I've not heard one complaint because this fact has never been properly broadcasted before today. Same with the new SSL modular rack series.

Like I said, we took a vote on this and the result was to leave it. I think it's a bit charming that we followed the unit we modeled so exactly including this classic analog flaw. I also knew that as soon as it was brought to light that there would be controversy.

So here's the deal. Sure, at some point we can add a mode where the frequency marking on the GUI are spot on. But we have some priorities right now that are more urgent, so it's not gonna happen right away.

Until then, as I said previously, a million mixes have come off of consoles with this same eq issue and the universe was undisturbed, as it will with the FG-S. So in conclusion, we're listening, and we're open to options in the future.

Hope you guys are loving as much as we are! Thanks!

Cheers,
Steven
As i said: Steven is here for feedback and that is why I am still interested in this thread. Has somebody ever seen Colin McDowell chime in on a discussion where somebody pointed clearly out that his AC101, their followup to AC1 is completely different (by far worse!) sounding and incompatible with it's predecessor? No. Although this is quite a valid criticism, compared to frequency marks. I do not know why the whole discussion got so philosophical and at times angry....??? Steven thanks for being here! VMR is cool.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2267
Gear Head
Are there any informations about the future of the VMR series?
Like what modules will come to the VMR?
How long is the cycle between releases?
How much will following modules cost?
Thanks
Old 8th December 2014
  #2268
Lives for gear
 
iLex's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Folks, for decades...

*snip*

...in the future.

Hope you guys are loving VMR as much as we are! Thanks!

Cheers,
Steven

I agree that the wrong markings should never be a reason to not use the plugin and that it isn't a big problem as such. I get the feeling from this discussion that nobody sees it as a deal breaker.

However, the discussion on how far one should go when modeling hardware is an interesting one. Maybe one that should have it's own thread....
You and your plugins seem to be a welcome subject for this debate, which I think is a great compliment to the quality of your plugins. The fact that you join the conversation and give us information about how things came to be makes the discussion even more interesting.
Thank you for that by the way.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2269
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
Are there any informations about the future of the VMR series?
Like what modules will come to the VMR?
How long is the cycle between releases?
How much will following modules cost?
Thanks
No.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2270
Lives for gear
 
Agzilla's Avatar
 

True... I love the fact they voted on it and decided to go with the original hardware imperfection...

I may prefer it to be accurate for my own use but the fact Steven comes in here and confirms it is 'meant' to be that way is cool.

Open dialogue...

Now where's the VCC - FG-X weekly email for Dec bringing us VCC 2 ???? LOLOLOL

Just kidding...but these VMR debates should provide welcome respite from the other great Slate debates...


Zz.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2271
Gear Maniac
 
brandonhackler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
Does it matter? As I said not so much to me, although I don't want the knob labeled 4.5khz to be adjusting 80 hz. That would just be stupid.
Hopefully when you're boosting* at 4.5k you would instantly be able to tell it was boosting at 80hz (or at least realize it was lower) regardless of labeling...

Last edited by brandonhackler; 9th December 2014 at 12:36 AM.. Reason: speller'ing!
Old 8th December 2014
  #2272
Gear Nut
 


Enough already on the frequency debates and the Ping-Pong shots at each other...
Can we please talk about recording/mixing methods folks are using with this amazing plugin on specific instruments, vocals, etc ?
Old 8th December 2014
  #2273
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonhackler View Post
Hopefully when you're bossing at 4.5k you would instantly be able to tell it was boosting at 80hz (or at least realize it was lower) regardless of labeling...
Right, yes we all hope so. I've been a bass player for thirty years, but maybe that's only because it says bass on the label.

Why do you think they put the numbers on the gear, brandonhackler? Did Rupert Neve's brother in law run a silk screen business?

Cause this would be a great way to save money--just stop printing any labels at all on professional gear, and then professionals can just turn knobs till it sounds good. Or is that a really stupid idea?

