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Launch of Pono Studio Headphones
Old 21st March 2014
  #1261
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
You can also sell individual downloads if you want...
oh man i was about to agree with you until this:

Quote:
I still think an album is a more moving art form
as i said in an earlier post, the concept of the album is the result of technology, namely vinyl
Old 21st March 2014
  #1262
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
seriously?

the whole music industry still revolves on this idea that bands/artists need to put out albums

you are not legit until you issue an album
Because fans want a body of work. Music critics want a body of work.

Labels want to sell songs in multiples.

People buying singles sucks for record labels.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
But you often have no inclination to do that. I certainly never have.
But if you've paid for something (ten songs instead of one) you have the incentive to at least try and appreciate the other nine songs.
I mean this has just happened to me so many times it's not funny.
fine. i accept that from you

but i do indeed have the inclination to go for more if i want and i can do that instantly in the current climate

maybe you are still inclined to a former paradigm
Old 21st March 2014
  #1264
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
as i said in an earlier post, the concept of the album is the result of technology, namely vinyl
Isn't all art based on the canvas available at the time?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Never heard that before. The whole industry is based on single songs - aka iTunes, Beatport etc, etc…
.
not the whole industry, only the "current" industry

the outdated major label industry is another story
Old 21st March 2014
  #1266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
People buying singles sucks for record labels.
People buying singles put the Beatles on the U.S. map
Old 21st March 2014
  #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Isn't all art based on the canvas available at the time?
hmmm... i guess we can discuss that too

medium does indeed dictate a result...to a certain extent

but that's my point, isn't it? how much of it is art and how much mere technology?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1268
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
as i said in an earlier post, the concept of the album is the result of technology, namely vinyl
Good lord, man.

The idea of a collection of shorter music segments put together into a longer work as existed a LONG TIME. You ever hear of the concept of a symphony? How about an opera? A musical?

You could make an argument that the album is the result of technology, but it's not static. An "album" was really around 40 minutes or so due to the technology limits. Those limits no longer remain. Is it still the same thing?

I really don't understand the purpose of your rant. The 3 minute song is a limitation of radio and the 45. That still exists as a form that people still use.

There are NO RULES Dave. Do what you want to do, create your art. I don't understand the chip you have on your shoulder around the album... that's your issue. But why would you let it impact your work if you don't like the form? THEN DON'T RELEASE ALBUMS. What's the freakin' problem???
Old 21st March 2014
  #1269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
You ever hear of the concept of a symphony? How about an opera? A musical?
yes i have

Quote:
You could make an argument that the album is the result of technology, but it's not static. An "album" was really around 40 minutes or so due to the technology limits. Those limits no longer remain. Is it still the same thing?
i guess you missed some of my earlier posts

Quote:
The 3 minute song is a limitation of radio and the 45. That still exists as a form that people still use.
i don't think i can agree with that. why would radio place a limit specifically at 3 minutes?

Quote:
There are NO RULES Dave. Do what you want to do, create your art
.

i do what i want

Quote:
...why would you let it impact your work if you don't like the form? THEN DON'T RELEASE ALBUMS. What's the freakin' problem???
this is not about me
Old 21st March 2014
  #1270
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
hmmm... i guess we can discuss that too

medium does indeed dictate a result...to a certain extent

but that's my point, isn't it? how much of it is art and how much mere technology?
I think art "bends" to the technology or the canvas available.

I don't we disagree about how things happen or progress.

I just appreciate the way artists have catered to the technology or the canvas.

MTV is a great example. Some acts couldn't compete with a visual and others might not have existed without it.

It's not about better. It evolves.

But labels are still clinging to the album model as it helps them.

Same with artists. The bands that sell more albums tend to do better on tour.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1271
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
People buying singles put the Beatles on the U.S. map
That's how it started.

But how do people talk about the Beatles?

Based on their favorite song or by their favorite album?

And what happened to all the other acts during that time that only sold singles?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1272
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Casey's Avatar
 

Why do you apologize?



-Casey


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Old 21st March 2014
  #1273
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
I listen to very hi res files all the time.

Miles Davis at 192k

Classical

I love it
I have Kind Of Blue at 24/192. Stereo and Mono.
Love it.
I have to ask, do you think 24/192 sounds better to you than 16/44.1?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1274
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hey y'all

here's an interesting bit i hope interests you and lends itself to my argument...

if you search "Schubert leider" on Spotify you will find the length of his songs corresponds to the length of pop songs in the last 50 years
Old 21st March 2014
  #1275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
maybe you are still inclined to a former paradigm
Why do you persist on characterising someone with a slightly different opinion as old fashioned.
No, I'm not inclined to albums more than single songs. I'm just pointing out some clear negatives of the single song as the 'new paradigm'.

