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Launch of Pono Studio Headphones
Old 21st March 2014
  #1291
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
here's a thought on albums versus singles...

if you went up to a crowd of fans lined up for a live concert and asked "what do you want to hear tonight?" what do you think they would respond?

album title?

not!

song title?

absolutely!
You're asking a silly question just to get a "yes".

Bands don't play "albums" at concerts. They play songs. So obviously that's going to be their answer.

Top selling albums of all time:

Michael Jackson - Thriller
Pink Floyd - Dark Side
AC-DC - Back in Black
Bee Gees - Saturday Night Fever
Fleetwood Mac - Rumors
Led Zeppelin - Led Zep IV
The Beatles - Sgt Peppers

Top Selling Singles

Bill Haley and the Comets - Rock around the clock
The Ink Spots - If I didn't care
Baccara - Yes Sir I can Boogie
Celion Dion - My Hear Will Go On
Gloria Gaynor - I will Survive
The Monkees - I'm a Believer
Village People - YMCA


Draw your own conclusions.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1292
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if we go back to good old fashion FM radio, how many play complete albums versus singles?

i can only think of one, WXRT in Chicago (back in the day. don't know if they still do)
Old 21st March 2014
  #1293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
You're asking a silly question just to get a "yes".
it's not silly to the people who do most of the recorded music and concert ticket buying

you can thank them for your platinum albums
Old 21st March 2014
  #1294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
if we go back to good old fashion FM radio, how many play complete albums versus singles?

i can only think of one, WXRT in Chicago (back in the day. don't know if they still do)
Again, just arguing for no good reason.
It's just that you are being far too general.
Singles vs albums = meh. Both are valid.
Selling singles gives the consumer more choice, which is good. But it allows them not to understand the artist's vision, not so good. There is no right or wrong answer.

Listen to fans talking and Fleetwood Mac fans are far more likely to rave about 'Rumours' than 'Dreams'. Zeppelin fans will wax lyrical about Led Zeppelin 4.
Madonna fans will talk about individual songs, likewise Jay Z.

Following your line of thinking one has to be right, the other wrong. But really it's just about personal taste. Some artists make albums, others concentrate on singles. Some fans appreciate albums, others stay mainly focussed on singles.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1295
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
you only know they're one hit wonders long after the fact
Why does it matter "when" you know?

If they built a fan base, they wouldn't disappear.

The band "Cake" had one major hit yet built a fan base and can still tour and sell out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
i would say a string of hit songs = big fan base
It helps but it's not a very good litmus test.

When "Appetite for Destruction" blew up. They were huge for years based on that one record.

That doesn't happen for hit singles. MC Hammer had huge success for 4-6 months.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
if we go back to good old fashion FM radio, how many play complete albums versus singles?

i can only think of one, WXRT in Chicago (back in the day. don't know if they still do)
Another silly question just to get a "yes".
Old 21st March 2014
  #1297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
it's not silly to the people who do most of the recorded music and concert ticket buying

you can thank them for your platinum albums
To be fair, most of my success was from singles yet Marcy Playground sold well as an album. They didn't even sell a single.

But they out sold all the similar "Radio Singles" of that time based on that decision.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Madonna fans will talk about individual songs
woah!

Ray Of light is a great album no matter what angle you look at it...songwriting, production, mixing, mastering whatever....

Quote:
But really it's just about personal taste.
in the end, yes

it's art, not physics
Old 21st March 2014
  #1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
woah!

Ray Of light is a great album no matter what angle you look at it...songwriting, production, mixing, mastering whatever....
Huh????
We're not talking about what is and what isn't good.
We're discussing what fans say about their favourite artists. I'm suggesting more Madonna fans focus on single songs than Led Zeppelin fans do.
Not that either are wrong. probably more likely one is seen as a 'singles artist' the other an 'album artist'. How many singles have Rush released, or The Mahavishnu Orchestra, or Philip Glass?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I'm suggesting more Madonna fans focus on single songs than Led Zeppelin fans do.
wait a minute...

