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Launch of Pono Studio Headphones
Old 1st May 2014
  #4471
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixmixmix View Post
As John Galsworthy said, "Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and comedy for those who think".

When I deal with advertising claims, I think. So, yes, Pono is a comedy.
You are indeed good.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4472
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixmixmix View Post
Let's consider another point. How many of those participants were high on drugs while listening to Pono?
somebody should use CGI to dub in a Cheech-and-Chong-like cloud of smoke as people exit the car.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4473
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
somebody should use CGI to dub in a Cheech-and-Chong-like cloud of smoke as people exit the car.
Yeah, go for a ride with Neil and most music starts to sound under water......all a bit Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas....
Old 1st May 2014
  #4474
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Elvis Costello: I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4475
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisso
But the sheer persistence and energy invested over 15+ pages to discredit the people in the video just comes across as posters wanting it to fail, rather than simply being sceptical.
Your opinion. I think it "comes across" as them being skeptical! They would not have to repeat themselves if there were not so many "Believers" spouting nonsense trying to justify the, let's face it, at the very least improbable claims made for 96k, 192k and (cough cough), 384k

On the other side, there are people here who want it to succeed! They are even less "objective", they are not "wait and see" either. They want it succeed so bad they feel free to invent their own branch of science to explain "how it works" . Talk about persistence and energy invested.

A number of them even admit that it would be fine with them if it does not really do what they say it does. As long as people continue to think it does! Because they are counting on it to "change the way people listen to music", it justifies not only baloney and exaggeration, but outright falsehoods as well.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4476
mixmixmix
Guest
joeq, thanx for typing those thoughts out. Right on.

about the Cheech and Chong cloud of smoke. Smoking marijuana and other forms of recreational drugs are a personal choice. However, socially responsible person will refrain from judging newly emerging / celebrity pushed and endorced musical gadget while being intoxicated.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4477
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to establish that all of these celebs were stoned to at least a 95% confidence level, otherwise it doesn't count
Old 1st May 2014
  #4478
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to establish that all of these celebs were stoned to at least a 95% confidence level, otherwise it doesn't count
They were at least 95% stoned. They are ROCK STARS after all.

(kidding)
Old 1st May 2014
  #4479
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris93 View Post
When Hi-Res digital is compared to compressed lossy mp3, it will obviously be much better. When "Normal-Res" lossless 16/44.1 is compared to mp3 it too sounds much better.
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by le_fuzz View Post
wow...
Nothing wrong with lossless 16bit/44.1 CD quality.
Anything - ANYTHING - below that is noticeable.
It's been said before, but if you can ABX or blind test 320k MP3 to anything "higher", send your results to trustmeimascientist. I'm not saying you can't do it, but as far as I know, no one has done it yet. I can't do it. I think 320k MP3 is better than many people think. I always think 96k sounds better than 320k MP3 sighted, but always fail the ABX.

Update on “The Golden Ear Challenge”: Who Will Conquer Audio Mount Everest?
Old 1st May 2014
  #4480
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Timothy Lawler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sonya View Post
I want this thread to go on forever and ever and ever. *slips noose around neck*

- c
This thread has been fascinating in several ways. Seriously, thanks for starting it.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4481
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by walter88 View Post
It's been said before, but if you can ABX or blind test 320k MP3 to anything "higher", send your results to trustmeimascientist. I'm not saying you can't do it, but as far as I know, no one has done it yet. I can't do it. I think 320k MP3 is better than many people think. I always think 96k sounds better than 320k MP3 sighted, but always fail the ABX.

Update on “The Golden Ear Challenge”: Who Will Conquer Audio Mount Everest?
I have the same problem... I expected to be able to tell the difference in double blind testing, but I could not!
Old 1st May 2014
  #4482
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
I'm sorry, but you're going to have to establish that all of these celebs were stoned to at least a 95% confidence level, otherwise it doesn't count
heh
Old 1st May 2014
  #4483
Lives for gear
 
Ephi82's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
I just listened to Damn The Torpedo's on my AT's. My latest copy, check out the date I got it.

Damn that is a religious experience! So much better than any church.