On The Beatles. I thought Ed Sullivan put them on the US map?

But anyway, you can't have it both ways. You claim the established labels are living in the past regarding single songs, then use an early 60's major label and major label band as an example of the power of single songs.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
I think art "bends" to the technology or the canvas available.
agreed!

Beethoven could not have written his piano sonatas on a harpsichord

Quote:
But labels are still clinging to the album model as it helps them.
and those labels that keep clinging will not be here in 2025

Quote:
Same with artists. The bands that sell more albums tend to do better on tour
but it's not the "albums" that sustain them, it's the individual songs
Old 21st March 2014
  #1277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Why do you persist on characterising someone with a slightly different opinion as old fashioned.
No, I'm not inclined to albums more than single songs. I'm just pointing out some clear negatives of the single song as the 'new paradigm'.
sorry!

i should clearly deny the idea rather than the person who holds to it

Quote:
On The Beatles. I thought Ed Sullivan put them on the US map?
Ed Sullivan was a reaction. if you really think about it, shows like that are behind the curve

Quote:
But anyway, you can't have it both ways. You claim the established labels are living in the past regarding single songs, then use an early 60's major label and major label band as an example of the power of single songs.
you got me there. i was wondering if anyone would catch that

but in the end it only emphasises my point. labels always push "albums" when their greatest success has been with singles
Old 21st March 2014
  #1278
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here's a thought on albums versus singles...

if you went up to a crowd of fans lined up for a live concert and asked "what do you want to hear tonight?" what do you think they would respond?

album title?

not!

song title?

absolutely!
Old 21st March 2014
  #1279
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Artists and labels have liked albums for a variety of reasons. A relatively small percentage of listeners prefer albums. Now, more singles are sold. OK.. so what?

The album, I suspect, will exist for a long time as a way for an artist to create a collection of songs that represent their vision. Listen to Beck's new album, it's a coherent collection of songs.

Whatever your problem with the album is Dave, I don't understand.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
That's how it started.

But how do people talk about the Beatles?

Based on their favorite song or by their favorite album?
admittedly, the Beatles made the "concept album" a phrase to be coined

but if you read biographies about people who worked with them (like George Martin's or Emerick's) you will see how "haphazard" their songwriting is in terms a conceptual approach
Old 21st March 2014
  #1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
here's a thought on albums versus singles...

if you went up to a crowd of fans lined up for a live concert and asked "what do you want to hear tonight?" what do you think they would respond?

album title?

not!

song title?

absolutely!
These two products are aimed squarely at fans right?

Classic Albums Live | The World's Greatest Classic Rock Albums - Note for Note, Cut for Cut
Amazon.com: Classic Album Documentaries on DVD
Old 21st March 2014
  #1282
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
Listen to Beck's new album, it's a coherent collection of songs.
i've been listening to it this last week and i like it

Quote:
Whatever your problem with the album is Dave, I don't understand.
it's pretty simple

as stated above, bands/artists shouldn't need to rely on releasing albums

a single or two every few months should suffice
Old 21st March 2014
  #1283
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Quote:
yes they are

by major labels looking to profit from their self-imposed paradigms
Old 21st March 2014
  #1284
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
as stated above, bands/artists shouldn't need to rely on releasing albums

a single or two every few months should suffice
Your entire premise is wrong. Artists don't need to rely on releasing albums.

End of discussion, you're just wrong.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1285
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarmenC View Post
I have Kind Of Blue at 24/192. Stereo and Mono.
Love it.
I have to ask, do you think 24/192 sounds better to you than 16/44.1?
Why don't you post 30 seconds of a really good section at 192k, 96k (up sampled to 192k) and 44.1kHz (up sampled to 192k)

Let's see if everyone hears it.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
Your entire premise is wrong. Artists don't need to rely on releasing albums.
so the whole cycle of write a long list of songs, record them, and tour/promote is a fantasy?
Old 21st March 2014
  #1287
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post
so the whole cycle of write a long list of songs, record them, and tour/promote is a fantasy?
No, i said they do not HAVE to. Many still CHOOSE to. Some do not.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1288
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave.R View Post

but it's not the "albums" that sustain them, it's the individual songs
The biggest tours are based on the biggest albums.

One hit wonders tend to disappear because they can't build a fan base.

Hit albums = big fan base.
Old 21st March 2014
  #1289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
One hit wonders tend to disappear because they can't build a fan base..
you only know they're one hit wonders long after the fact

Quote:
Hit albums = big fan base.
i would say a string of hit songs = big fan base
Old 21st March 2014
  #1290
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Hyder boy's Avatar
 

Singles are for the mass of asses, albums are for the connoisseur.
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