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Waves Introduces StudioRack DAW Software
Old 10th August 2014
  #91
Gear Maniac
 
kite's Avatar
Waves is not in the same league as Slate. And Waves' rack is different than the Slate one. More flexible in every way. Mr. Slate is just a big mouth, so some thinks his stuff is some what unique. So please do not compare Waves and Slate..
Old 10th August 2014
  #92
Lives for gear
 
RaySoul's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kite View Post
Waves is not in the same league as Slate. And Waves' rack is different than the Slate one. More flexible in every way. Mr. Slate is just a big mouth, so some thinks his stuff is some what unique. So please do not compare Waves and Slate..

Well, then. Lol...
Old 10th August 2014
  #93
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubesnstuff View Post
Waves is obviously trying to one-up Slate for being so slow with their VMR...
What on earth are you talking about? Slate's VMR, as announced, are just two compressor types and two EQ types. That's it. Nothing more.

The Waves Studio Rack has 8 slots and already supports 216 Waves plugins some of which are entire channel strips on their own. (That is 4916747105530914241 possible permutations of plugins in case anyone wanted to know). And more will come. The Studio Rack supports the Sound Grid technology, saving chains and many other things. This isn't something Waves quickly whipped up in response to anything Slate announced. This was in the making long before Slate probably even dreamed of VMR.

Comparing the two shows a complete lack of understanding of both products.

Alistair
Old 14th August 2014
  #94
SoundGrid/DigiGrid DLS in my edit room right now. The StudioRack plugin is really quite seamless. TDM/AAX DSP wrapper it hosts in works really well for offloading plugs to the DLS processing, as well as gives the low TDM latency for plugins that had been previously unusable on auxes for tracking (like IR1). Liking it so far. 49 samples of latency. Some plugs introduce extra, obviously.
Old 16th August 2014
  #95
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
SoundGrid/DigiGrid DLS in my edit room right now. The StudioRack plugin is really quite seamless. TDM/AAX DSP wrapper it hosts in works really well for offloading plugs to the DLS processing, as well as gives the low TDM latency for plugins that had been previously unusable on auxes for tracking (like IR1). Liking it so far. 49 samples of latency. Some plugs introduce extra, obviously.
hi guys, I just wanted to chime into this discussion to set a few points straight. I had to post this in the DUC as well as some of you will see. I want to make this post as transparent as possible. This is a long post but it does give an overview of this new Waves system. Believe me, the quote by Matt above is just the start of it.

The one HUUUUUGE plus for me is that, even though AVID have tried to do what for me was anathema, they tried to make my TDM HD192 system, that I have been using for quite a few years now with great success, obsolete. What that means for me is that the nerve centre of my studio would need to be ripped out and replaced. Not only that, I'd need to upgrade my cards yet again, having done so to move from pcix to pcie architecture just a few short years ago. The cost for that was prohibitive. I'm not a big city based studio. But we do turn out World standard products here. And not only that but my Control 24 which still runs beautifully would need to go on the scrap heap as well and I'd need a new desk which can run with PT 11. All this for what gain???? So I have to say a big THANK YOU to Waves.

Sure I am somewhat biased. I love Waves plugs but also happen to think that iZotope and Antares are at the top of their game too. I also like Serato and have a number of Sonnox, Sony and mcdsp plugs in my system too. This new SoundGrid Studio system will allow me the freedom to use a huge number of plugs and voices if needed. My TDM system is freed up and my host CPU is freed up. Look below at the cpu comparisons. It just bears no comparison! As well as that the latency count is so low as to be negligible. This rig works!

Guys, to start with I'll declare my interest in this. I'm one of the handfull of Waves beta testers globally who had the privilege of beta testing this outfit (the DLS server and SoundGrid Studio). Sure I carry the usual biases. But I must also say the testing community at Waves took an extremely critical view of this hardware/software combo and we did not shy away from being quite strident in our comments when necessary. Waves listened to all our concerns and moved accordingly.

