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Antelope Announces Zen Studio (complete interface solution) now shipping Audio Interfaces
Old 20th March 2014
  #151
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by digital 1010 View Post
Point taken but i didn't mean the Antelope costs too much. I was agreeing with the other post that I think some other companies products are too much especially when technology has moved forward a lot. I think the Zen looks to be well priced for what it offers.

I think there are products out there that are still priced too high due to the name of the brand more than anything else. Some smaller companies are proving quality products can be put out cheaper. Although they don't have the massive overheads bigger companies do so can see some flip sides to it.


Ben
Antelope would have recovered R&D costs from their bigger ticket items (such as their clocks, Eclipse etc), plus they can use technology from the Orion, and I assume they will be making smaller margins on the Zen Studio in the hope of selling more of them?
Old 20th March 2014
  #152
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
In the early going, our drivers weren't dialed in yet, but since last summer, they've been fantastic.

I also agree that once you have a large session, you increase buffers and it become s more critical that you continue to be able to track at near zero latency. This indeed has been our primary focus (monitoring and stability).

Btw, the fastest part of our circuit is playback latency. It's not been an issue what soever for our many film and tv composers using Orion. You can get it down to 1-2ms range.

Thanks for all the comments and thoughts. We appreciate them all. The positive reinforce our thinking and reputation. The critical ones challenge us to respond both here and in our lab. I really enjoy this interaction, fwiw.

Best,
Marcel
Hey Marcel,

My 2 cents FWIW.

Having navigated the whole arena of latency in regards to audio interfaces extensively over the years, I find that there is significant confusion on the part of the end users in what exactly is being specified. Its not a blanket term that many end users seems to believe.

As you have noted , your primary focus was input monitoring via hardware/(DSP FX ), which is great for those tracking conventional analog audio , and it has been something that has been available on Windows for well over a decade via respective hardware monitoring facilities like TotalMix for example ( many other interfaces have similar approaches) , and even more integrated ASIO Direct Monitoring for DAW applications like Cubase/Nuendo , where the DAW Mixer takes control of the dedicated interface hardware monitoring.

The game changes significantly when using Virtual Instruments or even more so Guitar Amp Simulators , as then we are dealing with the driver efficiency at respective software buffers. This is where it gets very murky as available buffer settings on respective control panels of audio interfaces in many cases have little to no correlation to the delivered latency. Variations of RTL -AD/DA + Driver ( Guitar Amp Sims ) on 064 sample buffer settings of control panels can vary anywhere from under 3.5 ms to over 12 ms , playback latency ( realtime playing of VI's ) can be anywhere from 2-6ms.

The other important and often overlooked part of the equation, is the actual driver efficiency at the respective latency values, especially the lower values.

For those that require lower working latencies ( composers - real time VI , amp sims, etc ) its is a critical factor which requires the drivers to be able to scale very efficiently and maintain stability at working latencies far lower than those that are simply tracking and monitoring via hardware implementations and can leave the buffers more relaxed.

I noticed some mentioning that those requiring those lower working latencies to be in the minority , which I found interesting because it is the complete opposite in my experience for the clients that come to me for solutions.

It comes down to horse for courses , and it really depends who the target market is for the respective products , but if a far wider net can be thrown over the prospective markets by providing a stable , efficient and good performing driver , I believe its a win/win for all involved.

Old 21st March 2014
  #153
Gear Maniac
 

Well said Vin, you have just hit the nail on the head And this situation is going to become ever more common as people switch to the virtual instruments & sims (which are only going to get better over time).

I'm in the market for a new interface, but if it can't handle the virtual side of things, then it is immediately of the list.
Old 21st March 2014
  #154
Hey,

still just wondering if any of the software features may come over to the Orion. Obviously, I'm not holding my breath for the DSP effects, but anyway to add the 4 latency-free mixes to the control software?

