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Launch of Pono Studio Headphones
Old 29th July 2015
  #5371
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telecode's Avatar
 

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Retailers are getting rid of Fiio X3s to make room for the X5's I guess.

FiiO-Love music,love life,love FiiO!

Just putting it out there. Has anyone got or used one of these? Have you been able to make use of the device for professional use? Perhaps using a pair of high end monitoring headphones and trying to master and mix with it? It is any more useful than using an iPod or iPad device for hearing better quality audio?

I really like the idea of the expand-ability via microSD card.
Old 30th July 2015
  #5372
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I have an X1. The UI has some navigation issues, but if you can get past that, its an awesome player. so is the X3 from what i've heard, and great value. The inbuilt DAC is definitey good for professional equipment, I use it with my DT 880's all the time.
Old 25th August 2015
  #5373
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Neil Young’s Pono Struggles With Funding, Searches for New CEO

Quote:
Neil Young’s music tech startup Pono is struggling
with funding issues, which is slowing down the
company’s international expansion, the rock legend
revealed in a Facebook post. “We are trying to set
up stores in multiple countries and are restricted
by a lack off resources,” Young wrote, adding that
Pono wants to expand to Canada, the U.K. and
Germany: “As soon as we have the funds, those
stores will open. We wish it could be faster than
that.”.... He also said that running Pono “hasn’t
been easy.” Young has been serving as the company’s
official CEO ever since it parted ways with prior
CEO John Hamm a little over a year ago. The company
has been looking for a new CEO for some time. Said
Young: “We have no proven business leader at the
head of our company, but the search continues for
one who could do it to our liking and understand
what our goal is and how big it is. We are still
looking.”
Old 25th August 2015
  #5374
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I've got mine, and you can load stuff onto it just using the Finder. I think it's going to retain its usefulness whatever happens, but wish the Pono company the best in finding a proper CEO. It's silly to expect Neil to keep doing it.
Old 26th August 2015
  #5375
I have a Fiio X5, it is absolutely incredible sounding, after years on a Cowon J3. Mind blowingly good. Gives my Crookwood DAC and headphone amp a run for their money with HD600's, no joke. Ability to use as a portable high quality DAC & headphone amp is great. Can store up to 384GB (on 2 x internal 128GB Micro SD cards and one "On The Go" port with a 128GB card in a mini reader) at the moment, with ability for more storage when technology and firmware catches up.

Never heard the Pono though so can't compare.
Old 11th October 2015
  #5376
I've found a total of 3 people online who claim to have heard the pono that weren't blown away by it. And every one of them uses terms like snake oil and scam when describing it, with no basic understanding of what is even in the device.

It should be $800+ because it's a great DAC mated to fully discreet analog amp with negative feedback design, then a nice flexible output section and all open standards throughout. The shape is awesome, it can hold 192 GB onboard and play 24/192 files better than anything I've heard.

Almost everything you own instantly sounds better when mated with the PonoPlayer. Only the cheapest ear-buds will miss out on the upgrade your entire signal chain gets.

Musical enjoyment while listening is superb. Detail, depth, amazing blending of voice, amazingly detailed soundstage --- nice mixing rigs barely sound this good.

To carry that around in your pocket is addictive, and anyone listening to their phone in 2015 Is really missing out. PonoPlayer sounds 2x better than any CD player I've ever heard, which is 4x better than any mp3 player i've ever heard.

Yes those are scientifically accurate numbers ;-)
Old 11th October 2015
  #5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezraz View Post
I've found a total of 3 people online who claim to have heard the pono that weren't blown away by it. And every one of them uses terms like snake oil and scam when describing it, with no basic understanding of what is even in the device.

It should be $800+ because it's a great DAC mated to fully discreet analog amp with negative feedback design, then a nice flexible output section and all open standards throughout. The shape is awesome, it can hold 192 GB onboard and play 24/192 files better than anything I've heard.

Almost everything you own instantly sounds better when mated with the PonoPlayer. Only the cheapest ear-buds will miss out on the upgrade your entire signal chain gets.

Musical enjoyment while listening is superb. Detail, depth, amazing blending of voice, amazingly detailed soundstage --- nice mixing rigs barely sound this good.

To carry that around in your pocket is addictive, and anyone listening to their phone in 2015 Is really missing out. PonoPlayer sounds 2x better than any CD player I've ever heard, which is 4x better than any mp3 player i've ever heard.

Yes those are scientifically accurate numbers ;-)
I'd get one in a heartbeat if I could use it as a DAC via USB. I just don't listen to music all that much using a portable device like that and at home I've got Grace Design and Metric Halo conversion. But if I could also use it for mixing and editing PT files while traveling, boom, they'd have another sale.
Old 11th October 2015
  #5378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
I'd get one in a heartbeat if I could use it as a DAC via USB. I just don't listen to music all that much using a portable device like that and at home I've got Grace Design and Metric Halo conversion. But if I could also use it for mixing and editing PT files while traveling, boom, they'd have another sale.
Only Apoggee´s Sympony and Uaudio´s 16M use the same DAC. Any interface with the flagship ESS Sabre 1908 DAC at Pono´s price would be a dream.
Old 11th October 2015
  #5379
The UK ponomusic store will open in November.

