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Sonimus Britson Console coming soon Saturation Plugins
Old 11th August 2014
  #811
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_04_04 View Post
I noticed a weird thing, I set up my grouping on Satson the way it was set up in the Britson YouTube video and after linking everything, I moved the trim on the master, yet I didn't see the trim move on the individual plugs, maybe I'm just used to how the linking works in VBC, or maybe I'm doing something wrong.. And advice?

I don't know if we are speaking about the same thing, but when I move trim on master group nothing happens to the channels as well... Im speaking about Satson, I don't own Britson
Old 11th August 2014
  #812
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_04_04 View Post
I noticed a weird thing, I set up my grouping on Satson the way it was set up in the Britson YouTube video and after linking everything, I moved the trim on the master, yet I didn't see the trim move on the individual plugs, maybe I'm just used to how the linking works in VBC, or maybe I'm doing something wrong.. And advice?
That's not how Grouping works on Sonimus plug-ins. You can only enable grouping on one Buss instance. This instance will control all Groups. As you can see there, in the side panel, each Group has a slider for Trim. Each slider works on its own Group. For example, you add a Buss instance in your Master Track and enable Grouping there. Then you add another Buss instance in your Vocals Group and assign this to "Group 1" and then Channel instances on each vocal track of that group (you also need to assign them to "Group 1"). When you move the Trim slider of "Group 1" in that first Buss instance you added to your Master Track, only instances assigned to that group will react. It's called Trim because that's what it is, it modifies gain according to each Channel instance Gain. Note that you'll hear an increase in gain unless you turn "Trims as drive" on. This will increase/decrease gain and internally each plug-in will compensate this. Gain knobs have nothing to do with Trim (in the example above, if one of those Channel instances in your vocals tracks has Gain at -4dB and then you set the Trim of that Group to -2dB, the result for that Channel will be -6dB).
Old 11th August 2014
  #813
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
That's not how Grouping works on Sonimus plug-ins. You can only enable grouping on one Buss instance. This instance will control all Groups. As you can see there, in the side panel, each Group has a slider for Trim. Each slider works on its own Group. For example, you add a Buss instance in your Master Track and enable Grouping there. Then you add another Buss instance in your Vocals Group and assign this to "Group 1" and then Channel instances on each vocal track of that group (you also need to assign them to "Group 1"). When you move the Trim slider of "Group 1" in that first Buss instance you added to your Master Track, only instances assigned to that group will react. It's called Trim because that's what it is, it modifies gain according to each Channel instance Gain. Note that you'll hear an increase in gain unless you turn "Trims as drive" on. This will increase/decrease gain and internally each plug-in will compensate this. Gain knobs have nothing to do with Trim (in the example above, if one of those Channel instances in your vocals tracks has Gain at -4dB and then you set the Trim of that Group to -2dB, the result for that Channel will be -6dB).
Shouldn't group 1 be your Master?
Old 11th August 2014
  #814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
That's not how Grouping works on Sonimus plug-ins. You can only enable grouping on one Buss instance. This instance will control all Groups. As you can see there, in the side panel, each Group has a slider for Trim. Each slider works on its own Group. For example, you add a Buss instance in your Master Track and enable Grouping there. Then you add another Buss instance in your Vocals Group and assign this to "Group 1" and then Channel instances on each vocal track of that group (you also need to assign them to "Group 1"). When you move the Trim slider of "Group 1" in that first Buss instance you added to your Master Track, only instances assigned to that group will react. It's called Trim because that's what it is, it modifies gain according to each Channel instance Gain. Note that you'll hear an increase in gain unless you turn "Trims as drive" on. This will increase/decrease gain and internally each plug-in will compensate this. Gain knobs have nothing to do with Trim (in the example above, if one of those Channel instances in your vocals tracks has Gain at -4dB and then you set the Trim of that Group to -2dB, the result for that Channel will be -6dB).
Thanks for the information, I set it up just like you described...so the trim that gets applied across the channel units happens internally? No reflection of that gain being applied on the actual GUI of the other plugins besides the master buss plugin?
Old 11th August 2014
  #815
Double post, damn buggy GS.
Old 11th August 2014
  #816
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotJimmyBuffet View Post
Shouldn't group 1 be your Master?
No, the Master instance shouldn't be assigned to any Group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_04_04 View Post
Thanks for the information, I set it up just like you described...so the trim that gets applied across the channel units happens internally? No reflection of that gain being applied on the actual GUI of the other plugins besides the master buss plugin?
Exactly, it happens internally.
Old 11th August 2014
  #817
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
No, the Master instance shouldn't be assigned to any Group.