I recently posted the following to the beta forum during my final testing run:

I've just finished a mix using all SR based plugs and it is all looking rock solid. Presets are easy to communicate between SR and other plugs.

BUT the big winner is the installation. It was easy. This is a killer setup. I put up a post with comparison cpu usage and you can see the difference it is making. It's enormous. If it works as well at 96k as it does at 44.1 this will be HUGE for the big post studios. It's given my old TDM rig a new lease of life and this is absolutely the best.

The cpu usage difference was: before SG Studio the mix was taking up over 50% CPU and 41% PCI resources. After I ported my plugs over to SG it was 1% CPU (yep you read that right!) and 19% PCI.

To the above I would now add:
Improvements are being constantly made to the current setup and Waves is hoping more third party plug manufacturers join the list of compatible plugs. Running SG studio you can also still run all your usual TDM and Native plugs outside of the SoundGrid chainer.

As mentioned the DLS SoundGrid Studio system most importantly has given my HD 192 a completely new lease of life and increased my outfit's 'grunt' to extraordinary capacity.

In terms of latency in pro tools it is no more than having the same plugs loaded on inserts in a channel. In fact it is less, as Matt indicates. I duplicated tracks, on one I instanced 6 plugs in the normal way and on the other I inserted an SR chainer with the same plugs as the original track. I A/B'd and there was no discernible difference in the mix. And this is with the limited capacity of the TDM systems for delay compensation compared to the newer native systems.

Now having said that, if you run the rig in what's called SGP mode you can run your whole system native and have other huge advantages. Your machine has the same grunt of course, you bypass your TDM cards (which used to worry me until I saw the other creative advantages possible with this way of running the DLS) and you end up with enough capacity to run this huge increase in plug counts WITH REDUCED LATENCY.

This gig works and works well! The capabilities of it are huge and the variety of things you can do are limited by your imagination only.

In I/O mode the SR plug-in (the 'chainer') is a dsp plug and can contain up to 8 plug ins. I/O mode uses my TDM HD 192 system. By cabling it in the way I do, ( HD 192 > Card 1 and Card 2>Port 1 on the DLS) I get 32 outs which are used to port the chainer via the 2 virtual 192's that appear in my Pro Tools i/o's. That gives me 16 virtual stereo outputs or 32 mono or a combination of each. My HD 192's physical i/o's are still available to me for the purpose they were originally intended for in my studio. The virtual outputs give me 16 stereo Studio Rack (SR) plugs or 32 mono SR instances or somewhere in between. Consider that each SR plug (or 'chainer') can take up to 8 plugs and you're starting to get the picture as to just how much dsp/cpu this can save you. Due to the limitations AVID have placed on their systems you can only have 2 i/o's working through 'Tools into the digilink chain. But this still gives you the capacity for up to 32 stereo instances of the chainer or 64 mono instances of the chainer or a combination of both. At most over 500 plugs in your rig before your start even touching your own cpu and/or dsp plugs other than the chainer itself.

This rig also lets you network different DAWs in real time. One of our testers has in fact been pathfinding ways of bringing Logic and Tools to life via the eMotion mixer that also is a feature of this system. They 'talk' to each other in real time without having to start up one and shut down the other. He has them both networking synchronously through his eMotion setup.

Don't let prejudgement stand in the way of really checking this thing out. As mentioned it's given my TDM rig new breath. It's kept me current and believe me I am now certainly not needing to go beyond Pro Tools 10 for quite a while and I can keep my 192 and my Control 24 and keep working happily without having to outlay a substantial amount for no gain.

I must say it's one of the things that I have resented most about AVID's 'progress': AVID has attempted to make my current rig obsolete even though my studio is producing World class music. Sorry but this sort of 'progress' does not do it for me.
Old 17th August 2014
  #96
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentle bull View Post
In terms of latency in pro tools it is no more than having the same plugs loaded on inserts in a channel. In fact it is less, as Matt indicates.
Your claim seems flawed.
- In HDX Soundgrid will add 40 (if not 50) samples of delay at 44.1kHz to regular audio track. This is in no way the same.