It would really solve my one complaint about the Orion, which overall I love.
Old 21st March 2014
  #155
Quote:
Originally Posted by darbyclash34 View Post
Any chance some of these software improvements can be brought over to the Orion? I live my Orion 32, think it sounds great and is a great center piece to my studio, but I'd love if it had the routing flexibility this product does. Any goodies coming in future updates for Orion owners?
+++++++
Old 21st March 2014
  #156
Various

Hey Guys,

As some of you know, I don't work at the Antelope factory. I have a mastering room in Los Angeles and I spend my days (and many late nights) working for Antelope as a Sales & Marketing guy. I'm basically just a glorified end-user. So far, it's worked out really well for me, as I have loved all the products Igor and his team have sent my way and it's made things quite easy to represent them over the past 9 years. However, I have to admit, I do get a bit of anxiety each time a new product launch comes around. There are always a few things we uncover during final testing and it can be a scramble to get everything the way we want them to be by the time they get to YOU.

I won't be able to address "every" question you have as fast as you might like, but I think over the next days and weeks you'll get most (if not all) of them answered and hopefully to your satisfaction.

There's been a lot of questions about 1) Racking 2) Latency 3) The Handle 4) The Sound. I've weighed in already on a few of these, but I wanted to quickly recap a bit.

1: This isn't designed as a rack mount device and for a lot of people, this is a "great" thing. I just got my test unit this morning and I've never been exposed to such a powerful, yet lightweight device in my 20 years of computer audio. When I first got my hands on an Orion32 roughly 18 months ago, I was stunned at it's small size and light weight. Now comes the Zen Studio and it's got to be less than 1/2 the weight and about 60% the overall size of Orion. It weighs about the same as my new macbook pro! I still cannot believe it, frankly. All that being said, it fits in 1-space in my rack just fine. If I needed to screw it in, I see no problem removing the feet and putting it on a shelf and screwing it down. But, again that's not what this product was designed for and I think most people would be missing the true brilliance of Zen Studio if they refuse to "Think Outside The Rack". I bought a new (smaller) backpack for my laptop and this unit today and It's a breeze to walk around with.

2: Anyone complaining about latency of Orion on a newer computer is just off the mark to me. Sorry, I know some of you have very strong opinions on the matter, but it's just that the Orion's new driver is so damn fast (especially at 96K), I have no problem tracking vocals, guitars, mixing, or playing virtual instruments at all! It feels just like the Pro Tools HD2 system I used the past few years, when running it through plugins in the daw. A key for me is being able to work effectively with lower buffers on new computers. The Zen was no different today, it performed like a complete champ and I haven't even fired up the monitor mixer(s) yet. It ran great plug-in-play on Mavericks and I just installed our Mac driver and as with Orion, it lowered latency even more. No hitches at all with stability.

3: First thing I did today was run to Fry's to grab a power adaptor, as the office was in such a rush to get it out to me for some upcoming meetings, it was left out. I grabbed the unit by the handle without even thinking about it, took it to the store, easily found a compatible supply and found the new small backpack. I tossed it inside with my laptop and carried it around on my appointments today w/o any hassle. Having a way to firmly hold the interface grew on me immediately! It slowly sunk in during the day what an impact having so much power in such a small and light unit was going to be for a LOT of people. Let's just say, Zen Studio really has a handle on the situation...

4: I've had limited time with it, so far, but out of the box, the unit sounds just brilliant! I'll bounce some files through it and dig in more closely in the next couple weeks, but the headphone outs and mic inputs (what I played around with tonight) really sound great.

Summing things up, as mobile as this thing is, I can't help but look at it and think about what a revelation this is going to be for so many musicians and engineers. A pretty darn small interface that does about everything you need and more. The beauty of Orion32 is being able to have enough I/O in one unit to tackle extensive studio chores. In that same way, the Zen Studio has enough mic pre's, DI's, headphone and line I/O to track about anything you'd ever need w/o breaking a sweat carrying your entire rig with you wherever you need to go.

Yes, today was a fun day.



Fits in my rack right between (2) Orions. Has rubber feet, so won't slide around when using the knob/buttons...


Also fits inside my new slim-sized backpack with extra room for cables and power adaptor.
Old 21st March 2014
  #157
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As a "glorified end user", how do you like the preamps? Any comparisons you can draw up?
Also, the backpack shot is sweet. I have this on order simply so I can bring a rig to the jam space and do live off the floor demos. I have a kit mic'd at my guitarists house... all mics are on a snake, so I hope to show up... plug in... hit record, and get to jamming.
Old 21st March 2014
  #158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
As a "glorified end user", how do you like the preamps? Any comparisons you can draw up?
Also, the backpack shot is sweet. I have this on order simply so I can bring a rig to the jam space and do live off the floor demos. I have a kit mic'd at my guitarists house... all mics are on a snake, so I hope to show up... plug in... hit record, and get to jamming.
Supposed to test this tonight some more. I liked what I hard last night with my Beta 58.