In Sonimus' youtube tutorial, he assigns master instance to a group 1 (renamed to MASTER), scroll to 2:38 !

Old 11th August 2014
  #818
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
No, the Master instance shouldn't be assigned to any Group.



Exactly, it happens internally.
Not according to the official tutorial
Old 11th August 2014
  #819
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
In Sonimus' youtube tutorial, he assigns master instance to a group 1 (renamed to MASTER), scroll to 2:38 !

Yes but you're wasting a Group if you follow this approach. In fact, I don't see why would someone want to have a Group Master just to Trim that instance inserted in the Master Track. You can push that instance harder with any other Gain plug-in before (and compensate this afterwards). That's a waste, in my opinion. I'd rather have that instance as a global control and use all 8 groups on something else. If I need to push the Master harder I just use a gain plug-in before and that's it.
Old 11th August 2014
  #820
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Yes but you're wasting a Group if you follow this approach. In fact, I don't see why would someone want to have a Group Master just to Trim that instance inserted in the Master Track. You can push that instance harder with any other Gain plug-in before (and compensate this afterwards). That's a waste, in my opinion. I'd rather have that instance as a global control and use all 8 groups on something else. If I need to push the Master harder I just use a gain plug-in before and that's it.


Understand, one more thing, I asked in one of my posts above but no one replied.

Let's say I have group (aux) channels in my DAW, like DRUMS, MUSIC, VOCALS and FX. Do I have to put the BUSS instance on all of them is it necessary ? Or can I just control the global drive/trim of assigned groups via one BUSS instance that is on the master fader ? Do you understand me what I ask here ? I want to avoid using buss instances on all my groups, but I want to group my channels istances.

Also, where to send the ungrouped channel istances ? Do you leave them alone ungrouped like that ?
Old 11th August 2014
  #821
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanZoo View Post
Understand, one more thing, I asked in one of my posts above but no one replied.

Let's say I have group (aux) channels in my DAW, like DRUMS, MUSIC, VOCALS and FX. Do I have to put the BUSS instance on all of them is it necessary ? Or can I just control the global drive/trim of assigned groups via one BUSS instance that is on the master fader ? Do you understand me what I ask here ? I want to avoid using buss instances on all my groups, but I want to group my channels istances.

Also, where to send the ungrouped channel istances ? Do you leave them alone ungrouped like that ?
Well, nothing is necessary in music, we all have our ways to approach a song BUT if you're trying to emulate a signal path in a real console then I guess you'd have to use Buss instances on each group. In fact, my experience tells me this is where things get interesting because you can push Busses harder and get a sound out it (Channels instances add up but pushing a Buss instance is really nice if it works for the song). I have Buss instances on all my Groups: Singer X, Singer Y, Drums, Keyboards, Synths, percussion, etc., and pushing this instances gives me a "coherent sound" in that Group, it sounds more compact and as a whole. Of course, sometimes this doesn't work at all and you have to push faders down because it's "clouding" everything. I even group all my FX tracks (reverbs, delays, etc.) and put a Buss instance there and Channels on each FX track... a bit of saturation and "warmth" (hate those terms hehe) do a great job on reverbs and delays.
Old 11th August 2014
  #822
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JanZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Well, nothing is necessary in music, we all have our ways to approach a song BUT if you're trying to emulate a signal path in a real console then I guess you'd have to use Buss instances on each group. In fact, my experience tells me this is where things get interesting because you can push Busses harder and get a sound out it (Channels instances add up but pushing a Buss instance is really nice if it works for the song). I have Buss instances on all my Groups: Singer X, Singer Y, Drums, Keyboards, Synths, percussion, etc., and pushing this instances gives me a "coherent sound" in that Group, it sounds more compact and as a whole. Of course, sometimes this doesn't work at all and you have to push faders down because it's "clouding" everything. I even group all my FX tracks (reverbs, delays, etc.) and put a Buss instance there and Channels on each FX track... a bit of saturation and "warmth" (hate those terms hehe) do a great job on reverbs and delays.