Why not include the measured Round Trip Latency of going through a particular path like HDX/DLS with: Mic --> AVID i/o --> StudioRack --> CLA on SG server --> StudioRack --> Avid i/o --> Headphones. And compare that to the same path without a StudioRack instance.

This would have meaning and not be a bunch of words.

While your at it why not do this for HDX, HD Native and an IOS at different Sample rates. And why not add in under what circumstances the Soungrid buffer needs to be adjusted.

I have no problem with you evangelizing - just be accurate.
Old 17th August 2014
  #97
In instances where you'd be using native and TDM on the same channel, or using native on an aux, the latency would be less through DLS. Odd exceptions occur, though. The outstanding H-EQ in TDM had 3 samples of latency, while the native version has 65. In this instance you'd have 114 samples in StudioRack TDM, while only 3 in TDM itself. On the other hand you can now essentially access plugins that were never in TDM format in a TDM friendly way with minimal latency.

It's a good system and quite stable. I've not had to do anything with the DLS buffer in my testing. No hiccups.

SGP mode is a little harder to setup, but you only have to do it once then save your settings. SGP mode lets you move the cable from your HD card to the DLS and it becomes HD Native, essentially. Your AVID capable I/O works in it and even includes a config screen. You have a matrix to rout your CoreAudio channels any which way you'd like to your I/O (192, Omni, Apogee).
Old 17th August 2014
  #98
Lives for gear
As I wrote on the DUC...

The only parallel mixer schemes I understand are the Apollo like ones. If you want FX on your record channel they go in the paralell one. Sends or reverb for rec channels - all in the parallel mixer.

If SG/DG has figured out how to do this using StudioRack and HD Native (as I see in the HDX version) I am all ears. And exactly what happens to "sends" in the record enabled track when all this is going on?

A great video showing step by step how to use this thing with HD Native would be very helpful.
Old 17th August 2014
  #99
With HDN you can use TDM style, where you use DLS on an insert. Being as sensitive to latency as you are you'd be better off using it as if it's running SGP (native) mode. Each StudioRack instance in native land has a big button to switch it to Input mode. In Input mode its output is muted to the DAW while you're recording. Can't remember how it follows the transport state. I'll double check.
Since the track output is muted by StudioRack, PT sends for the channel do nothing.

While this is happening you're using the basically zero latency mixer and DSP plugin processing. The mixer has assignable auxes for a reverb for your talent. In my limited testing on the native side it's pretty much a fire and forget setup. Build it once, then just leave it minimized. Call the mixer audio streams by toggling StudioRack between Input and Playback mode. You can use any Waves reverb in the DSP mixer. I use IR1, just like in my session.
Old 17th August 2014
  #100
Lives for gear
Now it gets more interesting then... If all the controls are in PT (Studio rack) and it is intelligent to use the same chain in PB and Rec - I can start to see how I might use this. Lack of sends in record is unfortunate but makes sense.

I would like to see the details of how this mixer is setup - like when I add PT tracks how does the ST mixer become "aware". Where do I plug my headphones in?? Do I need a separate feed for the control room and the Headphones ... etc...

Thanks Matt :-)
Old 17th August 2014
  #101
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
The outstanding H-EQ in TDM had 3 samples of latency, while the native version has 65. In this instance you'd have 114 samples in StudioRack TDM, while only 3 in TDM itself.
This made me curious so I checked the Waves Plugin Latency chart and the H-EQ has no latency natively at 88.2/96 Khz which makes me suspect that the latency at 44.1/48Khz is due to sample rate conversion. That makes me wonder if the TDM version just skips the sample rate conversion to achieve 3 samples latency.

Just thinking out loud...