Kind Regards,
Marcel
Old 21st March 2014
  #159
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Cody's Avatar
 

Awesome, can't wait! Finally... when tracking with the Zen's eq/compression, can you actually print the audio with the fx, or is this only for monitor mixes? Last time I bug you.
Old 21st March 2014
  #160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody View Post
Awesome, can't wait! Finally... when tracking with the Zen's eq/compression, can you actually print the audio with the fx, or is this only for monitor mixes? Last time I bug you.
You can print either with, without or both.
Old 21st March 2014
  #161
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Cody's Avatar
 

Alrighty then!
Old 21st March 2014
  #162
Lives for gear
So the DSP EFX --

Your video says, EQ, Rev, Compression

Any delays and delay based FX (Ch, Slap, Flange, echo) ??

Any others??
Old 21st March 2014
  #163
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Immersion's Avatar
some new things I have learned about the ZEN studio and how it compare with Orion and Eclipse

Orion and Zen does not Have the Trinity clock since it does not fit in a 1U rack, it is based on the OCX clock technology (slightly improved though). besides the clock the conversion is slightly better on Eclipse still comparing to Zen And Orion said but it is mostly the Trinity clock that make the big difference in sonic sound quality

I also learned that Zen Studio have the same relay based monitor controller as in the Eclipse but the realays have been slightly less nosiey .

Headphone amp is the same in Eclipse and Zen (which is very good btw!). Pre amps are based from the Eclipse but slightly more improved cause you can boost the volume little bit more.

Dac chips in Orion and Zen is identical they are different in Eclipse because of the channel count.

So yeah you can expect identical quality on Zen studio comparing to Orion..but Eclipse will still sound the best.
Old 22nd March 2014
  #164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
some new things I have learned about the ZEN studio and how it compare with Orion and Eclipse

Orion and Zen does not Have the Trinity clock since it does not fit in a 1U rack, it is based on the OCX clock technology (slightly improved though). besides the clock the conversion is slightly better on Eclipse still comparing to Zen And Orion said but it is mostly the Trinity clock that make the big difference in sonic sound quality

I also learned that Zen Studio have the same relay based monitor controller as in the Eclipse but the realays have been slightly less nosiey .

Headphone amp is the same in Eclipse and Zen (which is very good btw!). Pre amps are based from the Eclipse but slightly more improved cause you can boost the volume little bit more.

Dac chips in Orion and Zen is identical they are different in Eclipse because of the channel count.

So yeah you can expect identical quality on Zen studio comparing to Orion..but Eclipse will still sound the best.
Who told you this? The clocking IS indeed the Trinity-level. Also, there aren't relays inside the Zen. I will confirm all this by tonight, but this is NOT the information I was given originally from Igor. Please tell me where you got this info.

The other discrepancy I have with your comments is there are NO preamps inside the Eclipse. Also, comments about Eclipse or Orion sounding better are completely subjective. I've had some prefer one or the other and no clear favorite. The Eclipse has monitor switching, dual clocks, volume control, talkback, headphone outs. The Orion32 has bulk channels and MADI. Different animals, slightly different sound and some prefer either unit, depends more on user needs and application.

Thanks,
Marcel
Old 22nd March 2014
  #165
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Immersion's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Who told you this? The clocking IS indeed the Trinity-level. Also, there aren't relays inside the Zen. I will confirm all this by tonight, but this is NOT the information I was given originally from Igor. Please tell me where you got this info.

The other discrepancy I have with your comments is there are NO preamps inside the Eclipse. Also, comments about Eclipse or Orion sounding better are completely subjective. I've had some prefer one or the other and no clear favorite. The Eclipse has monitor switching, dual clocks, volume control, talkback, headphone outs. The Orion32 has bulk channels and MADI. Different animals, slightly different sound and some prefer either unit, depends more on user needs and application.