I wish Pono played records.
I have the Blu Ray audio only version of this, which gives you a higher sampling rate (compared to CD) stereo as well as 2 x 5.1 mixes, one of which is DTS, and I think the other is Dolby, I like the DTS better.

I think that the magic is in the remastering and the remix, not in the sampling rate. It SOUNDS amazing!

Chris Bellman remastered the stereo mix and Ryan Ulyate remixed all the tracks for 5.1. (with Petty and Campbell approving, no doubt)

I "believe", but there is no freaking scientific freaking proof (as there were no certified experts from GearSlutz's esteemed arbiters of good sound on hand at the time to judge) that both the stereo and 5.1 remaster/ remixes sound quite a bit better than my old vinyl and redbook CD of the same recording.

I would LOVE to see Bellman and Ulyate weigh in what their thoughts are about this.

Any of you experts know there guys well enough to ask? Heck, the AE community must be pretty tight?

It is my "silly" and obviously "naive" opinion that great updated or new masters of recordings, combined with a better than IPOD standard of playback system like a "PONO", has a chance to sound a lot better and be successful.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4484
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Your opinion. I think it "comes across" as them being skeptical! They would not have to repeat themselves if there were not so many "Believers" spouting nonsense trying to justify the, let's face it, at the very least improbable claims made for 96k, 192k and (cough cough), 384k
l.
Which hasn't really been discussed for the last 15 pages.
It's just been one improbable excuse why someone in the video liked what they heard after another.
How many of them were high? Come on.
The video is a bit of fluff to me.
A bunch of people get in a car, emerge and say they like the sound. That's it. Nothing definitive, not the killer blow.
My point is it's interesting a large and diverse group allowed themselves to be filmed endorsing the product. It's interesting.
That they were ambushed, that they are greedy liars, that they are half deaf, that they were half stoned, are all claims much beneath the level of the 44.1khz vs 192khz debate. That's also interesting.
The same people quoting advanced scientific papers also think 'rock stars' are mostly half deaf and high.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4485
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
That they were ambushed, that they are greedy liars, that they are half deaf, that they were half stoned, are all claims much beneath the level of the 44.1khz vs 192khz debate. That's also interesting.
The same people quoting advanced scientific papers also think 'rock stars' are mostly half deaf and high.
Rock stars who tour and play a lot of live dates, by the nature of their work, would have more hearing loss than the average person. That kind of conjecture is logical. That doesn't actually MEAN anything specific, but it's an input, when people like me and others wonder why they would be a part of these videos.

In some ways, it's putting the artist in a more positive light... it's less cynical to suggest it was something off the cuff, or it's expectation bias, or different mastering compared to they are doing it for the money and it's a paid endorsement.

But we all know.. that we don't know.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4486
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
Rock stars who tour and play a lot of live dates, by the nature of their work, would have more hearing loss than the average person. That kind of conjecture is logical.
Really? The farmer next door to me is stone deaf. Years using machinery without protection. Audiologists say there has been an alarming increase recently in young people presenting with hearing damage due to the use of earbuds and club going.
I wear expensive, custom moulded ear protectors. the 'average person' doesn't.

The illogical thing is to demand the science is respected, then join in with ill informed conjecture about druggy 'rock stars' with hearing loss. I mean that's just jarring.

Quote:
.. it's less cynical to suggest it was something off the cuff, or it's expectation bias, or different mastering compared to they are doing it for the money and it's a paid endorsement.
Or they have found it sounds really good. You forgot that one.
Old 1st May 2014
  #4487
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Really? The farmer next door to me is stone deaf. Years using machinery without protection. Audiologists say there has been an alarming increase recently in young people presenting with hearing damage due to the use of earbuds and club going.
Indeed, there are groups of people who have similar issues.

If you are having trouble agreeing that rock stars by nature of the work have more hearing loss than the general public, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. There is a reason why there is a group called HEAR.

If your point is there are other groups where hearing loss is an occupational hazard, absolutely... but that doesn't change the point that rock stars are much more likely to have hearing loss than the general public.

Quote:
The illogical thing is to demand the science is respected, then join in with ill informed conjecture about druggy 'rock stars' with hearing loss. I mean that's just jarring.
The only thing jarring is how big you make this stuff out to be. It's just people having a conversation.