Alistair
Old 19th August 2014
  #102
Lives for gear
 
jjdpro's Avatar
 

I totally agree with you.. However, Avid's TDM tech has been obsolete for over 14 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gentle bull View Post
hi guys, I just wanted to chime into this discussion to set a few points straight. I had to post this in the DUC as well as some of you will see. I want to make this post as transparent as possible. This is a long post but it does give an overview of this new Waves system. Believe me, the quote by Matt above is just the start of it.

The one HUUUUUGE plus for me is that, even though AVID have tried to do what for me was anathema, they tried to make my TDM HD192 system, that I have been using for quite a few years now with great success, obsolete. What that means for me is that the nerve centre of my studio would need to be ripped out and replaced. Not only that, I'd need to upgrade my cards yet again, having done so to move from pcix to pcie architecture just a few short years ago. The cost for that was prohibitive. I'm not a big city based studio. But we do turn out World standard products here. And not only that but my Control 24 which still runs beautifully would need to go on the scrap heap as well and I'd need a new desk which can run with PT 11. All this for what gain???? So I have to say a big THANK YOU to Waves.

Sure I am somewhat biased. I love Waves plugs but also happen to think that iZotope and Antares are at the top of their game too. I also like Serato and have a number of Sonnox, Sony and mcdsp plugs in my system too. This new SoundGrid Studio system will allow me the freedom to use a huge number of plugs and voices if needed. My TDM system is freed up and my host CPU is freed up. Look below at the cpu comparisons. It just bears no comparison! As well as that the latency count is so low as to be negligible. This rig works!

Guys, to start with I'll declare my interest in this. I'm one of the handfull of Waves beta testers globally who had the privilege of beta testing this outfit (the DLS server and SoundGrid Studio). Sure I carry the usual biases. But I must also say the testing community at Waves took an extremely critical view of this hardware/software combo and we did not shy away from being quite strident in our comments when necessary. Waves listened to all our concerns and moved accordingly.

I recently posted the following to the beta forum during my final testing run:

I've just finished a mix using all SR based plugs and it is all looking rock solid. Presets are easy to communicate between SR and other plugs.

BUT the big winner is the installation. It was easy. This is a killer setup. I put up a post with comparison cpu usage and you can see the difference it is making. It's enormous. If it works as well at 96k as it does at 44.1 this will be HUGE for the big post studios. It's given my old TDM rig a new lease of life and this is absolutely the best.

The cpu usage difference was: before SG Studio the mix was taking up over 50% CPU and 41% PCI resources. After I ported my plugs over to SG it was 1% CPU (yep you read that right!) and 19% PCI.

To the above I would now add:
Improvements are being constantly made to the current setup and Waves is hoping more third party plug manufacturers join the list of compatible plugs. Running SG studio you can also still run all your usual TDM and Native plugs outside of the SoundGrid chainer.

As mentioned the DLS SoundGrid Studio system most importantly has given my HD 192 a completely new lease of life and increased my outfit's 'grunt' to extraordinary capacity.

In terms of latency in pro tools it is no more than having the same plugs loaded on inserts in a channel. In fact it is less, as Matt indicates. I duplicated tracks, on one I instanced 6 plugs in the normal way and on the other I inserted an SR chainer with the same plugs as the original track. I A/B'd and there was no discernible difference in the mix. And this is with the limited capacity of the TDM systems for delay compensation compared to the newer native systems.

Now having said that, if you run the rig in what's called SGP mode you can run your whole system native and have other huge advantages. Your machine has the same grunt of course, you bypass your TDM cards (which used to worry me until I saw the other creative advantages possible with this way of running the DLS) and you end up with enough capacity to run this huge increase in plug counts WITH REDUCED LATENCY.

This gig works and works well! The capabilities of it are huge and the variety of things you can do are limited by your imagination only.