Thanks,
Marcel
Antelope support told me all this, I still have the chat log if you are interested.
Old 22nd March 2014
  #166
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Quote:
12:51:30
Customer Support: Hi there
12:51:55
Customer Support: The Zen has the same clock and converters as the Orion 32. The Eclipse clock is same as the Trinity, and it is a better clock than the Zen.
12:55:33
Customer Support: They are very different products, The Zen also has DSP for recording. But in the end it comes down to what you need. Obviously the Zen has more I/O but the Eclipse is a better converter and master clock

13:01:00
Customer Support: The Zen does sound absolutely great, but since you already own an Eclipse, I think you should stick to it. It is the best sounding product we have in terms of stereo DAC. Yes all our products have 64bit AFC technology but the Trinity/Eclipse clock is more advanced then the Zen/Orion which is the same clock as the OCX.

13:03:02
Customer Support: Yeah. It basically resulted that way due to size. The clock module of the Trinity cannot fit in a 1U chassis
13:03:34
Customer Support: The Orion and Zen clock module is based on the OCX but slightly upgraded since the OCX is an old product

Customer Support: Yes it is based on the Eclipse monitor control. The relays are less noisy though. That''s the only improvement. The headphone amp is the same and the preamps are based on the Eclipse preamps. but have been slightly improved
13:06:36

13:18:59
Customer Support: Yes the DAC chips are different. The DAC chips of Orion and Zen are identical, but for Eclipse they are a little different. Same brand of chips, different due to channel count. Yes again you are correct. The clocking plays a larger role in the conversion rather than the DAC chips

Customer Support: What you said pretty much sums it up only the Eclipse DAC chips are not that old.
If you use an external clock that is less accurate, then there will be an audible difference. If you use 10M with Eclipse, then you will hear a whole new world of sound. That's how important good clocking is during conversion
Old 22nd March 2014
  #167
Immersion. I read some of Support's answers slightly differently than you did.

Sound quality. What they are basically saying is the specs of the converter used in Eclipse are better than the Orion. While this is true, saying one sounds better than the other is purely a subjective matter. It's just not something I'd say so emphatically one way or the other. Some prefer one, some prefer the other. The part about the clocking affecting the sound should be taken into account here.

Read the part where he says "Yes all our products have 64bit AFC technology". This means the clocking circuit is the same in all newer products (Trinity and newer and the OCX is not 64-bit, btw). The thing that Zen and OCX have in common is that they have more limited functions clock-wise (only one rate, no varispeed, no video sync). But, OCX and Zen are designed ten years apart and are different generations of clocking. OCX is still VERY good sounding, again gets subjective here. Some people do prefer it, although Trinity is what most go for for "best sound"... OCX has also become somewhat of a "standard" for a lot of live and other uses, so we have opted to continue it, for the time being.

Zen and Orion again have the same clocking and converting (identical to Trinity level). The main difference is features and as with Eclipse, application and needs.

I hope this helps clarify the answers I've given you and reconciles them better with the Support chat. The only point I don't agree with is telling someone one sounds better than the other. That's a subjective matter and can vary between even the best ears one way or the other. Best way to pick between them is based on one's needs or by listening to both and making one's own determination.

Thanks,
Marcel
Old 22nd March 2014
  #168
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Immersion's Avatar
Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Immersion. I read some of Support's answers slightly differently than you did.

Sound quality. What they are basically saying is the specs of the converter used in Eclipse are better than the Orion. While this is true, saying one sounds better than the other is purely a subjective matter. It's just not something I'd say so emphatically one way or the other. Some prefer one, some prefer the other. The part about the clocking affecting the sound should be taken into account here.

Read the part where he says "Yes all our products have 64bit AFC technology". This means the clocking circuit is the same in all newer products (Trinity and newer and the OCX is not 64-bit, btw). The thing that Zen and OCX have in common is that they have more limited functions clock-wise (only one rate, no varispeed, no video sync). But, OCX and Zen are designed ten years apart and are different generations of clocking. OCX is still VERY good sounding, again gets subjective here. Some people do prefer it, although Trinity is what most go for for "best sound"... OCX has also become somewhat of a "standard" for a lot of live and other uses, so we have opted to continue it, for the time being.