Quote:
Or they have found it sounds really good. You forgot that one.
Sometimes you are hopeless. I'm not going to even try to explain how that wasn't necessary to bring that up in the context of the point...
Old 1st May 2014
  #4488
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
The only thing jarring is how big you make this stuff out to be. It's just people having a conversation.
Would have been nice if it was 'just people having a conversation' when the sample rate claim was being debated.
Instead there were lots of and and it seemed one group of posters were insisting the factual science be respected and 'moronic' claims be rejected.
It's just jarring that the same group of posters will happily accept ill informed conjecture about the artists in the video.
I'm just asking that we be equally diligent about reducing the ill informed internet cliche from the debate.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4489
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Would have been nice if it was 'just people having a conversation' when the sample rate claim was being debated.
Instead there were lots of and and it seemed one sector of the posters were insisting the factual science be respected and 'moronic' claims be rejected.
Look, it's pretty simple. There have been scientific tests of high sample rate/bit depth audio. So far, it's pretty conclusive.

The rest of the talk is just talk. There are things that are known, and then conjecture.

Let's just say there have been enough facepalms thrown around in this thread to go around... well, except for me. I don't believe I've thrown the f-bomb.

Quote:
It's just jarring that the same sector will happily accept ill informed conjecture about the artists in the video.
I'm just asking that we be equally diligent about reducing the ill informed internet cliche from the debate.
There IS NO ill informed conjecture, because there is current no INFORMED conjecture you can use to counteract it.

In the absence of actual information, nothing can be proven wrong or right.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post



There IS NO ill informed conjecture, because there is current no INFORMED conjecture you can use to counteract it.

In the absence of actual information, nothing can be proven wrong or right.
We don't need conjecture.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4491
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post


Sometimes you are hopeless
Don't attack the person, right?
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4492
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projektk's Avatar
 

I respect the unique design however they could still use a triangle like dimension and make it thinner. Either way I hope it suceeds. I will not invest but I'm also not the only person in the world.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4493
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
We don't need conjecture.
This thread wouldn't exist if it weren't for conjecture.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4494
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Don't attack the person, right?
Hey, I'm hopeless too sometimes.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4495
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
This thread wouldn't exist if it weren't for conjecture.
Yes. And isn't conjecture a synonyme for hypothesis? And isn't hypothesis a required step if you're using the scientific method?
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4496
mixmixmix
Guest
An interesting article on Pono.

http://thequietus.com/articles/14724...-player-review
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4497
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
This article negates the fact that higher sample rates can have the effect of relaxing the listener.

Might be something which the car industry and insurance companies regard from a different angle.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4498
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
Yes. And isn't conjecture a synonyme for hypothesis? And isn't hypothesis a required step if you're using the scientific method?
A hypothesis should be testable; NUMS has spent the last 10-15 pages trying to justify his 'hypothesis' that the commentators in the promo video are not qualified to have a valid opinion about Pono...but he has not tested it or acknowledged the flaws which Chrisso has highlighted time after time in a patient and polite manner.
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4499
Gear Head
 
bandpass's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.computeraudiophile.com

You've heard all about it, now come hear it for yourself. Wednesday May 7, 2014 The Audio Salon in Los Angeles, CA will host Pono CEO John Hamm for a presentation about PonoMusic and the PonoPlayer, and a Q&A. John will bring a couple PonoPlayers for people to see and hear. Everyone in attendance will have a chance to judge Pono for themselves.

The event is scheduled for 5-10 PM. check out The Audio Salon for the location and contact information. In the interest of accommodating all guests please RSVP to [email protected] or (310) 863-0863.
Anyone going?
Old 2nd May 2014
  #4500
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
A hypothesis should be testable; NUMS has spent the last 10-15 pages trying to justify his 'hypothesis' that the commentators in the promo video are not qualified to have a valid opinion about Pono...but he has not tested it or acknowledged the flaws which Chrisso has highlighted time after time in a patient and polite manner.
Very interesting Arthur, that you would summarize my arguments so poorly... as a way of trying to insult me I presume? You have been here long enough and read enough of my posts to understand the full argument I am making. Bad form, Arthur.
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