In I/O mode the SR plug-in (the 'chainer') is a dsp plug and can contain up to 8 plug ins. I/O mode uses my TDM HD 192 system. By cabling it in the way I do, ( HD 192 > Card 1 and Card 2>Port 1 on the DLS) I get 32 outs which are used to port the chainer via the 2 virtual 192's that appear in my Pro Tools i/o's. That gives me 16 virtual stereo outputs or 32 mono or a combination of each. My HD 192's physical i/o's are still available to me for the purpose they were originally intended for in my studio. The virtual outputs give me 16 stereo Studio Rack (SR) plugs or 32 mono SR instances or somewhere in between. Consider that each SR plug (or 'chainer') can take up to 8 plugs and you're starting to get the picture as to just how much dsp/cpu this can save you. Due to the limitations AVID have placed on their systems you can only have 2 i/o's working through 'Tools into the digilink chain. But this still gives you the capacity for up to 32 stereo instances of the chainer or 64 mono instances of the chainer or a combination of both. At most over 500 plugs in your rig before your start even touching your own cpu and/or dsp plugs other than the chainer itself.

This rig also lets you network different DAWs in real time. One of our testers has in fact been pathfinding ways of bringing Logic and Tools to life via the eMotion mixer that also is a feature of this system. They 'talk' to each other in real time without having to start up one and shut down the other. He has them both networking synchronously through his eMotion setup.

Don't let prejudgement stand in the way of really checking this thing out. As mentioned it's given my TDM rig new breath. It's kept me current and believe me I am now certainly not needing to go beyond Pro Tools 10 for quite a while and I can keep my 192 and my Control 24 and keep working happily without having to outlay a substantial amount for no gain.

I must say it's one of the things that I have resented most about AVID's 'progress': AVID has attempted to make my current rig obsolete even though my studio is producing World class music. Sorry but this sort of 'progress' does not do it for me.
Old 9th December 2014
  #103
Here for the gear
 

Hello everyone. I am new at gearslutz (first post)

I had some problems during the installation of studio rack and contacted the Support, and they told me:

Dear Hugo;

In order to install the StudioRack plugin, follow these steps:

1. Download and run the SoundGrid & Native Applications V9r3 installer. (MultiRack, SoundGrid Studio & StudioRack Downloads | Waves)

2. During installation follow on screen instructions and when getting to the products check box list window, choose only StudioRack Native.

3. Follow on screen instructions to complete the installation.

Hope it helps those how could not solve it before!
(In my opinion, it is worthy to try this little add)

Kind Regards all
Old 1st March 2015
  #104
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Somebody @ Waves had a epic fail on his one

VST Mac fails to see the license
AU Mac Studio Rack plug loads in DAW but fails to see any plug-ins
AAX Mac Studio Rack plug-in fails to load in PT 10 or PT 11
ooops
Hi
did you found the answer to this question?
Because i have the same problem.
Old 2nd March 2015
  #105
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
I have no idea once I saw studio rack bypasses dynamic plugin dsp in PT 11 - I have not tried it since
Old 11th May 2015
  #106
Lives for gear
 
jalcide's Avatar
As a Cubase user I'm finding StudioRack very useful for helping circumvent the 6 freezable insert limit in Cubase.

Also, glad to see the r7 release today, but sad it didn't fix issues I've been having with blank (white) preview thumbnails in it, and other visual glitches.

Waves really needs to suss out these graphics card related issues.
Old 30th August 2015
  #107
Here for the gear
 

August 2015...same issue. Studio Rack is not appearing in DP9 as an available plugin, yet it passes the compatibility check and appears in the Preferences>Plugin management.
Old 17th September 2016
  #108
Gear Nut
 

Wave Studiorack 3rd party plugins ??

My Studiorack installed just fine, but only allows Waves plugins. The manual doesn't even mention 3rd party plugins. Has anyone been able to do that?
Old 24th July 2017
  #109
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markalex View Post
My Studiorack installed just fine, but only allows Waves plugins. The manual doesn't even mention 3rd party plugins. Has anyone been able to do that?
Yeah, I couldn't find a way of doing that either. I wonder if it is only Waves 3rd party developers.
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