Zen and Orion again have the same clocking and converting (identical to Trinity level). The main difference is features and as with Eclipse, application and needs.

I hope this helps clarify the answers I've given you and reconciles them better with the Support chat. The only point I don't agree with is telling someone one sounds better than the other. That's a subjective matter and can vary between even the best ears one way or the other. Best way to pick between them is based on one's needs or by listening to both and making one's own determination.

Thanks,
Marcel
Are you working at Antelope ?
Cause you seem to fill in a lot of your own "opinions"
While the Antelope customer support did give me more clear answers.

Such as Eclipse have better clocking the both Orion and Zen. You are telling something different then what the customer support is telling me, it is not that I am reading it wrong. He is clearly saying it has the OCX clock so it is not much to misunderstand there. He is not saying Orion and Zen have trinity level clocking he is saying they have OCX level clocking and that a trinity clock would not FIT physically in an 1U chassis

Regarding a subjective matter, I have to believe then when he say that Eclipse is the best and most high quality converter in their line he is not saying that from an subjective perspective but from a scientific perspective.

I have no idea what you are trying to protect, it seem you want to protect the Zen studio for some reason, Antelope support is telling me the Eclipse is regarded as their best product of the 3... Or you think the Eclipse is priced almost twice as much as for instance the orion for no reason ?
If you you think it is priced twice as high for no reason please let me know so I can sell my Eclipse, thank you.

Best Regards.
Immersion
Old 22nd March 2014
  #169
I cant help but wonder - is there going to be something for the studio - a rack - with similar or slightly more features than the Zen...because the Orion 32 is great an all - but not everyone needs 32 IO on DSub for $3k in the studio - and having some mic Pre and DI in the studio is useful for a lot of people also...a la Fireface/ULN8/Orpheus/etc...

I only say this because the Zen is so clearly being pushed for the mobile market I can but wonder...
Old 22nd March 2014
  #170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Are you working at Antelope ?
Cause you seem to fill in a lot of your own "opinions"
While the Antelope customer support did give me more clear answers.

Such as Eclipse have better clocking the both Orion and Zen. You are telling something different then what the customer support is telling me, it is not that I am reading it wrong. He is clearly saying it has the OCX clock so it is not much to misunderstand there. He is not saying Orion and Zen have trinity level clocking he is saying they have OCX level clocking and that a trinity clock would not FIT physically in an 1U chassis

Regarding a subjective matter, I have to believe then when he say that Eclipse is the best and most high quality converter in their line he is not saying that from an subjective perspective but from a scientific perspective.

I have no idea what you are trying to protect, it seem you want to protect the Zen studio for some reason, Antelope support is telling me the Eclipse is regarded as their best product of the 3... Or you think the Eclipse is priced almost twice as much as for instance the orion for no reason ?
If you you think it is priced twice as high for no reason please let me know so I can sell my Eclipse, thank you.

Best Regards.
Immersion
Yes, I have worked for Antelope and closely with Igor in product feature discussions for 9 years now. In fact, I'm the lead person for Antelope USA.

I'm not offering you firm "opinion's", in fact I'm stating the contrary. I'm saying sound preference is a subjective matter. And I'm also telling you that "better clock" in this case means more flexible and feature-rich, as far as Trinity/Eclipse vs. Zen/Orion. These are facts, not opinion, as the circuits themselves are the same, it's more a matter of the code and what they're syncing that would make one "better" than the other. If you need video or varispeed, then clearly Eclipse or Trinitiy are indeed "better".

What won't fit inside a 1U are three clock displays and all the BNC connectors. The clock circuit itself does not take up 2U.

The Eclipse has roughly 70 relays inside and the Orion has none. It's about function and flexibility. Making a sound quality decision alone based on price is something that's usually more common in the audiophile world. More money just simply isn't always "best sounding" for any comparison, for that matter.

I'm not protecting anything other than the "facts" here. I'm also trying to warn against making flat out assumptive deductions like one product sounding better than the other, when again that's a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" kind of thing. They both sound great. I'm proud to sell either. But, flat statements that one sounds better than another simply aren't universally agreed upon in professional circles. It's much better to listen to both, if making strictly a sonic choice or do as most do and make a decision based on applicational needs.