Yeah, I did a mix today, and it was amazing how much the CHANNEL instances (on all channels especially on FX channels) and BUSS across all the busses did nice things to reverbs and delays, they are more prominent but not louder, wonderful...
Old 12th August 2014
  #823
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Paul Gypsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Well, nothing is necessary in music, we all have our ways to approach a song BUT if you're trying to emulate a signal path in a real console then I guess you'd have to use Buss instances on each group. In fact, my experience tells me this is where things get interesting because you can push Busses harder and get a sound out it (Channels instances add up but pushing a Buss instance is really nice if it works for the song). I have Buss instances on all my Groups: Singer X, Singer Y, Drums, Keyboards, Synths, percussion, etc., and pushing this instances gives me a "coherent sound" in that Group, it sounds more compact and as a whole. Of course, sometimes this doesn't work at all and you have to push faders down because it's "clouding" everything. I even group all my FX tracks (reverbs, delays, etc.) and put a Buss instance there and Channels on each FX track... a bit of saturation and "warmth" (hate those terms hehe) do a great job on reverbs and delays.
Hello there, First post here . I'm joining the discussion because I also find Britson great, it has improve my demo-mixes a whole lot.

I was just curious about how do you use Britson on the fx chain; Do you use the Channel to bring the FX at zero dbs and then put the buss? Or something different?

Also, what setting do you all use in your mix buss? I find that I really like the "Loudness" thing for heavy Rock, and the Flat setting for Softer stuff... Just wanderin'...
Cheers
Old 12th August 2014
  #824
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeljkom View Post
You should try it on you material with different buss programs.
I personaly like Satson, more so then VCC. It doesn't ruin the mix (less fake). I still own Satson but sold VCC.
But I still think MFC is class or more above all of them.

It's pain in the a*s to use it but it's worth it. At least for me.
Everything VCC I've heard just sounds like a joke. Like a caricature of what the track should sound like, like some weird Ironic processing so you and your friends can laugh and go, "I KNOW RIGHT?! Can you imagine if I tried to make it sound like that? LOL"
Old 12th August 2014
  #825
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gypsy View Post
Hello there, First post here . I'm joining the discussion because I also find Britson great, it has improve my demo-mixes a whole lot.

I was just curious about how do you use Britson on the fx chain; Do you use the Channel to bring the FX at zero dbs and then put the buss? Or something different?

Also, what setting do you all use in your mix buss? I find that I really like the "Loudness" thing for heavy Rock, and the Flat setting for Softer stuff... Just wanderin'...
Cheers
Tracks, with Britson Channel as the first insert>Busses, Britson Buss as first insert> Master Track Britson Buss as first insert.
Old 12th August 2014
  #826
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gypsy View Post
Hello there, First post here . I'm joining the discussion because I also find Britson great, it has improve my demo-mixes a whole lot.

I was just curious about how do you use Britson on the fx chain; Do you use the Channel to bring the FX at zero dbs and then put the buss? Or something different?

Also, what setting do you all use in your mix buss? I find that I really like the "Loudness" thing for heavy Rock, and the Flat setting for Softer stuff... Just wanderin'...
Cheers
I haven't been using Britson too much, I prefer Satson (most of the songs and albums I've been mixing lately work better with Satson). The workflow with both is similar, though. I do a lot of editing, automation, etc., before actually mixing and I tend to balance everything first using a dedicated VU Meter like VUMT from Klanghelm Audio. I try not to go beyond 0dBVU on individual tracks but I push Busses a lot (like +3dBVU or even pinned!). I insert all Busses, Channels and then evaluate which tracks or busses sound better with this or that level by Trimming groups (or individually using the Gain knob). I do not mix rock at all, that's just not my thing but maybe the workflow would be pretty similar.
Old 12th August 2014
  #827
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Paul Gypsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I haven't been using Britson too much, I prefer Satson (most of the songs and albums I've been mixing lately work better with Satson). The workflow with both is similar, though. I do a lot of editing, automation, etc., before actually mixing and I tend to balance everything first using a dedicated VU Meter like VUMT from Klanghelm Audio. I try not to go beyond 0dBVU on individual tracks but I push Busses a lot (like +3dBVU or even pinned!). I insert all Busses, Channels and then evaluate which tracks or busses sound better with this or that level by Trimming groups (or individually using the Gain knob). I do not mix rock at all, that's just not my thing but maybe the workflow would be pretty similar.
I guess I need to experiment a lot more pushing the Busses to see how it sound...Thanks for your explanation.
Old 14th August 2014
  #828
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Britson is a top-notch channel saturator. If you turn on output compensation and adjust gain it will quickly help you make a track sit in the mix, especially vocals and drums. Obviously not everything benefits from it. But in combination with the lo filter it can really be effective on kick. It has a whole different feeling than VCC. When it works, it just seems very musical.

I don't normally use channel emulations on the master buss. But for people who prefer that sound, I think Britson will have its place and be effective on certain tunes and styles. All in all, I think it's a good deal for $40 and worth having in your tool kit.

One more thing: it sounds much better on the master buss at 96 kHz than at 44.1 kHz. I think it would benefit from having a 2x or 4x oversampling option, especially for people who work at 44.1 and 48.
Old 14th August 2014
  #829
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If I install the Satson update will it screw up all my previous projects using Satson?