Hopefully those of us interested in hi-res files won't have international release issues in our way to get the stuff we want.

And you won't have to have a pono to play the files back. (It seems)
Old 13th October 2015
  #5380
Gear Maniac
 
Decompress's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezraz View Post
It should be $800+ because it's a great DAC mated to fully discreet analog amp with negative feedback design, then a nice flexible output section and all open standards throughout. The shape is awesome, it can hold 192 GB onboard and play 24/192 files better than anything I've heard.

I think you meant to say that the amplifier circuit has NO negative feedback.
Old 1st November 2015
  #5381
Here for the gear
 

I've just recently purchased the Pono player and let me assure you, it is far from snake oil! For iPhone users you now have an app that allows you to playback 192/24 files on your iPhone. I personally have it on my iPhone 6. I've done a direct comparison of the iPhone 6 at 192/24 vs the Pono player and there is still no comparison. The Pono player wins hands down. The iPhone app is called Onkyo HF Player. It is initially free but in order to play 192/24 you will have to pay them $9.99 for the HD Player Pack. It works quite well on my iPhone 6. Here's a link to the app. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/onky...704139896?mt=8.
Old 28th June 2016
  #5382
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Not shocking.

- c
Old 28th June 2016
  #5383
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"Results showed a small but statistically significant ability of test subjects to discriminate high resolution content" that were slightly better than a coin flip, and while discussing one test "full details of their experiment, methodology, and data are not available"
Old 28th June 2016
  #5384
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Spinning this one is not gonna work.

- c
Old 28th June 2016
  #5385
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I skimmed through the PDF. Did they ever mention what sample rate converter was used to gather data for all these different tests that were done? Because that sample rate conversion is key.

I did read that one test between 24-bit versus 16 bit audio didn't even use a dithering filter which is pretty silly. And that makes me wonder whether they used real world music material which has about 20 decibels of dynamics at most or if test subjects listened to amplified reverb tails or somesuch.
Old 29th June 2016
  #5386
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
"Results showed a small but statistically significant ability of test subjects to discriminate high resolution content" that were slightly better than a coin flip, and while discussing one test "full details of their experiment, methodology, and data are not available"
Some of the used research isn't even about high-frequency hearing. (Like the 2007 Kunchur paper which is based on a misunderstanding of how sampling works). So we have a meta-analysis of some irrelevant and some rather questionable papers to conclude that even with this flawed data, we get results only marginally better than a coin flip. No surprises there.

Alistair
Old 29th June 2016
  #5387
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Spinning this one is not gonna work.

- c
You are right. It is already spinning too hard.

Alistair
Old 29th June 2016
  #5388
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

In my experience, 20 bit 48khz recording is about as high as you go in the PCM world to achieve the best you will hear. DSD is a different story.
Old 29th June 2016
  #5389
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"Results showed a small but statistically significant ability of test subjects to discriminate high resolution content, and this effect increased dramatically when test subjects received extensive training. This result was verified by a sensitivity analysis exploring different choices for the chosen studies and different analysis approaches. Potential biases in studies, effect of test methodology, experimental design, and choice of stimuli were also investigated. The overall conclusion is that the perceived fidelity of an audio recording and playback chain can be affected by operating beyond conventional resolution."

so this is saying that people can hear a difference with Hi-Res audio? But I thought there was no perceivable difference?

Last edited by michael cleary; 29th June 2016 at 08:19 PM..
Old 29th June 2016
  #5390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael cleary View Post
so this is saying that people can hear a difference with Hi-Res audio? But I thought there was no perceivable difference?
Note

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11988904-post5358.html

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11988951-post5359.html
Old 3rd July 2016
  #5391
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Again: not shocking.

- c
Old 3rd July 2016
  #5392
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Again: not shocking.

- c
not shocking, in fact rather boring. In the first place, these people at QMUL did not DO a study of their own! They performed a "meta-analysis" of other studies to reach their conclusion. Such studies are good for a headline, but are notoriously "flexible". Who knows if they "left out" some studies that went against their point? Who knows what "weight" they gave to different methodologies?

Even if they had done their own listening trials, and actually achieved the success rate claimed, it is certainly not impelling for me. And I am surely not going to run out and spend $399 on a player and then repurchase my entire record collection AGAIN for something that a meta-analysis says I might be able to "tell" with practice, slightly better than chance on jazz and classical music.

This is not what we were promised.