I hope this helps clarify your concerns. I'm only trying to help here, btw.

Also,if you call our main US phone line or email our "info" address, I will be the one answering you, just in case you for some reason don't believe I work for the company I'm representing here. :-)

I'm also again not disputing our Support's answers to you, I only feel that they weren't saying quite what you took from the comments. Keep in mind, they are in Europe and sometimes subtleties can get "lost in translation" a bit..

Best Regards,
Marcel
Old 22nd March 2014
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Yes, I have worked for Antelope and closely with Igor in product feature discussions for 9 years now. In fact, I'm the lead person for Antelope USA.

I'm not offering you firm "opinion's", in fact I'm stating the contrary. I'm saying sound preference is a subjective matter. And I'm also telling you that "better clock" in this case means more flexible and feature-rich, as far as Trinity/Eclipse vs. Zen/Orion. These are facts, not opinion, as the circuits themselves are the same, it's more a matter of the code and what they're syncing that would make one "better" than the other. If you need video or varispeed, then clearly Eclipse or Trinitiy are indeed "better".

What won't fit inside a 1U are three clock displays and all the BNC connectors. The clock circuit itself does not take up 2U.

The Eclipse has roughly 70 relays inside and the Orion has none. It's about function and flexibility. Make a sound quality decision alone based on price is something that's usually more common in the audiophile world. More money just simply isn't always "best sounding" for any comparison, for that matter.

I'm not protecting anything on than the "facts" here. I'm also trying to warn against making flat out assumptive deductions like one sounding better than the other, when again that's a beauty in the eye of the beholder kind of thing. They both sound great. I'm proud to sell either. But, flat statements that one sounds better than another simply aren't universally agreed upon in professional circles. It's much better to listen to both, if making strictly a sonic choice or do as most do and make a decision based on applicational needs.

I hope this helps clarify your concerns. I'm only trying to help here.

Btw, if you call our main US phone line or email [email protected], I will be the one answering you, just in case you for some reason don't believe I work for the company I'm representing here. :-)

I'm also again not disputing our Support's answers to you, I only feel that they weren't saying quite what you took from the comments. Keep in mind, they are in Europe and sometimes subtleties can get "lost in translation" a bit..

Best Regards,
Marcel
Well I did not quote my qestions either only the answers...

You told earlier in this thread that you did not work for antelope, now you say you do. You also said earlier that Orion was Antelopes First converter when it was Eclipse.

Still the Antelope support did give me different answers, such as that Eclipse have a trinity level clock and a better sounding clock, and that the converter as a whole sounds better then Zen and Orion because of Eclipse have a better clock, you can't misunderstand that, unless The support is trying to deceive me, the context was basicially like this I wanted them to explain why I choose keep my Eclipse, now when Zen studio have both 64 Bit AFC and relay based monitor controller... The customer support did convince me to keep the Eclipse for now cause it is a better sounding product in general, better clocking and better converters in general. This is what they told me. If you work at Antelope maybe you people should agree on which product is your top of the line product is it zen, orion or Eclipse ?
Cause you seem to say that Orion and Zen and Eclipse is all the same...more or less..and the differences are "subjective", they should be scientific also especially considering the Eclipse cost a lot more.. Hopefully it is for a reason cause I have invested in one, and would not feel good seeing a lot of the technology borrowed from Eclipse in to a unit that cost only a forth/fifth of the price.

Since your work at Antelope I think it is important I get the same answer from you all.. The Eclipse is the price of 3 Zen Studios so one Could expect a better sound quality.
Old 22nd March 2014
  #172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Well I did not quote my qestions either only the answers...

You told earlier in this thread that you did not work for antelope, now you say you do. You also said earlier that Orion was Antelopes First converter when it was Eclipse.