I'm scared to install it in case I lose 3 years worth of work!
Old 14th August 2014
  #830
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Electric Sugar's Avatar
If I install the Satson update will it screw up all my previous projects using Satson?

I'm scared to install it in case I lose 3 years worth of work!
Old 14th August 2014
  #831
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
If you turn on output compensation and adjust gain it will quickly help you make a track sit in the mix.
Output compensation?
Old 14th August 2014
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
Output compensation?
From the manual:

Clicking on “Britson Channel” logo area provides access to back panel controls.
? OUTPUT COMPENSATION: Automatically attenuates (reduces) output as you increase the GAIN, effectively transforming the gain knob into a “drive” knob
Old 14th August 2014
  #833
SEA
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So has anyone AB'd a mix using the Britson to the VCC?

If so, is there a noticeable difference between the two?
Old 14th August 2014
  #834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsBot View Post
From the manual:

Clicking on “Britson Channel” logo area provides access to back panel controls.
? OUTPUT COMPENSATION: Automatically attenuates (reduces) output as you increase the GAIN, effectively transforming the gain knob into a “drive” knob
Thanks! guess I better rtfm
Old 15th August 2014
  #835
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Sugar View Post
If I install the Satson update will it screw up all my previous projects using Satson?

I'm scared to install it in case I lose 3 years worth of work!
It's safe. Yesterday I recalled a 2013 project for a remix and all Satson instances were recalled correctly as well as their values/parameters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA View Post
So has anyone AB'd a mix using the Britson to the VCC?

If so, is there a noticeable difference between the two?
Yes, I have. After purchasing Satin I ran a few tests to compare both and Satson won. Simply because it retains what Satin adds and rounds up things really nice with it. I love VCC but I must admit I haven't used it lately.
Old 15th August 2014
  #836
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Red Black's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Sugar View Post
If I install the Satson update will it screw up all my previous projects using Satson?

I'm scared to install it in case I lose 3 years worth of work!
That won't happen. Just make a copy of the 1.2 DLL files (or whatever format you use) before you install the new versions. If version 1.3 doesn't remember your settings when you load your existing projects just close the project in question (don't save), restore the old DLL (or whatever) files and you're all good again!

Sonimus don't seem to offer the older installers in the user area as some developers do. Regardless of whether a developer does this or not I keep every copy of every installer from every version of every plug-in and/or virtual instrument I've ever bought... I also have these backed up in 2 places... I also have my actual installed plug-in directories backed up in 2 places.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
It's safe. Yesterday I recalled a 2013 project for a remix and all Satson instances were recalled correctly as well as their values/parameters.
For what it's worth I'm back on 1.2.. 1.3 lost my settings in each DAW I tried...
Old 15th August 2014
  #837
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Mercado_Negro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Black View Post
That won't happen. Just make a copy of the 1.2 DLL files (or whatever format you use) before you install the new versions. If version 1.3 doesn't remember your settings when you load your existing projects just close the project in question (don't save), restore the old DLL (or whatever) files and you're all good again!

Sonimus don't seem to offer the older installers in the user area as some developers do. Regardless of whether a developer does this or not I keep every copy of every installer from every version of every plug-in and/or virtual instrument I've ever bought... I also have these backed up in 2 places... I also have my actual installed plug-in directories backed up in 2 places.




For what it's worth I'm back on 1.2.. 1.3 lost my settings in each DAW I tried...
That's good advice. It's worked fine on my end but keeping older versions around in case something goes wrong is the best way to avoid problems.
Old 15th August 2014
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Black View Post
That won't happen. Just make a copy of the 1.2 DLL files (or whatever format you use) before you install the new versions. If version 1.3 doesn't remember your settings when you load your existing projects just close the project in question (don't save), restore the old DLL (or whatever) files and you're all good again!

For what it's worth I'm back on 1.2.. 1.3 lost my settings in each DAW I tried...
Thanks, I will try it that way and see what happens.

If it doesn't work, I guess that means no grouping for me :(
Old 15th August 2014
  #839
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Sugar View Post
Thanks, I will try it that way and see what happens.

If it doesn't work, I guess that means no grouping for me :(
Honestly it's nothing that special and probably the most useless function of this plug. Not that its useless, just compared to everything else on the plug, its the most 'whatever' feature
Old 16th August 2014
  #840
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JanZoo's Avatar
Right now, with grouping implemented, Satson is the best console emulation , hands down. Don't have Britson though, but I will buy it these days soon.
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