Sixty percent correct is hardly the "night and day" / "underwater" differences claimed by the Pono promotional materials. My objection forever has been the utter disregard for a sense of proportion to the actual 'improvement' claimed.

As we have been saying all along, the "improvements" get smaller and harder to distinguish with each doubling of the file size. If the 'improvement' is so subtle as to only show itself statistically, then we have a problem with the 'product'.
Old 4th July 2016
  #5393
Gear Nut
Pono Player sounds amazing, like everything made by Ayre.
A "desktop version" of the Pono is the new Ayre Codex, which sounds even more amazing.
Also, Ayre announced the QX-5 Twenty digital hub some days ago, which is like a Codex on steroids, I'm sure it sounds like heaven.

Is a shame that Ayre doesn't make pro audio equipment, they're one of the few real high end audio companies in the hifi market.
Old 4th July 2016
  #5394
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Prince View Post
Pono Player sounds amazing, like everything made by Ayre.
A "desktop version" of the Pono is the new Ayre Codex, which sounds even more amazing.
Also, Ayre announced the QX-5 Twenty digital hub some days ago, which is like a Codex on steroids, I'm sure it sounds like heaven.

Is a shame that Ayre doesn't make pro audio equipment, they're one of the few real high end audio companies in the hifi market.
Well if it sounds "amazing" then the whole question is settled, except for th part where it sound even MORE amazing.


I taught a course on the history of the DAW in which the students--neither musicians nor aspiring engineers--had to learn about sampling and sample rates. I showed them the Neil Young Pono video and they were all convinced, without hearing anything other than celebrity rockers raving about how great it sounds in Neil Young's car and that silly graphic about being underwater. That is, without hearing a thing, they were sure it was better.

Why is this? Slick promotional video, ok, but also people want to be amazed, and the point of education, or one of the points, is greater discernment, the ability to see more or better. People take a history class because they want to know or to discern more. So they were pre-disposed to something that promised them more and promised to reward greater attention.

I re-explained Nyquist-Shannon and the limits of human hearing etc. and showed them how to set up a test and told them to decide for themselves. I told them my experience was that I could not discern a difference, but hadn't devoted that much time to it, and they should test it themselves. I reminded them that skepticism is pretty much the starting point of any historical inquiry, and evidence is the foundation of argument. (The subject of the course was the long history of the DAW, not whether or not hi res audio sounds better)
Old 4th July 2016
  #5395
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
Again: not shocking.

- c
As has been pointed out, a meta-analysis is only as good as the things it analyzes. The study you reference doesn't do anything original, it just summarizes other work, much of which was done sloppily or using disparate methods
Old 4th July 2016
  #5396
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Prince View Post
Pono Player sounds amazing, like everything made by Ayre.
A "desktop version" of the Pono is the new Ayre Codex, which sounds even more amazing.
Also, Ayre announced the QX-5 Twenty digital hub some days ago, which is like a Codex on steroids, I'm sure it sounds like heaven.

Is a shame that Ayre doesn't make pro audio equipment, they're one of the few real high end audio companies in the hifi market.
It does sound amazing.

Anyone who could listen to this at 24/192 Pono and still walk away a non-believer in hi-res audio is someone I simply can't relate to.

I find it fascinating and ironic that all the most strident, folded-arms detractors are demanding empirical purity, but the only real empirical purity is to try it yourself.

F*ck studies. Listen.

- c
Old 4th July 2016
  #5397
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
It does sound amazing.

Anyone who could listen to this at 24/192 Pono and still walk away a non-believer in hi-res audio is someone I simply can't relate to.

I find it fascinating and ironic that all the most strident, folded-arms detractors are demanding empirical purity, but the only real empirical purity is to try it yourself.

F*ck studies. Listen.

- c
Best to listen with an understanding of human bias, to understand what you can really learn from listening...
Old 4th July 2016
  #5398
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skira's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
F*ck studies. Listen.
- c
Famous words of audiowoo 'audiophiles' who defend (the indefensible) $600-$8500 digital data or power cables.

In this thread we've now gone from pseudoscience and clutching onto results of mild effects from a non-peer-reviewed meta-analysis - to outright denial of science
Old 4th July 2016
  #5399
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I'll restate it: The ultimate empirical, scientific inquiry would be for you to try it yourself.

Do your own double-blind study if you have that kind of nerdy inclination and patience. Knock yourself out.

Buy a Pono (or Astell&Kern) and then return it if you don't like it.

I don't think you will.

- c
Old 4th July 2016
  #5400
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
I'll restate it: The ultimate empirical, scientific inquiry would be for you to try it yourself.

Do your own double-blind study if you have that kind of nerdy inclination and patience. Knock yourself out.

Buy a Pono (or Astell&Kern) and then return it if you don't like it.

I don't think you will.

- c
I don't think empirical means what you think it means..
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