Still the Antelope support did give me different answers, such as that Eclipse have a trinity level clock and a better sounding clock, and that the converter as a whole sounds better then Zen and Orion because of Eclipse have a better clock, you can't misunderstand that, unless The support is trying to deceive me, the context was basicially like this I wanted them to explain why I choose keep my Eclipse, now when Zen studio have both 64 Bit AFC and relay based monitor controller... The customer support did convince me to keep the Eclipse for now cause it is a better sounding product in general, better clocking and better converters in general. This is what they told me. If you work at Antelope maybe you people should agree on which product is your top of the line product is it zen, orion or Eclipse ?
Cause you seem to say that Orion and Zen and Eclipse is all the same...more or less..and the differences are "subjective", they should be scientific also especially considering the Eclipse cost a lot more.. Hopefully it is for a reason cause I have invested in one, and would not feel good seeing a lot of the technology borrowed from Eclipse in to a unit that cost only a forth/fifth of the price.

Since your work at Antelope I think it is important I get the same answer from you all.. The Eclipse is the price of 3 Zen Studios so one Could expect a better sound quality.
I never said I don't work for Antelope. Show me such a quote. I said I was not at the Factory, I'm based in Los Angeles. Most people around here know me, btw. Plenty of people fully realize I work for Antelope and have for years.

Actually, our first "converter" was the Zodiac. Our first "interface" is the Eclipse, but that's such a minor part of what that product actually is, I still consider our Orion32 or first studio interface (meaning, multi-channel interface).

Listen, the guy at Support is a different human being than I am. Our opinions might differ slightly, as a matter of fact. I don't agree in blanket statements of sound being better than another. I let others make those determinations with their own ears. You can't even effectively measure which device "sounds" better in most cases (An already widely debated topic here at GS), so it's just silly to even delve into that. Again, it's my belief you should make decisions based on your intended use. And, if you want to hear a Zen, get your hands on one and make that determination yourself. You're the best judge of what sounds best to you, not myself or the guy on the chat line.

Best Regards,
Marcel
Old 22nd March 2014
  #173
I'll take this opportunity to post an interview with Korn we just completed. Um, yes that's me "working for Antelope" in the video. :-)

Old 22nd March 2014
  #174
Gear Maniac
 

Is there enough juice going into the Zen to handle all those pres and converters?
Old 22nd March 2014
  #175
Gear Maniac
 

I found this, there is some good info here


Old 22nd March 2014
  #176
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GeneHall's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Well I did not quote my qestions either only the answers...

You told earlier in this thread that you did not work for antelope, now you say you do. You also said earlier that Orion was Antelopes First converter when it was Eclipse.

Still the Antelope support did give me different answers, such as that Eclipse have a trinity level clock and a better sounding clock, and that the converter as a whole sounds better then Zen and Orion because of Eclipse have a better clock, you can't misunderstand that, unless The support is trying to deceive me, the context was basicially like this I wanted them to explain why I choose keep my Eclipse, now when Zen studio have both 64 Bit AFC and relay based monitor controller... The customer support did convince me to keep the Eclipse for now cause it is a better sounding product in general, better clocking and better converters in general. This is what they told me. If you work at Antelope maybe you people should agree on which product is your top of the line product is it zen, orion or Eclipse ?
Cause you seem to say that Orion and Zen and Eclipse is all the same...more or less..and the differences are "subjective", they should be scientific also especially considering the Eclipse cost a lot more.. Hopefully it is for a reason cause I have invested in one, and would not feel good seeing a lot of the technology borrowed from Eclipse in to a unit that cost only a forth/fifth of the price.

Since your work at Antelope I think it is important I get the same answer from you all.. The Eclipse is the price of 3 Zen Studios so one Could expect a better sound quality.
And there it is. I run into similar issues trying to purchase from uninformed distributors, not really knowing or grasping what they are selling .
I shouldn't know more about a product prior to purchase than, say, it's representatives.

Fwiw, after getting a closer look at the goofy handle and unfortunate location of adats, this box is probably best suited to a community radio field recordist or a Foley artist, really.
I do like it's front panel tho. Very schmick and professional looking. That alone will move some boxes.

I had no idea a comparison had been drawn in this thread which implies the Zen is as an Eclipse is, in any way. That would be cool, though quite silly to fathom.