You make the call
Old 8th December 2014
  #2274
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post

Enough already on the frequency debates and the Ping-Pong shots at each other...
Can we please talk about recording/mixing methods folks are using with this amazing plugin on specific instruments, vocals, etc ?
+1000

Enough already. I am liking the 401 on bass in the mix. And on a good few other things. LOVE the way it stays smooth with the attack at fastest. Not that many comps I enjoy with the attack locked down tight, usually gets ugly some way.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2275
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
+1000

Enough already. I am liking the 401 on bass in the mix. And on a good few other things. LOVE the way it stays smooth with the attack at fastest. Not that many comps I enjoy with the attack locked down tight, usually gets ugly some way.

I agree--still really liking the 401k, still not now with the black comp

Loving the Neve Eq too
Old 8th December 2014
  #2276
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PB+J View Post
I agree--still really liking the 401k, still not now with the black comp

Loving the Neve Eq too
Yep, not down with the 116 either. Just feels twitchy and either does nothing much or burns the sound ugly. Works in parallel, but doesn't act like an 1176 to me at all. None of the magic wavy action on a sound you get from the ballistics of a real one.

Am really down with the SSL mids though. At first felt they were to shrill, but in practice liking them to pop things out with.

Neve low mids are sweet in the right place. Not too sure about running it hot.

Loving the Revival bottom in places where it shouldn't work, like to pillow up a kick and make it pop trough, although it shouldn't with that much bulk added. Does though. Not too keen on the top end other than on really soft stuff perhaps. Goes shrill fast.

All in these puppies are plenty useful in lots of ways, let you use them totally without cpu worry and are FUN. Love it.
Old 8th December 2014
  #2277
Mho
Lives for gear
 

Yes, I love the Ssl, neve and the red compressor, but the 176 feels really strange. I don't get the meters... I have a real 1176 and the UAD mkII, and the release feels weird. I like to grab around 7 dbs on bass and I can't find the sweet spot. It's so easy with the real deal... And the release is a lot faster than my real 1176... Anyway, good job Slate & team!
Old 9th December 2014
  #2278
Lives for gear
 
Rob King's Avatar
Anyone using this in Vienna Ensemble Pro 5? I am getting NO GUI when I put in on an insert in the mixer. Can someone else test this?
Old 9th December 2014
  #2279
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Loving the Revival bottom in places where it shouldn't work, like to pillow up a kick and make it pop trough, although it shouldn't with that much bulk added. Does though. Not too keen on the top end other than on really soft stuff perhaps. Goes shrill fast.
I feel like the Revival module makes for some interesting results. It does what it intends to, I guess, without getting quite as ugly as quickly as some other catch-all/make-better type plugins do.

To my ear, it always feels like the Revival builds in a type of automatic gain-normalizing. I wouldn't say it's necessarily "compression", but it does sound a little bit like boosting EQ into a compressor. Adding either "Shimmer" or "Thickness" doesn't so much sound like it makes those frequency ranges louder; just that it adds more emphasis. The overall level stays more static than an EQ boost of that level would allow, but the mids seem to drop or get more "compressed" (? or something like that) sounding the more either knob is cranked.


Or I'm way off?
Old 9th December 2014
  #2280
Gear Maniac
 
MrMoose's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsguru85 View Post
This thread is soo looong, and I haven't fully read through the last couple of pages and maybe somebody already proposed an "FG-S improvement" like this:

Steven, could there be some simple option within FG-S so that we can switch between the original frequency markings (just the way you've modelled it) and the real/correct frequency markings?

That'd be a trade-off, and if somebody still wants to use original markings, they of course can, but if somebody is new to VMR, they will have the option to show the real/correct markings.

That would be great.
VTM has a whole lot of setting options which are super useful. I think the VMR rack could do with some global settings and this could be a feature. I would assume that anyone who wants accurate markings on their FG-S would also prefer them on all of their modules, same with noise reduction etc. Just having a switch between vintage markings and accurate markings would solve the problem. People who wanna compare with/replace/use hardware in the box can, and people who want surgically precise stuff can have it too, or we can both have both. I love VMR as it is, but I recon if the Slate team is able over time to integrate some of the most requested changes in this thread and continue to improve the features and possibilities of the rack concept this could become one of the most useful plugins ever made and set a new standard.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump