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Messe 2014: RME announces Fireface 802 Audio Interfaces
Old 12th March 2014
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

quite ugly...
Old 12th March 2014
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth View Post
The point of TB is PCIe level round trip latency (roughly half that of FW/USB). Sadly no one has achieved it yet. Ludicrous the amount of RTL people will tolerate these days because they don't know any better. RME provides TotalMix FX as a workaround for those that don't tolerate the latency...
It isn't quite as trivial as you think. The Apollo Twin which is thunderbolt based still can't quite beat RME in terms of low latency performance. For low channels counts USB is very efficient.

Latency is not an issue for the majority of RME users. I know there are some extremists out there who wish there was zero latency but the truth is the human brain is fully capable of adjusting for small amounts of latency. Even live musicians in concert halls have to deal with a few ms of latency.
Old 12th March 2014
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
Nice, but still no high end unit from RME to compete with the Lyra 1, HiLo, etc...?
I think that you are over looking the RME Micstasy. Mindblowed sound and features.
Old 12th March 2014
  #34
@miscend

RME drivers are exceptional. Nothing I said was intended as trivial and you reiterated my exact point. Frankly, if I can't get sub 3ms *RTL* at 44.1k it's a no go.

Concert hall performers don't hear the direct sound blended with ambient. That's where the problem lies, and our brain CAN'T compensate for that, but this is not the thread for that.

TotalMix is exceptional, and perfectly fills the gap.
Old 12th March 2014
  #35
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Alright, any idea about price yet???? Cuz i'm gearing myself between this RME versus the new Antelope Zen ;-)
Old 12th March 2014
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
It isn't quite as trivial as you think. The Apollo Twin which is thunderbolt based still can't quite beat RME in terms of low latency performance. For low channels counts USB is very efficient.

Latency is not an issue for the majority of RME users. I know there are some extremists out there who wish there was zero latency but the truth is the human brain is fully capable of adjusting for small amounts of latency. Even live musicians in concert halls have to deal with a few ms of latency.
For high channel counts usb is fine too..

The MADIface usb is easily capable of 3ms in to out without taxing the host computer too much. This is low enough to use for plug-ins on in-ear mixes.

RME makes the best drivers in the world I think.
Old 12th March 2014
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
RME makes the best drivers in the world I think.
They do & have proven thru out the years. RME drivers unmatched & never fail period.
Old 13th March 2014
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I think that you are over looking the RME Micstasy. Mindblowed sound and features.
That much bigger I believe (8X8, + 8 pres's). I was expecting a high end 2 in, 2 out, with 1 or 2 pre's, maybe built around the QS platform, for around maybe $1.5k
Old 13th March 2014
  #39
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Does anybody know roughly how long RME like to spill the beans on the price of soon to launch material?
Old 13th March 2014
  #40
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Cheap digital is never good digital.
Old 13th March 2014
  #41
Here for the gear
Looks like the price is £1350

Found it here: RME Fireface 802 USB/Firewire Audio Interface | Absolute Music
Old 13th March 2014
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
The MADIface usb is easily capable of 3ms in to out without taxing the host computer too much.
I don't think <3ms is possible with USB.

32 buffers in and out = 1.45ms
Lowest in out USB buffer = 2*1ms = 2ms
Then lets not forget A/D D/A
lowest total = 3.45ms + A/D + D/A

https://www.presonus.com/community/L...-Audio-Latency

This is why total mix is there :-)

The grab for TB is access to PCIe bus that in a good driver virtually eliminates the 2ms USB overhead. Now it is literally the A/D D/A conversion + DAW buffer. Best mark to date is HDN with AVID I/O at 96/64 = 1.7ms. I would really like to see the Aurora TB solution at 96/64 and 44.1/32 - should be very close to this - maybe better.
Old 13th March 2014
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisonthebrink View Post

1350 (GBP - Pound) almost same price as the Antelope - Zen . Around 2200$ US. 200$ less then the Zen (although Antelope seems to have a few extra features if i'm not mistaking).
Old 13th March 2014
  #44
Here for the gear
1599 euro seems quite ok. but not that far from ufx right?

Musikmesse 2014: RME Fireface 802 - YouTube
Old 13th March 2014
  #45
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Arksun's Avatar
Damn, was looking at possibly getting the UFX at some point this year, then this comes along with very similar spec but £200 cheaper. Interesting.
Old 13th March 2014
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
That much bigger I believe (8X8, + 8 pres's). I was expecting a high end 2 in, 2 out, with 1 or 2 pre's, maybe built around the QS platform, for around maybe $1.5k
aren't you basically describing the UCX?
Old 15th March 2014
  #47
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UCX (though just half rack) is still 8 X 8. For my uses, I'd prefer 2 X 2, but much better quality. Surprised RME has nothing in this sector. Must not be many $ in it.
Old 15th March 2014
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
I don't think <3ms is possible with USB.

32 buffers in and out = 1.45ms
Lowest in out USB buffer = 2*1ms = 2ms
Then lets not forget A/D D/A
lowest total = 3.45ms + A/D + D/A

https://www.presonus.com/community/L...-Audio-Latency

This is why total mix is there :-)

The grab for TB is access to PCIe bus that in a good driver virtually eliminates the 2ms USB overhead. Now it is literally the A/D D/A conversion + DAW buffer. Best mark to date is HDN with AVID I/O at 96/64 = 1.7ms. I would really like to see the Aurora TB solution at 96/64 and 44.1/32 - should be very close to this - maybe better.


Well anywayyy, low enough to use for in-ear mixes...
Old 15th March 2014
  #49
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Mats H's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
Nice, but still no high end unit from RME to compete with the Lyra 1, HiLo, etc...?
Why are you complaining in a forum about this company not producing an entirely different product from what is just released instead of contacting them directly?

RME has a unit called Babyface, which is already a very good 2 channel A/D and 4 channel D/A. It's immensely useful on it's own. If you connect a very high end 2 channel AD/DA, you get basically what you want.

For instance in my world I'd be extremely limited by only having 2 channels. I use mine with a Prism Dream AD OR 8 channels of other manufacturers' A/D. It's a modular setup.
Old 16th March 2014
  #50
They have a line of "high end" products...pricewise very expensive.
Also look at the new MADIface XT...
Old 16th March 2014
  #51
Gear Addict
 

RME is 2 years late !!! No thunderbolt ! you can't do chaining: interface--->hard drive etc ...
TB Pcie drivers are better than firewire or usb 2 for general workflow.
Old 16th March 2014
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefrançais View Post
RME is 2 years late !!! No thunderbolt ! you can't do chaining: interface--->hard drive etc ...
TB Pcie drivers are better than firewire or usb 2 for general workflow.
Their lead engineer said at musikmesse: That there is nothing to gain from firewire 800/ thunderbolt for audio latency. The customer would pay for nothing than marketing.
Old 16th March 2014
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats H View Post
Why are you complaining in a forum about this company not producing an entirely different product from what is just released instead of contacting them directly?
1. I'm not complaining
2. Maybe I did contact them, but here I'm discussing (this is a forum, right?)
3. 2X2 is too small for you? We have different uses...
Old 16th March 2014
  #54
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Mats H's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
1. I'm not complaining
2. Maybe I did contact them, but here I'm discussing (this is a forum, right?)
3. 2X2 is too small for you? We have different uses...
I thought it was the wrong place to comment in this thread about a possible product that hasn't been announced, as it has nothing to do with this interface. And my understanding is that RME has never aimed at the luxury audiophile 2 channel market with their gear. They make high quality stuff for the working professional who need flexibility and interoperability with all sorts of gear. Btw they do make the ADI-2.

It's basically like complaining to Mackie in a thread on a forum that they don't visit, about a current 16 channel mixer and why they can't make hi end single channel audiophile preamps. Wasted space. Just my point of view.

There are several 2 channel units available from other manufacturers, why not get one of those?
Old 16th March 2014
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
[...]Thunderbolt is rather pointless for audio unless the channel count reaches into the hundreds, and when it does, usb3 is a more universal implementation on both MAC and PC, and will be probably long after Thunderbolt goes the way of firewire. Thunderbolt remains a gimmick in the audio world at this point.[...]
Sorry but I have to disagree. I see in thunderbolt the following advantages.

a) higher transfer speed reduces time/latency for transmission of data between recording device and PC

b) good / performant alternative to a PCIe based card

c) keeps the flexibility to connect the interface to different computer via cable

Thunderbolt would offer RME possibilities to write an own communitcation protocol which is completely independend of the USB protocol stack. The USB code in a computer is complex and CPU intensive as USB is a general purpose interface for connecting dumb devices.