Keep asking the questions, even if it drives folks nuts. Interface mumbo jumbo has really turned a potentially exciting retail experience into a cesspool of unclear facts , bold unrealistic claims and misleading product association, under informed customer support,et al. That business model banks on the brand name closing the sale, not necessarily the goods being purchased.

a non biased 3rd party company that tested and qualified interfaces under varying loads, reporting real world performances publicly would be a Godsend for consumers.
Companies will risk their brand power and release dodgy drivers often half finished upon release, so I wonder, would any of these same companies would queue up to have real world results of their expensive offerings analysed and reported for the benefit of consumers? Who would risk their brand with only the truth to be reported?
Old 22nd March 2014
  #177
Gear Maniac
 

I would have a listen to the words of the main-man Igor Levin, I have a feeling he knows what he is talking about
Old 22nd March 2014
  #178
Mic pre sample #1

These clips were recorded last night using one of the Zen Studio mic preamps and a Royer Ribbon Microphone. The singer is a world class opera singer from Rome who lives in Los Angeles. Recorded into Logic X at 44.1, 24bit with a touch of Space Designer.

Zen Studio mic pre samples (opera)

Soprano is Elisabetta Russo
Old 22nd March 2014
  #179
Lives for gear
 
Immersion's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
I never said I don't work for Antelope. Show me such a quote. I said I was not at the Factory, I'm based in Los Angeles. Most people around here know me, btw. Plenty of people fully realize I work for Antelope and have for years.

Actually, our first "converter" was the Zodiac. Our first "interface" is the Eclipse, but that's such a minor part of what that product actually is, I still consider our Orion32 or first studio interface (meaning, multi-channel interface).

Listen, the guy at Support is a different human being than I am. Our opinions might differ slightly, as a matter of fact. I don't agree in blanket statements of sound being better than another. I let others make those determinations with their own ears. You can't even effectively measure which device "sounds" better in most cases (An already widely debated topic here at GS), so it's just silly to even delve into that. Again, it's my belief you should make decisions based on your intended use. And, if you want to hear a Zen, get your hands on one and make that determination yourself. You're the best judge of what sounds best to you, not myself or the guy on the chat line.

Best Regards,
Marcel
Well Marcel, I have only one thing to say, maybe you should talk with them so I know which person I should listen to it is not a good thing when people from Antelope say different things. obviously you are the PR guy that want to describe the picture that the new Zen studio product slays everything including the Eclipse. While the Customer support gives me an different picture his motive was to give me reasons why I should keep the Eclipse and not sell it and buy the Zen studio, the answer was that Eclipse is your best interface with the best sonic quality. I got clear answers from the teach support form Antelope, Zen and Orion is OCX level clock but slightly improved while Eclipse is Trinity level clocking.
Because of Eclipse have a better clock it is still your best souding converter right now (lets exlude the Zodiac series since they are for Home users)...

Judging on the answers you get from Antelope Support I can say that people who doubtful about the converters I think have no reason to be, Zen studio is basically same converters but with worse clock then Eclipse, but for this price I would say it is insane value, would love to hear how it compare with Prism Titan... I hope there will be some kind of rack kit in the future so you can mount it in a rack.
Old 23rd March 2014
  #180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immersion View Post
Well Marcel, I have only one thing to say, maybe you should talk with them so I know which person I should listen to it is not a good thing when people from Antelope say different things. obviously you are the PR guy that want to describe the picture that the new Zen studio product slays everything including the Eclipse. While the Customer support gives me an different picture his motive was to give me reasons why I should keep the Eclipse and not sell it and buy the Zen studio, the answer was that Eclipse is your best interface with the best sonic quality. I got clear answers from the teach support form Antelope, Zen and Orion is OCX level clock but slightly improved while Eclipse is Trinity level clocking.
Because of Eclipse have a better clock it is still your best souding converter right now (lets exlude the Zodiac series since they are for Home users)...

Judging on the answers you get from Antelope Support I can say that people who doubtful about the converters I think have no reason to be, Zen studio is basically same converters but with worse clock then Eclipse, but for this price I would say it is insane value, would love to hear how it compare with Prism Titan... I hope there will be some kind of rack kit in the future so you can mount it in a rack.
You're putting words in my mouth. The Eclipse is outstanding and I never said you shouldn't keep it. It's just my view that the Zen and Orion are also outstanding and all I said is one isn't "better" than another, it's a question of needs and application. That's what I'm saying. This isn't figure skating where you rate a performance, etc.

I'm not debating this issue further, I've been clear and open for all to see.

Regards,
Marcel
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