when i walk into music stores the signs say "no playing stairway to heaven allowed" not "no Zep IV allowed"
Old 21st March 2014
  #1301
Maybe because it's a guitar riff that's been done to death?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1302
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maybe because it's the biggest single from that album
Old 21st March 2014
  #1303
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Quick comment on the "song vs album controversy". When I started buying albums, I'd often know about a song or two on the album and they'd be my favorites. But as I listened I'd discover that many of the other songs on the album, the not famous ones, were as good or at least I liked them as well. Not listening thru albums has deprived me of that "aha!" moment when I discovered the true, hidden gems!
Old 21st March 2014
  #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbob1 View Post
Quick comment on the "song vs album controversy". When I started buying albums, I'd often know about a song or two on the album and they'd be my favorites. But as I listened I'd discover that many of the other songs on the album, the not famous ones, were as good or at least I liked them as well. Not listening thru albums has deprived me of that "aha!" moment when I discovered the true, hidden gems!
a perfect anecdote for my argument

if songs were released 1-3 at time instead of as an album of 10-12, all the songs would get equal exposure
Old 21st March 2014
  #1305
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Plush's Avatar
I'm backing the PONO project. I will be pleased to enter debate about sound quality once PONO's version of the music is heard by all who are interested this fall. I sure won't be devoting any weight to this discussion here.

It's very clear to me that 192 (and higher) sample rates make a fantastic difference in sound quality, realism and listenability.

I have been recording hi-res since 1995.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I'm backing the PONO project. I will be pleased to enter debate about sound quality once PONO's version of the music is heard by all who are interested this fall. I sure won't be devoting any weight to this discussion here.

It's very clear to me that 192 (and higher) sample rates make a fantastic difference in sound quality, realism and listenability.

I have been recording hi-res since 1995.
I backed PONO as well.
But have you noticed how many people in this thread will swear there is NO difference in sound quality between 16/44.1 and 24/192?
And to them, it's not even debatable, it's science!
Old 21st March 2014
  #1307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
maybe because it's the biggest single from that album

It was never released as a single I believe, either in the UK or USA.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
a perfect anecdote for my argument

if songs were released 1-3 at time instead of as an album of 10-12, all the songs would get equal exposure
NO, he's repeating what I've been saying.
Dance music is released in 3 or 4 track EP's.
I buy a lot of dance music and audition each track for the 30 seconds. If I buy a track it's the one that offers me instant gratification. the other tracks I never go back to, because by then we're all on to the next ep release.
In the end, the vast majority of released music in small batches never gets past the 30 second demo.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1309
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
a perfect anecdote for my argument

if songs were released 1-3 at time instead of as an album of 10-12, all the songs would get equal exposure
Equal exposure?

Only if they're equally "radio type" songs.

The "album" cuts would sink the artist.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1310
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
I backed PONO as well.
But have you noticed how many people in this thread will swear there is NO difference in sound quality between 16/44.1 and 24/192?
And to them, it's not even debatable!
Show me where anyone said that.

I said that I can't hear the difference.

And that the difference (if there is any) is subtle.

Not as the people in that video describe it.

Do you want a debate the people in this thread or do you prefer men of straw?

Have I changed your position? Have I said that you think the difference is night and day?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Show me where anyone said that.

I said that I can't hear the difference.

And that the difference (if there is any) is subtle.

Not as the people in that video describe it.

Do you want a debate the people in this thread or do you prefer men of straw?

Have I changed your position? Have I said that you think the difference is night and day?
My comment wasn't addressed to you.
This thread isn't about you.
I didn't say you said anything.
I can't tell what you've said.
You have 291 posts in this thread and over 200 of them are deleted.....by you.
I never mentioned you.
I don't agree with anything you've posted in this thread.
Why would I mention you?
Many people in this thread have said that 44.1 is all you need and any higher is a waste.
I do think the difference is night and day.
The person I was speaking to also thinks there is a "fantastic" difference.
You can think what you like.
It doesn't effect me in the slightest.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1312
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Why don't you post 30 seconds of a really good section at 192k, 96k (up sampled to 192k) and 44.1kHz (up sampled to 192k)

Let's see if everyone hears it.
No. Buy it yourself.
Why do you keep talking about up sampling?
Why would anyone downsample, then upsample?
What does that have to do with anything in this thread!
Old 21st March 2014
  #1313
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

It's very clear to me that 192 (and higher) sample rates make a fantastic difference in sound quality, realism and listenability.

I have been recording hi-res since 1995.
Super Audio CD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I assume you have never done a proper a/b/x test?

Quoting the study above:

Quote:
Double-blind listening tests in 2004 between DSD and 24-bit, 176.4 kHz PCM recordings reported that among test subjects no significant differences could be heard.[45] DSD advocates and equipment manufacturers continue to assert an improvement in sound quality above PCM 24-bit 176.4 kHz.[46] Despite both formats' extended frequency responses, it has been shown people cannot distinguish audio with information above 21 kHz from audio without such high-frequency content.[47]
More:
Quote:
Claims both published and anecdotal are regularly made for audibly superior sound quality for two-channel audio encoded with longer word lengths and/or at higher sampling rates than the 16-bit/44.1-kHz CD standard. The authors report on a series of double-blind tests comparing the analog output of high-resolution players playing high-resolution recordings with the same signal passed through a 16-bit/44.1-kHz "bottleneck." The tests were conducted for over a year using different systems and a variety of subjects. The systems included expensive professional monitors and one high-end system with electrostatic loudspeakers and expensive components and cables. The subjects included professional recording engineers, students in a university recording program, and dedicated audiophiles. The test results show that the CD-quality A/D/A loop was undetectable at normal-to-loud listening levels, by any of the subjects, on any of the playback systems. The noise of the CD-quality loop was audible only at very elevated levels.
More here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70893.0

Buy Pono, it's up to you. But if you haven't actually done a proper a/b/x test then you don't know that it sounds better, instead you have proven the existence of confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 21st March 2014
  #1314
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
No. Buy it yourself.
Why do you keep talking about up sampling?
Why would anyone downsample, then upsample?
What does that have to do with anything in this thread!
..the point of upsampling is to show you can't hear the difference between something that was upsampled from 44.1 vs a native 96 or 192 track.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1315
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
Many people in this thread have said that 44.1 is all you need and any higher is a waste.
Which is very different from:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
I backed PONO as well.
But have you noticed how many people in this thread will swear there is NO difference in sound quality between 16/44.1 and 24/192?
And to them, it's not even debatable, it's science!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
You can think what you like.
It doesn't effect me in the slightest.
I appreciate that you allow me my own thoughts.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1316
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
maybe because it's the biggest single from that album
Sheesh, I'm out of this little tangent... you don't make any sense, and you have no real point..
Old 21st March 2014
  #1317
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
No. Buy it yourself.
Why do you keep talking about up sampling?
Why would anyone downsample, then upsample?
What does that have to do with anything in this thread!
I understand. Thinking is hard.

Let me explain. To anyone else that is.

If I post a sample of a piece of music at 192kHz and at 96kHz and at 44.1kHz for people to compare, it wouldn't be hard (for most of us) to figure out which one was which. File size alone might be a clue.

But an up sampled 44.1kHz file to 192kHz should be really hard to figure out unless you cheated and used a scope.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
..the point of upsampling is to show you can't hear the difference between something that was upsampled from 44.1 vs a native 96 or 192 track.
But they're are two completely differently things...
Why not just compare 24/192 to 16/44.1?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1319
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I understand. Thinking is hard.

Let me explain. To anyone else that is.

If I post a sample of a piece of music at 192kHz and at 96kHz and at 44.1kHz for people to compare, it wouldn't be hard (for most of us) to figure out which one was which. File size alone might be a clue.

But an up sampled 44.1kHz file to 192kHz should be really hard to figure out unless you cheated and used a scope.
Your so clever...
Your condecending remarks make you look like a genius.

I do like that the launch of PONO upsets you as much as it does.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1320
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
But they're are two completely differently things...
Why not just compare 24/192 to 16/44.1?
As i said.

Thinking is hard.
Topic:
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