I know that RME uses only portion of USB and uses an own optimized communication protocol, but some of the problems of USB remain. Not limited to but especially on Laptops the serial Bus is often shared between different devices which is not so beneficial for recording audio.

With thunderbolt I see there a chance for further optimize drivers so that an external recording interface might come very close to the performance of a PCIe card.

Don't forget, that nowadays in a PC the transfer of data is being done serial and optimized for throughput, but not for latency! On the PCI bus we had still hardware interrupts. On the PCIe bus the signalling is being done in form of data.

So a high transmission speed is cruicial to have enough headroom for the mix of audio data with near realtime demands and other bulk traffic.
Old 16th March 2014
  #56
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huub's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetube View Post
Sorry but I have to disagree. I see in thunderbolt the following advantages.

a) higher transfer speed reduces time/latency for transmission of data between recording device and PC

b) good / performant alternative to a PCIe based card

c) keeps the flexibility to connect the interface to different computer via cable

Thunderbolt would offer RME possibilities to write an own communitcation protocol which is completely independend of the USB protocol stack. The USB code in a computer is complex and CPU intensive as USB is a general purpose interface for connecting dumb devices.

I know that RME uses only portion of USB and uses an own optimized communication protocol, but some of the problems of USB remain. Not limited to but especially on Laptops the serial Bus is often shared between different devices which is not so beneficial for recording audio.

With thunderbolt I see there a chance for further optimize drivers so that an external recording interface might come very close to the performance of a PCIe card.

Don't forget, that nowadays in a PC the transfer of data is being done serial and optimized for throughput, but not for latency! On the PCI bus we had still hardware interrupts. On the PCIe bus the signalling is being done in form of data.

So a high transmission speed is cruicial to have enough headroom for the mix of audio data with near realtime demands and other bulk traffic.
Possibly you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist,
RME have made a 64 channel MADI interface on USB2 even! I use this device daily for live broadcast with super low latency.
I'm not sure if they need thunderbolt at all?

I personally think RME really really know what they're doing.
This doesn't mean that they can stop listening to what the market wants, but I'm really happy with what they deliver.
Old 16th March 2014
  #57
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Mats H's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Possibly you're looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist,
RME have made a 64 channel MADI interface on USB2 even! I use this device daily for live broadcast with super low latency.
I'm not sure if they need thunderbolt at all?

I personally think RME really really know what they're doing.
This doesn't mean that they can stop listening to what the market wants, but I'm really happy with what they deliver.
Word. I've used my 30 input/output Fireface UFX over USB since it came out on the market, sometimes at low latencies, sometimes at higher buffers... with a bunch of different computers, 7 years old and newer. It never lets me down. I've never even found a reason to connect the Firewire cable. By utilizing USB, one can in theory use it with all computers made the last 10 years. And even with the Ipad.

If one needs more channels, just connect the Babyface for 40 inputs and 42 outputs. For even more inputs, the MADIface XT will be my next interface. RME knows their stuff.

Do check out their forum, it's full of useful information.
Old 17th March 2014
  #58
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RME going cheap...

I'm sure it sounds decent and has good drivers, but looks to me like RME are going cheap. Clearly a cut down version of the UFX and ... still hanging onto Firewire, which is on its way out, and USB 2

These points are not a bad thing for a product per se, but I just hope that its not a sign of things to come. Cost-cutting in one area is often accompanied by cost-cutting in other areas. I bet that many of the components inside are cheaper versions than those in the UFX too.

Not hating RME, just hope they don't fall victim to supplying the masses and forgetting about the quality that made them well-respected in the first place.

Anyway, looking forward to a review.
Old 17th March 2014
  #59
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laboso's Avatar
 

I wonder who will fork out 1600 euros for this and pass on the UFX, for a price difference of 300€... Dunno how the pres and converters differ, but the display alone on the UFX is something I appreciate more and more... Really useful and readable while tracking, so you dont have to call up Totalmix the whole time to control spikes and general level... especially when used live or working with lots of synths...
Old 17th March 2014
  #60
Here for the gear
the micpres are one thing, but i am qurious about the other converters and how they differs with the ufx.
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